2025 All Blacks v France series
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@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Geez, it is just a circle-jerk of butt-hurt provincial bias against Blackadder, isn't it?
Interesting response to statistics
Here is a stat for you.
Funnily enough, I am not bitching about why he is left out of the ABs. I completely understand the logic and personally think a Finau/ Vaai/ Parker(maybe) is a better fit at 6.
You keyboard warriors saying he isn't a good footy player is going beyond the pale though. All I see is vindictive shenanigans, the same kind of skulduggery that dogged Akira (another good player). It is all along provincial lines, repetitive, and boring. Go suck a plop.@Old-Samurai-Jack said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
You keyboard warriors saying he isn't a good footy player
What has been said?
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@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@antipodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
My impression is he doesn't do enough in the defensive side of the game.
Lasaqa doesn't hit enough rucks for a 7 and is ineffective:
Rucks Per 80 Minutes
35.34 Dalton Papali'i
32.44 Tom Christie
31.48 Du'Plessis Kirifi
29.13 Jahrome Brown
28.53 Ardie Savea
26.84 Luke Jacobson
26.31 Kaylum Boshier
20.92 Veveni LasaqaAttacking Ruck Effectiveness
89.9 Dalton Papali'i
89.6 Tom Christie
87.6 Jahrome Brown
86.3 Ardie Savea
85.0 Du'Plessis Kirifi
84.9 Luke Jacobson
76.5 Veveni Lasaqa
76.1 Kaylum BoshierDefensive Ruck Effectiveness
23.5 Kaylum Boshier
23.2 Luke Jacobson
21.5 Du'Plessis Kirifi
20.5 Ardie Savea
15.2 Jahrome Brown
14.5 Dalton Papali'i
13.8 Tom Christie
12.1 Veveni LasaqaBe interested to see Sean Withy's stats there. Lasaqa spends a lot of time in the wider channels. With Withy primarily being the worker. It is Lasaqa's first year in Super too. He will get better, bigger and more robust.
@SouthernMann said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@antipodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
My impression is he doesn't do enough in the defensive side of the game.
Lasaqa doesn't hit enough rucks for a 7 and is ineffective:
Rucks Per 80 Minutes
37.1 Ethan Blackadder
35.34 Dalton Papali'i
33.52 Sean Withy
32.44 Tom Christie
31.48 Du'Plessis Kirifi
29.13 Jahrome Brown
28.53 Ardie Savea
26.84 Luke Jacobson
26.31 Kaylum Boshier
20.92 Veveni LasaqaAttacking Ruck Effectiveness
89.9 Dalton Papali'i
89.6 Tom Christie
87.6 Jahrome Brown
86.3 Ardie Savea
85.0 Du'Plessis Kirifi
84.9 Luke Jacobson
84.2 Sean Withy
82.7 Ethan Blackadder
76.5 Veveni Lasaqa
76.1 Kaylum BoshierDefensive Ruck Effectiveness
23.5 Kaylum Boshier
23.2 Luke Jacobson
21.5 Du'Plessis Kirifi
20.5 Ardie Savea
15.2 Jahrome Brown
14.8 Ethan Blackadder
14.5 Dalton Papali'i
14.5 Sean Withy
13.8 Tom Christie
12.1 Veveni LasaqaBe interested to see Sean Withy's stats there. Lasaqa spends a lot of time in the wider channels. With Withy primarily being the worker. It is Lasaqa's first year in Super too. He will get better, bigger and more robust.
Re Sean Withy, additionally -
Dominant Carry 39.1%
Gainline 55.4%
Tackle evasion 11.1%EDIT: Included Withy's stats around ruck in the above list.
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@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Geez, it is just a circle-jerk of butt-hurt provincial bias against Blackadder, isn't it?
Interesting response to statistics
Here is a stat for you.
Funnily enough, I am not bitching about why he is left out of the ABs. I completely understand the logic and personally think a Finau/ Vaai/ Parker(maybe) is a better fit at 6.
