All Blacks 2025
-
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
Ruthless is a requirement, but you can be hard without being an arsehole mate. Look at all our recent greats.
Like Retallick & Coles? The standards shift depending on who the player is. In reality people like/dislike certain players and they give a pass to players they like
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
Ruthless is a requirement, but you can be hard without being an arsehole mate. Look at all our recent greats.
Like Retallick & Coles? The standards shift depending on who the player is. In reality people like/dislike certain players and they give a pass to players they like
I don't think Retallick. Coles sure.
Not whitelock, not mccaw, not read, not 3xsmiths, not nonu etc. -
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
Ruthless is a requirement, but you can be hard without being an arsehole mate. Look at all our recent greats.
Like Retallick & Coles? The standards shift depending on who the player is. In reality people like/dislike certain players and they give a pass to players they like
I don't think Retallick. Coles sure.
Not whitelock, not mccaw, not read, not 3xsmiths, not nonu etc.@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't think Retallick
He was a shit. Whether or not I cared depended on what jersey he wore
-
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life What gets to me most is the lack of ambition with the current custodians of the Black Jersey. There seems to be a belief in AB HQ that if we are third or fourth in the world and hold onto the Bledisloe Cup then that's alright. Bugger that!
Our coaches have lost their belief in polishing rough diamonds into world class players, our administrators seem content to play second fiddle to the Springboks, our players enjoy being legends in their own small country rather than global superstars.
It won't be too long until the fans lose their passion too.
I think a lot of damage has already been done and the rubicon has been crossed.
We have been far too nice on and off the field since 2015, overly embracing the social media age and trying to Harlem Globetrotify the Allblacks with complacent exhibition matches in Chicago, San Diego and Japan.
There should have been blue murder cried after the Lions series in 2017 and similarly during the Irish series in 2022.
We have milquetoast players, coaches, pundits and administrators. Even Robinson didn’t have the bollocks to sack Foster. A lack of ruthlessness from the top down.
The same under performers racking up cap after cap after cap.
Meanwhile Rassie has been bleating about everything, copping bans (a means that justifies his end) acting the maggot with water carriers, strategic injuries, traffic lights, bomb squads and questionable use of the HIA system. All of this will be forgotten in the annals of time. It will show Lions winning coach and two time World Cup winner in the record books. Conversation ended.
He has been ruthless with his squad too, hooking the likes of Libbock before half time in a World Cup game.
His forwards are jagged elbowed brutes who all pile in at the first sign of a scuffle.
We have a bunch of selfie taking, “chur bro”, “I’d like to thank the lord above” (after we have been spanked) players who just want to be everyone’s mates.
Bar Rieko Ioane.
He’s no centre but he knows his fucking assignment as an Allblack and a competitor.
Look at Bundee Aki and James Lowe. Two mouthpieces who are in the middle of everything.
If they had stayed in NZ, they would have ended up just like the rest of our soy boys.
It’s cultural.
I’m only 40, wouldn’t consider myself a dinosaur yet, but dare I say it we need a few more fucking arseholes in the organisation from the top down.
i got a bit of a roasting when i pointed this out...but i was annoyed/surprised after the home loss to Ireland and Ardie coming into the press conference and when asked said they didnt know it was the first home loss and series loss to ireland, didnlt know the history etc, became very clear its a pay check for lots of these guys, theyre not rugby die hards like those of the past...and i cant help but think that feeds into this drop in passion
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2025:
didnlt know the history etc, became very clear its a pay check for lots of these guys, theyre not rugby die hards like those of the past...and i cant help but think that feeds into this drop in passion
I know what you are saying, but not sure it accurately sums 'them' up.
Ardie is a prime example, you can see he leaves everything out there, I don't think you can question his passion or drive, but it comes from a different place to the "It’s not about wearing this jersey, it’s about filling it." Kind of place we had seen previously
-
For all the wailing and gnashing of teeth, we're not thaaat far off. There were some pretty ordinary areas last year (loose forwards, backline as a whole) and a whole lot of variability in terms of performance (the high of Ireland away down to maybe the Argentina loss?) but over all we got close. We could have won both in SA (and probably should have won at least the first), and France away we lost by a point.
Yes the England games were all close and could have gone either way, and one Aussie game the same, but the flip side of that coin is those defeats above turn around.
It wouldn't take much to develop this side in to something formidable.
-
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2025:
didnlt know the history etc, became very clear its a pay check for lots of these guys, theyre not rugby die hards like those of the past...and i cant help but think that feeds into this drop in passion
I know what you are saying, but not sure it accurately sums 'them' up.
