2025 All Blacks v France series
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Last year in the media Jason Ryan claimed he had final say over all forward selections. Ryan really likes older players. He claimed blindsides start hitting their peak at 30 when talking about Frizell. So I think we may see Bower.
The South African team that won the last RWC was a bit of an anomaly in terms of age. They got around some of that age issue with innovative use of bench.
Prior to the 2023 RWC these were the key stats for RWC winning teams:
- Starting side has an average of 50 caps per player
- Starting side has an average of 5.5 years of test rugby
- 23 has at least 850 caps total
- At least 30% of the matchday squad in the 27-29 'prime years' range
So I'm not sold on Ryan's idea of age. Especially when we refuse to make proper use of the bench.
As Razor alluded to hopefully they really are open to using the bench better. I think the Crusaders have made good use of their bench this year and its been a key reason why they've improved.
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Last year in the media Jason Ryan claimed he had final say over all forward selections. Ryan really likes older players. He claimed blindsides start hitting their peak at 30 when talking about Frizell. So I think we may see Bower.
The South African team that won the last RWC was a bit of an anomaly in terms of age. They got around some of that age issue with innovative use of bench.
Prior to the 2023 RWC these were the key stats for RWC winning teams:
- Starting side has an average of 50 caps per player
- Starting side has an average of 5.5 years of test rugby
- 23 has at least 850 caps total
- At least 30% of the matchday squad in the 27-29 'prime years' range
So I'm not sold on Ryan's idea of age. Especially when we refuse to make proper use of the bench.
As Razor alluded to hopefully they really are open to using the bench better. I think the Crusaders have made good use of their bench this year and its been a key reason why they've improved.
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
He claimed blindsides start hitting their peak at 30 when talking about Frizell. So I think we may see Bower.
Weird example considering Bower isn’t a blindside…
But yes, I agree with you in that he will be selected. Razor likes comfort, he will be there.
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@Bovidae Picking Bower is nothing but a comfort selection which I wish Razor would stay away from. Time to find the next gen that will be in the black jersey for more than the next year or 2. Now is the time to do it.
@Landers92 said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@Bovidae Picking Bower is nothing but a comfort selection which I wish Razor would stay away from. Time to find the next gen that will be in the black jersey for more than the next year or 2. Now is the time to do it.
He says he wants to be braver. Time to show it
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A player like Bower might be third choice but with Williams now first choice, they have good cover in DeGroot and should invest in a less experienced player in the squad.
If there is an injury, Bower could come right in to start or go on the bench.
Sadly, the ABs need to operate a bit like a club team as we don't run an AB 15 for the full representative season, and they aren't a capture team, so we should be sending a message to players like Norris to stick around.
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@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
He claimed blindsides start hitting their peak at 30 when talking about Frizell. So I think we may see Bower.
Weird example considering Bower isn’t a blindside…
But yes, I agree with you in that he will be selected. Razor likes comfort, he will be there.
I would say his idea of prime age for prop will be even older than blindside. The point is he likes old players even though there is little to substantiate that idea that players over 30 are better.
Owen Franks, Sam Whitelock, and Brodie Retallick were all AB legends and I'm not convinced they were at their peak at 30+. In terms of AB years their best years were from 2011 to 2015.
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@akan004 said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
They will go with Bower but I would prefer Norris.
I am expecting Bower to be chosen as well, but it isn't a selection for the future as he'll be 35 in 2027. Norris will at least get an opportunity for the Māori.
@Bovidae said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@akan004 said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
They will go with Bower but I would prefer Norris.
I am expecting Bower to be chosen as well, but it isn't a selection for the future as he'll be 35 in 2027. Norris will at least get an opportunity for the Māori.
I'm expecting them to go the other way and pick Norris.
If Ofa was available, they'd pick him. So take the opportunity while he's not there to give a younger guy a run. George is very much a known quantity - won't let you down but unlikely to be a point of difference either. It's a bit tough on guy's like GB, but omelettes and broken eggs...
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@Bovidae said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@akan004 said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
They will go with Bower but I would prefer Norris.
I am expecting Bower to be chosen as well, but it isn't a selection for the future as he'll be 35 in 2027. Norris will at least get an opportunity for the Māori.
I'm expecting them to go the other way and pick Norris.
If Ofa was available, they'd pick him. So take the opportunity while he's not there to give a younger guy a run. George is very much a known quantity - won't let you down but unlikely to be a point of difference either. It's a bit tough on guy's like GB, but omelettes and broken eggs...
@Chris-B said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@Bovidae said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@akan004 said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
They will go with Bower but I would prefer Norris.
I am expecting Bower to be chosen as well, but it isn't a selection for the future as he'll be 35 in 2027. Norris will at least get an opportunity for the Māori.
I'm expecting them to go the other way and pick Norris.
If Ofa was available, they'd pick him. So take the opportunity while he's not there to give a younger guy a run. George is very much a known quantity - won't let you down but unlikely to be a point of difference either. It's a bit tough on guy's like GB, but omelettes and broken eggs...
Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Be brave Razor. Be brave
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@Bovidae said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@akan004 said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
They will go with Bower but I would prefer Norris.
I am expecting Bower to be chosen as well, but it isn't a selection for the future as he'll be 35 in 2027. Norris will at least get an opportunity for the Māori.
I'm expecting them to go the other way and pick Norris.