You keyboard warriors saying he isn't a good footy player is going beyond the pale though. All I see is vindictive shenanigans, the same kind of skulduggery that dogged Akira (another good player). It is all along provincial lines, repetitive, and boring. Go suck a plop. -
I’ve got nothing against him , he empties the tank every time he plays and I can’t do anything but respect that,
Just don’t think he’s the answer for the abs at 6 like has been suggested in some areas prior to this year .
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I’ve got nothing against him , he empties the tank every time he plays and I can’t do anything but respect that,
Just don’t think he’s the answer for the abs at 6 like has been suggested in some areas prior to this year .
@kiwiinmelb not to mention his history of breaking, he is stopping both himself and the ABs of developing combinations.
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@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@Kirwan said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Well that was a methodic dismantling of the Blackadder myth. Confirmed beyond all doubt the "busy but ineffective" label.
As a ball carrier, sure. He's almost McCaw-like in his lack of metres and evasiveness.
Is a ball carrier what we need to accompany and balance Sititi and Savea?I don't care if he's a ball carrier, I want his ruck clear outs and tackles to be effective.
Who cares if he makes 15 tackles if he's escorting guys over the try line? Espcially at six, you need stoppers there. Obviously Kaino and Collins used to cut people in half, but I could mention another six that tackled harder than Ethan.
Reminds me when I started work on a helpdesk, I had awesome call stats because I took all the easy items off the queue. Not actually that useful but looks great on paper.
@Kirwan said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@Kirwan said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Well that was a methodic dismantling of the Blackadder myth. Confirmed beyond all doubt the "busy but ineffective" label.
As a ball carrier, sure. He's almost McCaw-like in his lack of metres and evasiveness.
Is a ball carrier what we need to accompany and balance Sititi and Savea?I don't care if he's a ball carrier, I want his ruck clear outs and tackles to be effective.
Who cares if he makes 15 tackles if he's escorting guys over the try line? Espcially at six, you need stoppers there. Obviously Kaino and Collins used to cut people in half, but I could mention another six that tackled harder than Ethan.
Reminds me when I started work on a helpdesk, I had awesome call stats because I took all the easy items off the queue. Not actually that useful but looks great on paper.
You want his ruck work and tackling to be effective, and don't care if he's a ball carrier. That's fine, but what you said was this: "Well that was a methodic dismantling of the Blackadder myth. Confirmed beyond all doubt the "busy but ineffective" label.", in response to stats about and only about ball carrying.
If ball carrying doesn't matter to you, how do stats about only ball carrying allow you to reach your conclusion? -
I recall Tamaiti Williams making two breaks up the middle in last years French test and there was no one in support. The tight forwards were to slow too react and the loose forwards were out on the edges.
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
I recall Tamaiti Williams making two breaks up the middle in last years French test and there was no one in support. The tight forwards were to slow too react and the loose forwards were out on the edges.
It happened too often in 2024 that the ABs would construct a clean break through a well-constructed attack move, only for the attack to be beaten to the space by the scramble defence and subsequently turned over. Both 10s – McKenzie and Barrett – often stretched the attacking line beyond its means and support in order to create these breaks, meaning that they consistently had insufficient numbers to effectively keep the attack alive after the break and finish the score.
It points to two areas where, I think, visible improvement is a must in the 2025 Test season: (1) the offloading game and (2) support play. There needs to be, first of all, an increased focus on when and where to offload, an ideal offload being both (a) after contact, and (b) behind the defensive line. Too often, players would throw an offload before rather than behind the defensive line, as a way of creating the break, which doesn't have the desired effect and often leads to turnovers or an attack on the backfoot.
And secondly, the 9 and 10 need to keep in mind that the attacking line doesn't become stretched too thin in their desire to break the line, making sure that there is enough support on its feet and in the vicinity of the ball to make sure that an eventual break is actually finished. That means not using the entire width of the field at all times in attack, but rather to occassionally concentrate the attack as well, either between the 15s or one side of the pitch.