Ardie is a prime example, you can see he leaves everything out there, I don't think you can question his passion or drive, but it comes from a different place to the "It’s not about wearing this jersey, it’s about filling it." Kind of place we had seen previously
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2025:
didnlt know the history etc, became very clear its a pay check for lots of these guys, theyre not rugby die hards like those of the past...and i cant help but think that feeds into this drop in passion
I know what you are saying, but not sure it sums them up.
Ardie is a prime example, you can see he leaves everything out there, I don't think you can question his passion or drive, but it comes from a different place to the "It’s not about wearing this jersey, it’s about filling it." Kind of place we had seen previously
Ardie's motivation seems pretty heavily tied in with his religion. Nothing wrong with that of course. So long as it works.
-
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't think Retallick
He was a shit. Whether or not I cared depended on what jersey he wore
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't think Retallick
He was a shit. Whether or not I cared depended on what jersey he wore
Yeah, if you say so - but regardless you could make a long list of niggly fuckwits who have been beaten on the field by people who weren't. It's just not a requirement for success, and it's not what is making us lose.
-
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
I expect the 2025 squad to be the 2024 squad with maaaaybe some fiddling around the edges, and the test team to be the same as last year as well. That's kinda depressing really.
I think you'll be right on this. I expect most of us will be able to pick 90% of the squad.
But, I think there's a significant jump to test level from Super rugby, so most of the best prospects take time to get acclimatised - so there's a bit of disincentive to change.
But, more importantly, we never have to deal with any man-management issues associated with dropping a player. For example, if you were to drop Ardie - as many were advocating last year - you'd be feeling a bit sick right now if he'd signed a multi-million dollar contract to fuck off to Japan.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
I expect the 2025 squad to be the 2024 squad with maaaaybe some fiddling around the edges, and the test team to be the same as last year as well. That's kinda depressing really.
I think you'll be right on this. I expect most of us will be able to pick 90% of the squad.
But, I think there's a significant jump to test level from Super rugby, so most of the best prospects take time to get acclimatised - so there's a bit of disincentive to change.
But, more importantly, we never have to deal with any man-management issues associated with dropping a player. For example, if you were to drop Ardie - as many were advocating last year - you'd be feeling a bit sick right now if he'd signed a multi-million dollar contract to fuck off to Japan.
Maybe, possibly also hopeful as I think it might force the AB coaches to get balance in our backrow.
-
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't think Retallick
He was a shit. Whether or not I cared depended on what jersey he wore
Yeah, if you say so - but regardless you could make a long list of niggly fuckwits who have been beaten on the field by people who weren't. It's just not a requirement for success, and it's not what is making us lose.
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't think Retallick
He was a shit. Whether or not I cared depended on what jersey he wore
Yeah, if you say so - but regardless you could make a long list of niggly fuckwits who have been beaten on the field by people who weren't. It's just not a requirement for success, and it's not what is making us lose.
All of the teams that wo the RWC were niggly af.
-
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't think Retallick
He was a shit. Whether or not I cared depended on what jersey he wore
Yeah, if you say so - but regardless you could make a long list of niggly fuckwits who have been beaten on the field by people who weren't. It's just not a requirement for success, and it's not what is making us lose.
All of the teams that wo the RWC were niggly af.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't think Retallick
He was a shit. Whether or not I cared depended on what jersey he wore
Yeah, if you say so - but regardless you could make a long list of niggly fuckwits who have been beaten on the field by people who weren't. It's just not a requirement for success, and it's not what is making us lose.
All of the teams that wo the RWC were niggly af.
As per Duluth, all the teams that aren't us are niggly AF. I don't think they were more niggly in the years they won, we were just more irritated by them. Our winning teams weren't particularly niggly.
-
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
One of the best maulers around too on attack and defence.
and a workrate that is off the charts. Man he gets involved a lot - not always good outcomes, but his motor is massive
Yeah the workrate stats are interesting this year.
Locks Contact Involvements Per 80 Minutes ( Carries + Rucks + Tackles )
64.84 Zach Gallagher
58.89 Will Stodart
56.07 Isaia Walker-Leawere
54.02 Jamie Hannah
53.5 Cameron Suafoa
53.09 Fabian Holland
52.83 Caleb Delany
50.23 Josh Lord
49.83 Naitoa Ah Kuoi
49.45 Josh Beehre
48.99 Scott Barrett
47.3 Tupou Vaa'i
46.86 Patrick Tuipulotu
46.47 Antonio Shalfoon
43.36 Allan Craig
40.74 Mitchell DunsheaBased off theanalyst stats.
Of those guys, Holland would be the first actually playing 80 minutes maybe?
Yeah Holland,Barrett,Vai,Tuipulotu are the only ones playing 80 min consistently.
That matches what I've been seeing, the Dutchman has some motor, and the other 3 would all be targeting the international season. Pick him I reckon.