If Ofa was available, they'd pick him. So take the opportunity while he's not there to give a younger guy a run. George is very much a known quantity - won't let you down but unlikely to be a point of difference either. It's a bit tough on guy's like GB, but omelettes and broken eggs...
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I would say his idea of prime age for prop will be even older than blindside. The point is he likes old players even though there is little to substantiate that idea that players over 30 are better.
Owen Franks, Sam Whitelock, and Brodie Retallick were all AB legends and I'm not convinced they were at their peak at 30+. In terms of AB years their best years were from 2011 to 2015.
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
I would say his idea of prime age for prop will be even older than blindside. The point is he likes old players even though there is little to substantiate that idea that players over 30 are better.
Owen Franks, Sam Whitelock, and Brodie Retallick were all AB legends and I'm not convinced they were at their peak at 30+. In terms of AB years their best years were from 2011 to 2015.
Franks maybe but not Whitelock. He was at his best from 2014-2019 and still performing at a high level albeit in a different role in 22 and 23.
It’s all about balancing experience and youth and I agree with others that if both Williams and EdG are fit they go with a young buck (I’m in the Numia camp ahead of Norris). But if one of those two frontliners aren’t available you have an experienced prop in the squad (doesn’t have to make the 23 necessarily) like Bower in there. Just as important as the game itself is having the right guys in the training camp to hone their craft against. That’s not being conservative or focussed on “security” but about balance and using assets available to you.
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Clermont and Castres were knocked out of the Top 14 yesterday. So their players and those from La Rochelle, Pau, Montpellier, Racing Paris, Lyon, Stade Française, Perpignan and Vannes will be available for a 28 man squad to play an England XV next week and then tour NZ.
A further 14 players from the teams that lose the Semi Finals between Toulouse and Bayonne and between Bordeaux Begles and Toulon will be added before the squad reaches NZ.
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A player like Bower might be third choice but with Williams now first choice, they have good cover in DeGroot and should invest in a less experienced player in the squad.
If there is an injury, Bower could come right in to start or go on the bench.
Sadly, the ABs need to operate a bit like a club team as we don't run an AB 15 for the full representative season, and they aren't a capture team, so we should be sending a message to players like Norris to stick around.
@gt12 said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
A player like Bower might be third choice but with Williams now first choice, they have good cover in DeGroot and should invest in a less experienced player in the squad.
If there is an injury, Bower could come right in to start or go on the bench.
Sadly, the ABs also need to operate a bit like a club team as we don't run an AB 15 for the full representative season, and they aren't a capture team, so we should be sending a message to players like Norris to stick around.
I agree. Bower would be underwhelming. Get Norris in there
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Can Norris play both sides to a good level?
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Can Norris play both sides to a good level?
@nostrildamus said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Can Norris play both sides to a good level?
Only a LH.
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Can Norris play both sides to a good level?
@nostrildamus said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Can Norris play both sides to a good level?
Why does he need to play both sides well if you have two props on the bench?
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@nostrildamus said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Can Norris play both sides to a good level?
Why does he need to play both sides well if you have two props on the bench?
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@nostrildamus said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Can Norris play both sides to a good level?
Why does he need to play both sides well if you have two props on the bench?
Just curious.
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The French have named their squad to play an England XV next Saturday and then to be of the squad to tour New Zealand. 14 more players will be added to this squad next week.
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More details on that French Squad:
Forwards:
Props:
Demba Bamba, Racing, 27, 28 caps
Baptiste Erdocio, Montpellier, 25, Uncapped
Paul Mallez, Provence in Division 2, 24, Uncapped
Régis Montagne, ASM Clermont, 24, Uncapped
Rabah Slimani, Leinster, 35, 57 CapsHooker:
Gaëtan Barlot, Castres, 28, 9 caps
Guillaume Marchand, Lyon, 27, UncappedLocks:
Hugo Auradou, Pau, 21, 6 Caps.
Tyler Duguid, Montpellier, 24. Uncapped. Canadian.
Mickaël Guillard, Lyon, 24, 10 Caps.
Romain Taofifenua, Racing, 34, 54 caps (2:03!)
Théo William, Lyon, 24, UncappedBack Row:
Alexandre Fisher, ASM Clermont, 27, Uncapped
Lilian Trixerot, ASM Clermont, 23, 1 Cap
Jaco Von Tronder, Perpignan, 27, Uncapped, Saffa.
Cameron Woki, Racing, 26, 30 Caps, Plays Lock too.Lots of tall timber there. A set of forwards assembled to drive mauls.
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And the Backs:
Half Back:
Thibault Daubagna, Pau, 31, Uncapped
Baptiste Jauneau, Clermont, 21, 1 Cap
Nolann Le Garret, Racing, 23, 10 CapsFirst Five:
Léo Barré, Stade Française, 22, 7 Caps
Léo Berdeau, Lyon, 27, Uncapped
Antonie Hastoy, La Rochelle, 28, 7 CapsMidfield:
Aliverti Duguivalu, Perpignan, 27, Uncapped, Fijian
Gaël Fickou, Racing, 31, 94 Caps
Emilien Gaillleton, Pau, 21, 7 Caps, English
Théo Millet, Lyon, 27, UncappedWing:
Maël Moustin, Montpellier, 22, UncappedFull Back
Théo Attissogbe, Pau, 20, 5 Caps.