Throughout the SR season, I did get the feeling at times that there was a collective effort across the Kiwi SR teams to implement these principles of the ideal offload and support play. Watching the Highlanders in Canberra, for example, I thought that core aspects of the AB offloading game plan were being put into practice:
https://media1.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExc3NuNXY0bWp0MHl5M29iZXJ3ZGY5cm91eWNjMzNyNHAyOGgwZ3JvbSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/mPNCxas25ne4efhLTL/giphy.gif
https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExMzJsYmdvMHcxbzdtZzBxbDUxMmpwcG41bG44aG5ic2Y4dmQyZzlpdSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/ZpIlnW68KSZZhzbxj8/giphy.gifYou have players (1) targeting the defensive shooter out of the line and/or (2) attacking the space close to the ruck, with the support flooding the channel in behind them. Furthermore, the players are offloading (a) after contact, with (b) both their hands free, and (c) with their support unmarked and clearly sighted. These aren’t blind, wild offloads but low-risk, high-reward ways of keeping the ball alive, with predictable results to follow. It requires the support to work hard and beat the defenders to that space on the carrier's shoulder.
Hopefully we’ll see some similar principles and results during the Test season as well, with more of those breaks actually being finished this season.
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@Kirwan said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@Kirwan said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Well that was a methodic dismantling of the Blackadder myth. Confirmed beyond all doubt the "busy but ineffective" label.
As a ball carrier, sure. He's almost McCaw-like in his lack of metres and evasiveness.
Is a ball carrier what we need to accompany and balance Sititi and Savea?I don't care if he's a ball carrier, I want his ruck clear outs and tackles to be effective.
Who cares if he makes 15 tackles if he's escorting guys over the try line? Espcially at six, you need stoppers there. Obviously Kaino and Collins used to cut people in half, but I could mention another six that tackled harder than Ethan.
Reminds me when I started work on a helpdesk, I had awesome call stats because I took all the easy items off the queue. Not actually that useful but looks great on paper.
You want his ruck work and tackling to be effective, and don't care if he's a ball carrier. That's fine, but what you said was this: "Well that was a methodic dismantling of the Blackadder myth. Confirmed beyond all doubt the "busy but ineffective" label.", in response to stats about and only about ball carrying.
If ball carrying doesn't matter to you, how do stats about only ball carrying allow you to reach your conclusion?Attacking Ruck Effectiveness %
90.3 Samipeni Finau
89.3 Cam Christie
85.9 Anton Segner
85.2 Brayden Iose
85.0 TK Howden
84.5 Oliver Haig
83.7 Simon Parker
82.7 Ethan Blackadder
81.8 Cullen GraceDefensive Ruck Effectiveness %
25.0 Simon Parker
17.8 Cullen Grace
15.9 Samipeni Finau
14.8 Ethan Blackadder
12.8 TK Howden
12.1 Anton Segner
9.1 Brayden Iose
0.0 Cam Christie
0.0 Oliver HaigDominant Tackle %
14.6 Simon Parker
11.8 Samipeni Finau
10.8 TK Howden
8.5 Cam Christie
7.1 Brayden Iose
5.4 Ethan Blackadder
3.2 Cullen Grace
2.0 Oliver Haig
1.7 Anton Segner -
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
I recall Tamaiti Williams making two breaks up the middle in last years French test and there was no one in support. The tight forwards were to slow too react and the loose forwards were out on the edges.
It happened too often in 2024 that the ABs would construct a clean break through a well-constructed attack move, only for the attack to be beaten to the space by the scramble defence and subsequently turned over. Both 10s – McKenzie and Barrett – often stretched the attacking line beyond its means and support in order to create these breaks, meaning that they consistently had insufficient numbers to effectively keep the attack alive after the break and finish the score.
