2025 All Blacks v France series
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@Chris-B said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@Tim said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@Chris-B It was mentioned in the Herald a couple of times this year (and by @george33) that Papalii had increased his weight to have more impact in collisions, so he may be looked at as a seven and six cover.
He may be doing the right thing, but it's bloody hard to know.
On the one hand they appear to be picking utility guys who are going to be good in general play - almost left and right flankers - but not great at lineouts or where massive speed is a necessity.
On the other hand, they're picking Kirifi (a whippet) and Finau a big body.
I can't tell whether they want two or three generalists or three specialists.
That's my concern, we keep picking squads which don't really make any cohesive sense to me. Savea and Kirifi makes sense - if they're picking Savea as a 7. If they're picking Savea as an 8 and Jacobson as a 7 on the other hand, then LJ and Kirifi are completely different.
CLW in for Sititi would make sense if they were planning to play Wallace at 8 - but CLW wasn't actually picked as that, he was picked as cover for Jacobson... who he plays really quite differently to.
And obviously Finau and who? Surely they can't be serious about the locks - they might provide a comparable lineout option, but they will not be up to scratch in other areas. And the other loosies picked don't play like him at all either. What do we do if he doesn't work out? Is there a plan for that? Because there bloody well ought to be given it is exactly what happened last year.@reprobate It's not obvious!
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@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Jacobson, Lio Willie, and Papali'i cover six.
Well, you can put them in the jersey and they'll play alright.
Which of them will replicate Jerome? Which of them is going to win lineouts jumping against Big Pieter-Steph?
@Chris-B said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Jacobson, Lio Willie, and Papali'i cover six.
Well, you can put them in the jersey and they'll play alright.
Which of them will replicate Jerome? Which of them is going to win lineouts jumping against Big Pieter-Steph?
I think that might be an issue if Finau gets injured but at the moment he's not.
Sititi and Blackadder were in the lineout last year and they're no better than Jacobson or Papali'i in the lineout.
Against South Africa I do think its possible to pick Barrett or Vaa'i depending on who the Boks pick.
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I still think the French test last year was the best guide to what they were thinking for a starting loose trio unit. Unfortunately we didn’t get to see what it could do over an extended period with Finau going down so early.
They got the bench selections wrong (Lakai) though without an adequate replacement for blindside / balance with Ardie and Sititi.
So I’m really hoping that they bring CLW straight in as the #8. What that means is that we have a player that covers 6 on the bench that we don’t have to overcompensate for. If that is a lock at this stage, I’d much prefer that than some undersized loosie.
Vaa’i is the one I’d shift if we were in that situation again and bring Holland on to lock.
Kirifi covering if Ardie or CLW need to be replaced.
4- Barrett
5- Vaa’i
6- Finau
7- Savea
8- CLW19- Holland
20- Kirifi -
I still think the French test last year was the best guide to what they were thinking for a starting loose trio unit. Unfortunately we didn’t get to see what it could do over an extended period with Finau going down so early.
They got the bench selections wrong (Lakai) though without an adequate replacement for blindside / balance with Ardie and Sititi.
So I’m really hoping that they bring CLW straight in as the #8. What that means is that we have a player that covers 6 on the bench that we don’t have to overcompensate for. If that is a lock at this stage, I’d much prefer that than some undersized loosie.
Vaa’i is the one I’d shift if we were in that situation again and bring Holland on to lock.
Kirifi covering if Ardie or CLW need to be replaced.
4- Barrett
5- Vaa’i
6- Finau
7- Savea
8- CLW19- Holland
20- Kirifi -
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Overall there seems to be some height and weight in the locks/backrow.
The backs don't seem particularly big.
There are not too many very young players. There are a lot of players in their mid twenties which should be hitting their peak.
Actually I thought the flankers look on paper tall but light and apart from locks and some props that looks like a very light team. Probably very fast though
@nostrildamus said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Overall there seems to be some height and weight in the locks/backrow.
The backs don't seem particularly big.
There are not too many very young players. There are a lot of players in their mid twenties which should be hitting their peak.
