2025 All Blacks v France series
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@mariner4life said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
If they were set on starting a lock at 6 they would have selected more than 4 of them.
Both Barrett and Vaai are proven failures at 6 at test level as well
I think there is a space there waiting for Parker. In the mean time they'll try to experiment with Vaaii. I personally think it's better than using another utility holding piece there, even if I don't like moving players from Super to international level.
Looking forward, if Holland transfers his game to the next level, Scooter's position could/should be in jeopardy.
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@mariner4life said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
If they were set on starting a lock at 6 they would have selected more than 4 of them.
Both Barrett and Vaai are proven failures at 6 at test level as well
I think there is a space there waiting for Parker. In the mean time they'll try to experiment with Vaaii. I personally think it's better than using another utility holding piece there, even if I don't like moving players from Super to international level.
Looking forward, if Holland transfers his game to the next level, Scooter's position could/should be in jeopardy.
@gt12 said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@mariner4life said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
If they were set on starting a lock at 6 they would have selected more than 4 of them.
Both Barrett and Vaai are proven failures at 6 at test level as well
I think there is a space there waiting for Parker. In the mean time they'll try to experiment with Vaaii. I personally think it's better than using another utility holding piece there, even if I don't like moving players from Super to international level.
Looking forward, if Holland transfers his game to the next level, *** Scooter's position could/should be in jeopardy.**
Barrett’s don’t get dropped they leave when they want to
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Can’t remember who it was that said it, but just a friendly reminder to the guy who said Tavatavanawai has a pot belly. He is now an All Black with a supposed pot belly. There’s still hope for us all
@Landers92 said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Can’t remember who it was that said it, but just a friendly reminder to the guy who said Tavatavanawai has a pot belly. He is now an All Black with a supposed pot belly. There’s still hope for us all
That was me. I wasn't against his selection btw. Just thought he might have a gut and the coaches might not like it.
Didn't realise it would be such a sensitive topic for forum members so my apologies.
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@Landers92 said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Can’t remember who it was that said it, but just a friendly reminder to the guy who said Tavatavanawai has a pot belly. He is now an All Black with a supposed pot belly. There’s still hope for us all
That was me. I wasn't against his selection btw. Just thought he might have a gut and the coaches might not like it.
Didn't realise it would be such a sensitive topic for forum members so my apologies.
@brodean it's alright to have an incorrect assumption mate, when Beaver Donald was banging the drums for Jim I thought he would be a chance, Donald seems to have a real knack for identifying FABS, he said Roigard would be 1 before he had joined the Canes fulltime, he also predicted Norris would be a future ABs prop, if Ioane Moananu ever makes it in future then it has to be more than simply luck in throwing out names!
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@brodean it's alright to have an incorrect assumption mate, when Beaver Donald was banging the drums for Jim I thought he would be a chance, Donald seems to have a real knack for identifying FABS, he said Roigard would be 1 before he had joined the Canes fulltime, he also predicted Norris would be a future ABs prop, if Ioane Moananu ever makes it in future then it has to be more than simply luck in throwing out names!
Kirsty was giving him flowers on his picking today on their show.
I reckon Beaver is right with his analysis too - for better or worse the coaches have selected players to play in a certain way.
We now get to see whether there is clarity on what that style of play will be, whether they've selected correctly to implement it (80% of success according to some past AB coaches), whether they can get the group going in that direction, and of course, whether it works.
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I like the squad selection, mostly because it seems like a turn away from ‘how do we not lose games?’ to ‘how can we actually win them?’. When you want to play a high-speed, movement-based game, you need to have the ball, and having Savea, Kirifi and Tavatavanawai in your squad (top 3 breakdown steals in Super Rugby) at least gives you an opportunity at consistently playing that game.
If I were to hazard a guess on how this will impact the game plan, I suspect they’ll want to start with a possession game, using big carriers through the middle. That means starting Taukei’aho, Williams, Sititi and Savea. I wouldn’t at all be surprised to see Vaa’i in the 6-jersey and Finau wearing 20. I would also guess they want to control possession by having experienced kickers at 10 and 15, which would mean Barrett and McKenzie both starting with Jordan on the right wing. (FYI, I am not saying good kickers, the emphasis is on experienced)
A bench of Taylor, Norris, Tosi, Tuipulotu, Finau, Kirifi, Ratima and Tavatavanawai/Tupaea would mean mobility, breakdown prowess and counter-attacking ability in the final 30 minutes. McKenzie thrives directing attack in broken play so he could shift to 10 while Jordan would move to 15.