It points to two areas where, I think, visible improvement is a must in the 2025 Test season: (1) the offloading game and (2) support play. There needs to be, first of all, an increased focus on when and where to offload, an ideal offload being both (a) after contact, and (b) behind the defensive line. Too often, players would throw an offload before rather than behind the defensive line, as a way of creating the break, which doesn't have the desired effect and often leads to turnovers or an attack on the backfoot.
And secondly, the 9 and 10 need to keep in mind that the attacking line doesn't become stretched too thin in their desire to break the line, making sure that there is enough support on its feet and in the vicinity of the ball to make sure that an eventual break is actually finished. That means not using the entire width of the field at all times in attack, but rather to occassionally concentrate the attack as well, either between the 15s or one side of the pitch.
Throughout the SR season, I did get the feeling at times that there was a collective effort across the Kiwi SR teams to implement these principles of the ideal offload and support play. Watching the Highlanders in Canberra, for example, I thought that core aspects of the AB offloading game plan were being put into practice:
https://media1.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExc3NuNXY0bWp0MHl5M29iZXJ3ZGY5cm91eWNjMzNyNHAyOGgwZ3JvbSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/mPNCxas25ne4efhLTL/giphy.gif
https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExMzJsYmdvMHcxbzdtZzBxbDUxMmpwcG41bG44aG5ic2Y4dmQyZzlpdSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/ZpIlnW68KSZZhzbxj8/giphy.gifYou have players (1) targeting the defensive shooter out of the line and/or (2) attacking the space close to the ruck, with the support flooding the channel in behind them. Furthermore, the players are offloading (a) after contact, with (b) both their hands free, and (c) with their support unmarked and clearly sighted. These aren’t blind, wild offloads but low-risk, high-reward ways of keeping the ball alive, with predictable results to follow. It requires the support to work hard and beat the defenders to that space on the carrier's shoulder.
Hopefully we’ll see some similar principles and results during the Test season as well, with more of those breaks actually being finished this season.
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Well you can only offload if the support play is there and it simply wasn't last year. I felt like we were trying to run them into the ground but only ran ourselves into the ground and then failed to use the bench properly.
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
I felt like we were trying to run them into the ground but only ran ourselves into the ground and then failed to use the bench properly.
Yeah Exactly the way it seemed to me.
Selections look like a change in directions hopefully. -
Attacking Ruck Effectiveness %
90.3 Samipeni Finau
89.3 Cam Christie
85.9 Anton Segner
85.2 Brayden Iose
85.0 TK Howden
84.5 Oliver Haig
83.7 Simon Parker
82.7 Ethan Blackadder
81.8 Cullen GraceDefensive Ruck Effectiveness %
25.0 Simon Parker
17.8 Cullen Grace
15.9 Samipeni Finau
14.8 Ethan Blackadder
12.8 TK Howden
12.1 Anton Segner
9.1 Brayden Iose
0.0 Cam Christie
0.0 Oliver HaigDominant Tackle %
14.6 Simon Parker
11.8 Samipeni Finau
10.8 TK Howden
8.5 Cam Christie
7.1 Brayden Iose
5.4 Ethan Blackadder
3.2 Cullen Grace
2.0 Oliver Haig
1.7 Anton Segner@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Attacking Ruck Effectiveness %
90.3 Samipeni Finau
89.3 Cam Christie
85.9 Anton Segner
85.2 Brayden Iose
85.0 TK Howden
84.5 Oliver Haig
83.7 Simon Parker
82.7 Ethan Blackadder
81.8 Cullen GraceDefensive Ruck Effectiveness %
25.0 Simon Parker
17.8 Cullen Grace
15.9 Samipeni Finau
14.8 Ethan Blackadder
12.8 TK Howden
12.1 Anton Segner
9.1 Brayden Iose
0.0 Cam Christie
0.0 Oliver HaigDominant Tackle %
14.6 Simon Parker
11.8 Samipeni Finau
10.8 TK Howden
8.5 Cam Christie
7.1 Brayden Iose
5.4 Ethan Blackadder
3.2 Cullen Grace
2.0 Oliver Haig
1.7 Anton SegnerSo you're missing all the players he has missed out to at 6/utility except Finau i.e. Jacobson and apparently Barrett and Vaai, CLW, Sititi, DP.