Actually I thought the flankers look on paper tall but light and apart from locks and some props that looks like a very light team. Probably very fast though
Woki could be used as a loose forward to add some beef in the backrow.
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It makes sense to me except the bench.
I think Kirifi and Savea on the field at the same time can work against some teams but its probably not France or South Africa.
@brodean I just think the benefits outweigh the risks when it comes to Kirifi. He’s a genuine ball stealer and we desperately need someone that can put the pressure on late in the game. Plus Ardie has been very successful in attack against the Boks and French.
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@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Good to see Razor has no hard feelings about the Papali'i headbutt.
"We Walk Together"
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@brodean I just think the benefits outweigh the risks when it comes to Kirifi. He’s a genuine ball stealer and we desperately need someone that can put the pressure on late in the game. Plus Ardie has been very successful in attack against the Boks and French.
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@ACT-Crusader So you'd plan to end the game with:
Savea, Kirifi, Lio-Willie, Holland, Barrett?
@Chris-B said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@ACT-Crusader So you'd plan to end the game with:
Savea, Kirifi, Lio-Willie, Holland, Barrett?
No. Vaa’i moving to 6. Kirifi only replaces Savea or CLW. If it’s non-injury then it’s Ardie that would play the 80.
Tactical subs of replacing Finau with Holland. Vaa’i moves to 6 (around the 55-58 min mark). CLW is replaced by Kirifi (around the 60 min mark).
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@Chris-B said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@ACT-Crusader So you'd plan to end the game with:
Savea, Kirifi, Lio-Willie, Holland, Barrett?
No. Vaa’i moving to 6. Kirifi only replaces Savea or CLW. If it’s non-injury then it’s Ardie that would play the 80.
Tactical subs of replacing Finau with Holland. Vaa’i moves to 6 (around the 55-58 min mark). CLW is replaced by Kirifi (around the 60 min mark).
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@ACT-Crusader But, you're then asking both your locks to play 80 minutes and subbing two loose forwards who I'd expect to have more endurance?
@Chris-B said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@ACT-Crusader But, you're then asking both your locks to play 80 minutes and subbing two loose forwards who I'd expect to have more endurance?
Scooter probably has the highest endurance of all our forwards so no qualms there with him playing 80.
It’s not too dissimilar to when we played Whitelock and Retallick for 80 for quite a few games and Scooter was the one coming off the bench to replace a loosie.
Ideally I’d want a 6/2 split but given the squad we’ve picked I think the 5/3 and using our starting 6 and 8 to go hell for leather.
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Im happy with a Finau, Kirifi and Savea combo against a shit house French side.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@DMX said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@Victor-Meldrew said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@Bovidae said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
The pressure will be on Robertson and the ABs to win 3-0.
Hopefully people/press see the series as a real opportunity for Robertson to put his stamp on things and chance his arm a bit. Ideal scenario is getting 2-0 up and having the confidence to give people like Proctor & Love plenty of game time.
I would really be hoping that Proctor is in pole position and starts all three tests.
Don't think he will. Probably be Roigard/BB/JB/RI/WJ with Caleb Clarke & Reece on the wings to start Frog 1.
That's most likely, but it wouldn't be too surprising if Proctor played centre and they pushed Rieko to the wing. I think that's the only way they can cover every position effectively against injury - assuming ALB isn't fit.
QT can probably cover midfield otherwise, but if Rieko (at centre) got injured in the first 10 minutes, you're asking plenty of him to play most of a test at centre.
Similarly, with Billy Proctor covering 2nd five. I recall last year vs Oz they didn't want to do that.
@Chris-B said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@Victor-Meldrew said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@DMX said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@Victor-Meldrew said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@Bovidae said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
The pressure will be on Robertson and the ABs to win 3-0.
Hopefully people/press see the series as a real opportunity for Robertson to put his stamp on things and chance his arm a bit. Ideal scenario is getting 2-0 up and having the confidence to give people like Proctor & Love plenty of game time.
I would really be hoping that Proctor is in pole position and starts all three tests.