Again, not saying that this is how they’ll play or line up, of course, but at least there’s some clear outlines of how they could attack the game, rather than just pick players who’ll work hard and hope that they produce some magic somehow.
@Mauss I think the corner has been turned for Will Jordan and we started to see in the latter part of the test season when he was consistently selected at fullback and then into this super season.
It would be a retrograde step to not have him start at fullback for the all the key games this season.
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@Mauss I think the corner has been turned for Will Jordan and we started to see in the latter part of the test season when he was consistently selected at fullback and then into this super season.
It would be a retrograde step to not have him start at fullback for the all the key games this season.
@ACT-Crusader said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@Mauss I think the corner has been turned for Will Jordan and we started to see in the latter part of the test season when he was consistently selected at fullback and then into this super season.
It would be a retrograde step to not have him start at fullback for the all the key games this season.
My only argument against this is that I think my preferred back three combo would utilise Jordan, Clarke and Love, and I think that trio works better with Jordan on the wing and Love at fullback rather than vice versa.
While Jordan could be world class at fullback, we know for a fact that he's a world-class wing.
My preferred backline would be Roigard, McKenzie, Clarke, Barrett, Proctor, Jordan, Love, with Ratima, Tupaea and Ioane on the bench. Tavatavanawai is definitely worth a run from the reserves too, and Barrett will no doubt need a rest or two given the long season he's had.
I'm also well aware that Beauden Barrett will be somewhere in the 23, even though I don't really want him there.
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If it was my choice (and yes Scott the email is on its way), then I’d be a little more bolder. Only 2 backs on the bench.
Roigard
Love
Clarke
Jordie
Proctor
Reece/Ioane
JordanRatima
DMac / Barrett -
I think NZ could get away with a 6:2 split on the bench given the flexibility of guys like McKenzie/Barrett/Barrett/Love and Ioane/Tavatavanawai, but I don't think Love should be the starting 10 at this stage. Would like to see him get some game time there during the season and seeing if he can push McKenzie for the starting role, but at this point in time McKenzie is very clearly the best operator at 10.
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@Mauss I think the corner has been turned for Will Jordan and we started to see in the latter part of the test season when he was consistently selected at fullback and then into this super season.
It would be a retrograde step to not have him start at fullback for the all the key games this season.
@ACT-Crusader said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@Mauss I think the corner has been turned for Will Jordan and we started to see in the latter part of the test season when he was consistently selected at fullback and then into this super season.
It would be a retrograde step to not have him start at fullback for the all the key games this season.
I agree that Jordan has improved a lot at fullback this season and he would be a more than adequate Test 15. I also think he's better at the back than on the right wing. My thinking is more around bench impact and using the 6/2-split.
One area where the ABs came up consistently short against both South Africa and France was the bench. The issue was, in my view, not so much the quality of the bench players, as the lack of tactical variation that the changes brought. And while this "cohesion approach" worked well against teams like Ireland – another side which prefers tactical consistency for 80 minutes – it doesn’t work nearly as well against sides like South Africa and France, who use their bench to not just freshen up their forwards but to introduce important tactical shifts as well.
So, for me, pragmatism needs to be key against these two teams, where the bench is used as a way to switch up the way the side plays in the second half. Switching players like McKenzie and Jordan around – while also introducing completely different types of players like Finau and Tavatavanawai into the fold early in the second half – would allow the side to play in a tactically varied manner.
South Africa and France use their bench to completely freshen up their forward pack, not just having 7 extra forwards on there but also often employing a system of rolling subs (for example, Mauvaka coming back on for Boudehent last November). We also saw that the NZ attack became much less effective as the game wore on, due to both fatigue as well as predictability. Robertson, in other words, needs to find a way to switch up his attack in the 2nd half. A Test match against France and South Africa has basically evolved into two games. So, in my view, you need two game plans to combat these sides.
Switching players around – not unlike the Chiefs did this year with Jacomb, Stevenson and McKenzie – is a relatively straightforward way to do this.