And missing the quantities per minute? If you're going to leave stuff out because it doesn't suit your dislike of a certain player then it just seems like more of the circle jerk mate.
Edit to add: he's by no means a perfect player, but the ability of people on here to ignore everything good he does, and his play in the last few weeks is mental. -
Razor on Newstalk ZB
Blackadder medically unavailable.
Beauden/Damien can both play First Five/Fullback interesting and Bench option.
Du Plessis conceded the fewest penalties.
Simon Parker definitely on the Radar.
Reuben Love, 10/15 interesting.
Jordie Barrett he said is like a player, coach.highly rated obviously.
ALB, unavailable first 2 tests.Narewa
covering.Reiko Ioane sounds like 13,Sounds like he won't be starting wing, but can end the game there.Incredibly professional.
Proctor will get an opportunity?
Reiko experienced and started every game for Blues, Razor sounds like a big
fan.
Few takeaways probably nothing that wasn't known. -
Razor on Newstalk ZB
Blackadder medically unavailable.
Beauden/Damien can both play First Five/Fullback interesting and Bench option.
Du Plessis conceded the fewest penalties.
Simon Parker definitely on the Radar.
Reuben Love, 10/15 interesting.
Jordie Barrett he said is like a player, coach.highly rated obviously.
ALB, unavailable first 2 tests.Narewa
covering.Reiko Ioane sounds like 13,Sounds like he won't be starting wing, but can end the game there.Incredibly professional.
Proctor will get an opportunity?
Reiko experienced and started every game for Blues, Razor sounds like a big
fan.
Few takeaways probably nothing that wasn't known. -
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@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Attacking Ruck Effectiveness %
90.3 Samipeni Finau
89.3 Cam Christie
85.9 Anton Segner
85.2 Brayden Iose
85.0 TK Howden
84.5 Oliver Haig
83.7 Simon Parker
82.7 Ethan Blackadder
81.8 Cullen GraceDefensive Ruck Effectiveness %
25.0 Simon Parker
17.8 Cullen Grace
15.9 Samipeni Finau
14.8 Ethan Blackadder
12.8 TK Howden
12.1 Anton Segner
9.1 Brayden Iose
0.0 Cam Christie
0.0 Oliver HaigDominant Tackle %
14.6 Simon Parker
11.8 Samipeni Finau
10.8 TK Howden
8.5 Cam Christie
7.1 Brayden Iose
5.4 Ethan Blackadder
3.2 Cullen Grace
2.0 Oliver Haig
1.7 Anton SegnerSo you're missing all the players he has missed out to at 6/utility except Finau i.e. Jacobson and apparently Barrett and Vaai, CLW, Sititi, DP.
And missing the quantities per minute? If you're going to leave stuff out because it doesn't suit your dislike of a certain player then it just seems like more of the circle jerk mate.
Edit to add: he's by no means a perfect player, but the ability of people on here to ignore everything good he does, and his play in the last few weeks is mental.@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Attacking Ruck Effectiveness %
90.3 Samipeni Finau
89.3 Cam Christie
85.9 Anton Segner
85.2 Brayden Iose
85.0 TK Howden
84.5 Oliver Haig
83.7 Simon Parker
82.7 Ethan Blackadder
81.8 Cullen GraceDefensive Ruck Effectiveness %
25.0 Simon Parker
17.8 Cullen Grace
15.9 Samipeni Finau
14.8 Ethan Blackadder
12.8 TK Howden
12.1 Anton Segner
9.1 Brayden Iose
0.0 Cam Christie
0.0 Oliver HaigDominant Tackle %
14.6 Simon Parker
11.8 Samipeni Finau
10.8 TK Howden
8.5 Cam Christie
7.1 Brayden Iose
5.4 Ethan Blackadder
3.2 Cullen Grace
2.0 Oliver Haig
1.7 Anton SegnerSo you're missing all the players he has missed out to at 6/utility except Finau i.e. Jacobson and apparently Barrett and Vaai, CLW, Sititi, DP.