Don't think he will. Probably be Roigard/BB/JB/RI/WJ with Caleb Clarke & Reece on the wings to start Frog 1.
That's most likely, but it wouldn't be too surprising if Proctor played centre and they pushed Rieko to the wing. I think that's the only way they can cover every position effectively against injury - assuming ALB isn't fit.
It's kinda ironic that ALB's fitness is a factor in being a bit more radical in midfield....
On a broader view, my concern is we lose the 1st Test and don't get the bandwidth to develop players and positions until the TRC.
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@Chris-B said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@Victor-Meldrew said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@DMX said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@Victor-Meldrew said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@Bovidae said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
The pressure will be on Robertson and the ABs to win 3-0.
Hopefully people/press see the series as a real opportunity for Robertson to put his stamp on things and chance his arm a bit. Ideal scenario is getting 2-0 up and having the confidence to give people like Proctor & Love plenty of game time.
I would really be hoping that Proctor is in pole position and starts all three tests.
Don't think he will. Probably be Roigard/BB/JB/RI/WJ with Caleb Clarke & Reece on the wings to start Frog 1.
That's most likely, but it wouldn't be too surprising if Proctor played centre and they pushed Rieko to the wing. I think that's the only way they can cover every position effectively against injury - assuming ALB isn't fit.
It's kinda ironic that ALB's fitness is a factor in being a bit more radical in midfield....
On a broader view, my concern is we lose the 1st Test and don't get the bandwidth to develop players and positions until the TRC.
@Victor-Meldrew said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@Chris-B said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@Victor-Meldrew said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@DMX said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@Victor-Meldrew said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@Bovidae said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
The pressure will be on Robertson and the ABs to win 3-0.
Hopefully people/press see the series as a real opportunity for Robertson to put his stamp on things and chance his arm a bit. Ideal scenario is getting 2-0 up and having the confidence to give people like Proctor & Love plenty of game time.
I would really be hoping that Proctor is in pole position and starts all three tests.
Don't think he will. Probably be Roigard/BB/JB/RI/WJ with Caleb Clarke & Reece on the wings to start Frog 1.
That's most likely, but it wouldn't be too surprising if Proctor played centre and they pushed Rieko to the wing. I think that's the only way they can cover every position effectively against injury - assuming ALB isn't fit.
It's kinda ironic that ALB's fitness is a factor in being a bit more radical in midfield....
On a broader view, my concern is we lose the 1st Test and don't get the bandwidth to develop players and positions until the TRC.
Proctor definitely deserves his shot even if ALB is fit. ALB hasn’t locked down a spot in the many tests he’s played, doubt he’s going to do that now.
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@Chris-B said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@ACT-Crusader So you'd plan to end the game with:
Savea, Kirifi, Lio-Willie, Holland, Barrett?
No. Vaa’i moving to 6. Kirifi only replaces Savea or CLW. If it’s non-injury then it’s Ardie that would play the 80.
Tactical subs of replacing Finau with Holland. Vaa’i moves to 6 (around the 55-58 min mark). CLW is replaced by Kirifi (around the 60 min mark).
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@ACT-Crusader Why would you bring on Holland off the bench? He isn't a ball carrier. Tuipulotu played that role well on the EOYT.
@Tim said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@ACT-Crusader Why would you bring on Holland off the bench? He isn't a ball carrier. Tuipulotu played that role well on the EOYT.
Because you have to blood him in somehow… he’s pretty bloody good with ridiculous potential
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Im happy with a Finau, Kirifi and Savea combo against a shit house French side.
I was hoping to see the end of the duel opensides with the last game of Cane.
Pooper didn't work and ultimately neither did Cane and Savea.
Out loose forward trio has been unbalanced for years and with Savea playing 7 this year it's an opportunity to move away from that.
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@Tim said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@ACT-Crusader Why would you bring on Holland off the bench? He isn't a ball carrier. Tuipulotu played that role well on the EOYT.
Because you have to blood him in somehow… he’s pretty bloody good with ridiculous potential