If he can put a few more kg on and keep the workrate he has a heap of potential. It's only really his emergence along with Vaai arguably outplaying Barrett last year which makes Barretts spot look anything less than rock solid.He's already 120kg isn't he? I think Holland should be there. Unfortunately it looks like Lord and Darry are going the way of Blackadder with their injuries.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
One of the best maulers around too on attack and defence.
and a workrate that is off the charts. Man he gets involved a lot - not always good outcomes, but his motor is massive
Yeah the workrate stats are interesting this year.
Locks Contact Involvements Per 80 Minutes ( Carries + Rucks + Tackles )
64.84 Zach Gallagher
58.89 Will Stodart
56.07 Isaia Walker-Leawere
54.02 Jamie Hannah
53.5 Cameron Suafoa
53.09 Fabian Holland
52.83 Caleb Delany
50.23 Josh Lord
49.83 Naitoa Ah Kuoi
49.45 Josh Beehre
48.99 Scott Barrett
47.3 Tupou Vaa'i
46.86 Patrick Tuipulotu
46.47 Antonio Shalfoon
43.36 Allan Craig
40.74 Mitchell DunsheaBased off theanalyst stats.
Of those guys, Holland would be the first actually playing 80 minutes maybe?
Yeah Holland,Barrett,Vai,Tuipulotu are the only ones playing 80 min consistently.
That matches what I've been seeing, the Dutchman has some motor, and the other 3 would all be targeting the international season. Pick him I reckon.
If he can put a few more kg on and keep the workrate he has a heap of potential. It's only really his emergence along with Vaai arguably outplaying Barrett last year which makes Barretts spot look anything less than rock solid.He's already 120kg isn't he? I think Holland should be there. Unfortunately it looks like Lord and Darry are going the way of Blackadder with their injuries.
Yeah - 124kg. He doesn't need more weight on his frame at his age. He will put weight on naturally as he gets older.
He derserves to be called up. He has huge potential and reminds me of of a young retallick with his high workrate
-
Blaming one player for losses to the best teams in the world is the height of absurdity.
There are people that just cannot seem to grasp the concept of a player improving over time, despite high profile examples like Nonu and Kaino (a 6!) who both clearly had the talent but started very slowly before becoming the worlds best (and arguably the best ever for those two).
The fact is Akira had come of age as a player. He had added bulk, tightened his game right up, and spent the last year of Super bitch slapping every other loosie in NZ around, including the Super final. The difference between him and Kaino is Kaino was persisted with by the coaches, and became the worlds best. Akira was not even considered for selection due to a personal beef / bias from our current coaches, so who knows what he could have achieved?
We are a small country with limited resources, it is incredibly frustrating that our coaches have just snubbed someone NZR has invested so much in over the years when they finally reach their potential. I am really surprised people aren't more up in arms about it, it's a ridiculous waste of a special talent.
Def agree with your premise on developing players over time (see Tupou Vaa'i). And while Akira was treated badly by Hansen but he had more opportunists than many under Foster but never quite kicked on.
Robertson and co. may have missed a trick last year with him, but we'll never know
-
Def agree with your premise on developing players over time (see Tupou Vaa'i). And while Akira was treated badly by Hansen but he had more opportunists than many under Foster but never quite kicked on.
Robertson and co. may have missed a trick last year with him, but we'll never know
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
Def agree with your premise on developing players over time (see Tupou Vaa'i). And while Akira was treated badly by Hansen but he had more opportunists than many under Foster but never quite kicked on.
Robertson and co. may have missed a trick last year with him, but we'll never know
And neither did Blackadder and Frizell yet one is an insta pick when fit and the other one is being courted constantly by the Tubby coach despite the fact he is in Japan and a shitty human.
-
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
Def agree with your premise on developing players over time (see Tupou Vaa'i). And while Akira was treated badly by Hansen but he had more opportunists than many under Foster but never quite kicked on.
Robertson and co. may have missed a trick last year with him, but we'll never know
And neither did Blackadder and Frizell yet one is an insta pick when fit and the other one is being courted constantly by the Tubby coach despite the fact he is in Japan and a shitty human.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
Def agree with your premise on developing players over time (see Tupou Vaa'i). And while Akira was treated badly by Hansen but he had more opportunists than many under Foster but never quite kicked on.
Robertson and co. may have missed a trick last year with him, but we'll never know
And neither did Blackadder and Frizell yet one is an insta pick when fit and the other one is being courted constantly by the Tubby coach despite the fact he is in Japan and a shitty human.
Akira was given about an equal chance by Foster vs Frizellm then they chose Frizell. He was going overseas before Robertson announced a squad. And apparently shitty humans is the way forward anyway.