And missing the quantities per minute? If you're going to leave stuff out because it doesn't suit your dislike of a certain player then it just seems like more of the circle jerk mate.
Edit to add: he's by no means a perfect player, but the ability of people on here to ignore everything good he does, and his play in the last few weeks is mental.I've included him with the sixes because that is where he has been playing. I included the 7 details with Blackadder earlier which included a comparison with Jacobson, and Papali'i.
Blackadder is not competing for a space in the squad with Barrett, Vaa'i who are first choice locks - and CLW, Sititi who are 8's.
No ones disputing Blackadders workrate.
Effectiveness is the issue.
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@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Attacking Ruck Effectiveness %
90.3 Samipeni Finau
89.3 Cam Christie
85.9 Anton Segner
85.2 Brayden Iose
85.0 TK Howden
84.5 Oliver Haig
83.7 Simon Parker
82.7 Ethan Blackadder
81.8 Cullen GraceDefensive Ruck Effectiveness %
25.0 Simon Parker
17.8 Cullen Grace
15.9 Samipeni Finau
14.8 Ethan Blackadder
12.8 TK Howden
12.1 Anton Segner
9.1 Brayden Iose
0.0 Cam Christie
0.0 Oliver HaigDominant Tackle %
14.6 Simon Parker
11.8 Samipeni Finau
10.8 TK Howden
8.5 Cam Christie
7.1 Brayden Iose
5.4 Ethan Blackadder
3.2 Cullen Grace
2.0 Oliver Haig
1.7 Anton SegnerSo you're missing all the players he has missed out to at 6/utility except Finau i.e. Jacobson and apparently Barrett and Vaai, CLW, Sititi, DP.
And missing the quantities per minute? If you're going to leave stuff out because it doesn't suit your dislike of a certain player then it just seems like more of the circle jerk mate.
Edit to add: he's by no means a perfect player, but the ability of people on here to ignore everything good he does, and his play in the last few weeks is mental.@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Edit to add: he's by no means a perfect player, but the ability of people on here to ignore everything good he does
we talking about Akira now?
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@reprobate regardless, he's still behind players that are not even AB material in the aspects of the game he's meant to excel at. When you add that to the fact he has all of the impact of a wet blanket ball in hand, "busy but ineffective" definitely fits. When you also add how injury plagued he is, meaning he was being selected with no form at the level down, and it actually does beggar belief that he was selected at all for test footy. That's why he's been the focus of so many discussions, no other player stands out as not deserving a spot like he does, well apart from Fihaki and Bell which were also extremely biased selections.
But anyway, thankfully Razor reads the Fern and realised some of his Crusaders stars may not actually cut it at test level.
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@reprobate regardless, he's still behind players that are not even AB material in the aspects of the game he's meant to excel at. When you add that to the fact he has all of the impact of a wet blanket ball in hand, "busy but ineffective" definitely fits. When you also add how injury plagued he is, meaning he was being selected with no form at the level down, and it actually does beggar belief that he was selected at all for test footy. That's why he's been the focus of so many discussions, no other player stands out as not deserving a spot like he does, well apart from Fihaki and Bell which were also extremely biased selections.
But anyway, thankfully Razor reads the Fern and realised some of his Crusaders stars may not actually cut it at test level.
@No-Quarter said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
But anyway, thankfully Razor reads the Fern and realised some of his Crusaders stars may not actually cut it at test level.
That is what I thought but now I wonder if it was because or also due to this apparent injury?
Regardless of what one thinks of how suitable EB is at AB level, I hope a coach or physio can help him to avoid whatever habits he may have that seem to lead to all these injuries. He has a difficult physical role but it really is beginning to sound to me that there is something about his playing style which is really hard on his body, hopefully it can be finetuned.