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We need speed on the wings, and soon.
It stretches the field and the opposition centre has to worry about helping his outside, and the opposition wing has to worry about being gassed.
Even if they themselves dont touch the ball, they create doubt and space inside for others.
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@sparky said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@antipodean Finau will feature in the series for sure, but not necessarily at 6 in Test One.
What position do you think he'd play instead? He's a blindside flanker who would only move to lock in an emergency.
It's unfathomable that a blindside flanker (the only genuine one in the squad) would make way for a player out of position in the first Test if he's fit.
Finau will be 6 or on the bench. But I don't think it's guaranteed he's the first-choice 6 in the squad they've selected.
There are lots of players around the world who play Test Rugby in one position and for international Rugby in another.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but given how much this coaching group are praising Fabian Holland I can see him starting the first test at lock and then one of Scott Barrett or Tupou Vaa'i being played at 6.
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We need speed on the wings, and soon.
It stretches the field and the opposition centre has to worry about helping his outside, and the opposition wing has to worry about being gassed.
Even if they themselves dont touch the ball, they create doubt and space inside for others.
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Blues best player (AJ Lam) is the most unlucky. With LF probably coming in for the RC, I guess he won't be selected this year.
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Overall reflections on the squad
Front Row - Those are the best choices available.
Lock - Again, those are the best choices available, but it worries me a bit that Robertson was talking about Vaii as a 6 and it worries me a lot that he was talking about Scott Barrett as a 6.
Back row - None of those are bad options, but I think Dalton Papalii has been hard done by and, with Scott Parker unavailable, I'd have picked Ah Khoi or Beehre (probably Beehre) as a 6.
Half Back - No complaints. Those are the best three.
First Five - Reihana's not far away and feels more of a pick for the future than Beauden Barrett, but Robertson likes those two for his game plan.
Midfield - Feels like they picked one too many and if you were picking that many then AJ Lam should have been given a chance.
Wing - I'm worried about our shortage of pace. I'd have taken a chance on Leroy Carter, if Caleb Tangitau wasn't going to be ready.
Full Back - Fine, those are the best two.
So, yeah, overall, it's a good squad, better than the one this time last year, but the balance of the back row selections ain't right, we are going to lack pace out wide relative to the French and two or three Blues have been hard done by.
I think we'll win the series against France 2-1.
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Overall reflections on the squad
Front Row - Those are the best choices available.
Lock - Again, those are the best choices available, but it worries me a bit that Robertson was talking about Vaii as a 6 and it worries me a lot that he was talking about Scott Barrett as a 6.
Back row - None of those are bad options, but I think Dalton Papalii has been hard done by and, with Scott Parker unavailable, I'd have picked Ah Khoi or Beehre (probably Beehre) as a 6.
Half Back - No complaints. Those are the best three.
First Five - Reihana's not far away and feels more of a pick for the future than Beauden Barrett, but Robertson likes those two for his game plan.
Midfield - Feels like they picked one too many and if you were picking that many then AJ Lam should have been given a chance.
Wing - I'm worried about our shortage of pace. I'd have taken a chance on Leroy Carter, if Caleb Tangitau wasn't going to be ready.
Full Back - Fine, those are the best two.
So, yeah, overall, it's a good squad, better than the one this time last year, but the balance of the back row selections ain't right, we are going to lack pace out wide relative to the French and two or three Blues have been hard done by.
I think we'll win the series against France 2-1.
@sparky said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Leroy Carter
I don't think he's exactly express pace. I'd be mildly surprised if he's faster than Clarke or Love.
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@sparky said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Leroy Carter
I don't think he's exactly express pace. I'd be mildly surprised if he's faster than Clarke or Love.
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@Bones Hard to know. He's not prime Joe Rokocoko fast, but I'd have thought he was slightly quicker than those two.
Basically I want more pace out wide, but I'm not sure who?
@sparky said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@Bones Hard to know. He's not prime Joe Rokocoko fast, but I'd have thought he was slightly quicker than those two.
Basically I want more pace out wide, but I'm not sure who?
Id play Jordan on the wing, he has looked great there in the past, and have Love at 15. Tangitau when fit. That would provide 2 pacey wings and Love to hopefully help put them in space.