Blackadder still hasn't played as many games for the ABs as Akira did - so you could argue he hasn't had as much of a chance yet.. -
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
Def agree with your premise on developing players over time (see Tupou Vaa'i). And while Akira was treated badly by Hansen but he had more opportunists than many under Foster but never quite kicked on.
Robertson and co. may have missed a trick last year with him, but we'll never know
And neither did Blackadder and Frizell yet one is an insta pick when fit and the other one is being courted constantly by the Tubby coach despite the fact he is in Japan and a shitty human.
Akira was given about an equal chance by Foster vs Frizellm then they chose Frizell. He was going overseas before Robertson announced a squad. And apparently shitty humans is the way forward anyway.
Blackadder still hasn't played as many games for the ABs as Akira did - so you could argue he hasn't had as much of a chance yet..@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
Blackadder still hasn't played as many games for the ABs as Akira did - so you could argue he hasn't had as much of a chance yet..
I don't really want to wade back into this argument but you've got to admit the fact that Blackadder has been injured a helleva lot more often than Akira really puts into question this whole 'he hasn't had as much of a chance' conclusion..
-
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
Blackadder still hasn't played as many games for the ABs as Akira did - so you could argue he hasn't had as much of a chance yet..
I don't really want to wade back into this argument but you've got to admit the fact that Blackadder has been injured a helleva lot more often than Akira really puts into question this whole 'he hasn't had as much of a chance' conclusion..
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
Blackadder still hasn't played as many games for the ABs as Akira did - so you could argue he hasn't had as much of a chance yet..
I don't really want to wade back into this argument but you've got to admit the fact that Blackadder has been injured a helleva lot more often than Akira really puts into question this whole 'he hasn't had as much of a chance' conclusion..
Well you can't prove yourself at test level without playing at test level, so obviously being injured prevents that opportunity.
Given how upset people are at Akira only getting 22 goes, they must be clamouring for Blackadder to get a lot more than his current 14? -
What are the chances of getting some of our older All Blacks like Aaron Smith back for another Super season?
@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2025:
What are the chances of getting some of our older All Blacks like Aaron Smith back for another Super season?
Pretty good, I imagine a certain team in the north wouldn't mind an experienced 9 with a good pass.
-
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
Blackadder still hasn't played as many games for the ABs as Akira did - so you could argue he hasn't had as much of a chance yet..
I don't really want to wade back into this argument but you've got to admit the fact that Blackadder has been injured a helleva lot more often than Akira really puts into question this whole 'he hasn't had as much of a chance' conclusion..
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
Blackadder still hasn't played as many games for the ABs as Akira did - so you could argue he hasn't had as much of a chance yet..
I don't really want to wade back into this argument but you've got to admit the fact that Blackadder has been injured a helleva lot more often than Akira really puts into question this whole 'he hasn't had as much of a chance' conclusion..
If you look at the current crop of players and the players over the last cycle most of them didn't start playing consistently better until after they had 20 or 30 odd tests under their belt. Richie Mo'unga for example was at about 30 tests by the end of the Irish series. He played through that period when we lost with the rest of those players.
Sure he produced some good games now and then but he also failed to take tests by the scruff of the neck on multiple occasions - he did that at Super level but not at test level.
Same with Jordie Barrett. It took him about 30 tests before he stopped the brain farts.
I've seen Newell get his head shoved up is us a couple of times against the South African scrum.
Havili is on 30 odd tests now and he's still getting chances even though he's thrown at least 3 intercepts for the ABs that led to tries.
Reece on multiple occasions has shown he is a liability under the highball and lacks pace.
So many players have gotten multiple chances despite their deficiencies.
-
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
Blackadder still hasn't played as many games for the ABs as Akira did - so you could argue he hasn't had as much of a chance yet..
I don't really want to wade back into this argument but you've got to admit the fact that Blackadder has been injured a helleva lot more often than Akira really puts into question this whole 'he hasn't had as much of a chance' conclusion..
Well you can't prove yourself at test level without playing at test level, so obviously being injured prevents that opportunity.
Given how upset people are at Akira only getting 22 goes, they must be clamouring for Blackadder to get a lot more than his current 14?@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
Blackadder still hasn't played as many games for the ABs as Akira did - so you could argue he hasn't had as much of a chance yet..
I don't really want to wade back into this argument but you've got to admit the fact that Blackadder has been injured a helleva lot more often than Akira really puts into question this whole 'he hasn't had as much of a chance' conclusion..
Well you can't prove yourself at test level without playing at test level, so obviously being injured prevents that opportunity.
Given how upset people are at Akira only getting 22 goes, they must be clamouring for Blackadder to get a lot more than his current 14?I'm not convinced you addressed what I posted but anyway Akira was up against Frizell, Blackadder if/when he was available was recently up against Sititi. Who of SF and WS do you think offered the stronger competition?
