2025 All Blacks v France series
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@pakman said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
I couldn't bring myself to listen to more than 10 seconds of these two but Ioane on the wing sounds ok to me. More compelling than an out of sorts Clarke and a short, slow Reece.
@MN5 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@pakman said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
I couldn't bring myself to listen to more than 10 seconds of these two but Ioane on the wing sounds ok to me. More compelling than an out of sorts Clarke and a short, slow Reece.
The optimism over Rieko on the wing is doing my head in. Sure, maybe he'd go great, but it has been years since he played there, it's a position where players fall off cliffs at a young age, and he hasn't been displaying elusiveness or pace while playing at centre. It's in no way a sure thing, or even a good bet.
Caleb Clarke on the other hand, was genuinely good at international level last time the ABs played. -
@MN5 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@pakman said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
I couldn't bring myself to listen to more than 10 seconds of these two but Ioane on the wing sounds ok to me. More compelling than an out of sorts Clarke and a short, slow Reece.
The optimism over Rieko on the wing is doing my head in. Sure, maybe he'd go great, but it has been years since he played there, it's a position where players fall off cliffs at a young age, and he hasn't been displaying elusiveness or pace while playing at centre. It's in no way a sure thing, or even a good bet.
Caleb Clarke on the other hand, was genuinely good at international level last time the ABs played.@reprobate I have similar concerns, when you look at the old footage of reiko playing wing , his pace looks electrifying, I’m not sure he’s got that anymore.
It might be like Julian savea or Joe rok in their twilight years compared to the early years . -
Doubt he's lost much pace at all. I'd say he's still top 3 for pace in the squad.
The team that was selected for most of the games last year I believe was Razors preferred combo. He had many opportunities to select both ALB and Proctor more last year and he didn't.
Proctor didn't even feature in the match day 23 in Europe. ALB is coming back from injury. Every other midfielder is primarily a 12.
So I think Rieko is still in pole position to play most of the season at 13.
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Doubt he's lost much pace at all. I'd say he's still top 3 for pace in the squad.
The team that was selected for most of the games last year I believe was Razors preferred combo. He had many opportunities to select both ALB and Proctor more last year and he didn't.
Proctor didn't even feature in the match day 23 in Europe. ALB is coming back from injury. Every other midfielder is primarily a 12.
So I think Rieko is still in pole position to play most of the season at 13.
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Doubt he's lost much pace at all. I'd say he's still top 3 for pace in the squad.
The team that was selected for most of the games last year I believe was Razors preferred combo. He had many opportunities to select both ALB and Proctor more last year and he didn't.
Proctor didn't even feature in the match day 23 in Europe. Every other midfielder is primarily a 12.
So I think Rieko is still in pole position to play most of the season at 13.
Razor has had a whole off-season to think about his selections and even admitted he could have been a bit more innovative with some of his selections last year. I think we'll start to see some subtle changes in his preferred 15, starting with 13.
I wouldn't be surprised if Ioane started the 1st test at 13 and shifts to 11 later in the game, however, I do think Proctor will start at least one of the three tests. If Proctor can take his opportunity with two hands, I think Razor will begin to see him as the preferred 13 moving forward. I feel by the EOYT if Proctor remains injury free, he will become the incumbent 13 for the ABs.
I'd also like to see Tupaea start one of the three tests at 12, I think he definitely deserves an opportunity to push for that starting role as well. Jordie hasn't exactly locked down that position yet either.
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With ALB unlikely to be available for the first test, QT is the only genuine 12/13 utility option and I think Razor gave the strong indication that the option to go with a player like QT over Havili was because of that utility. I think he’s our best bench option (in a 5/3 split).
TNT is an interesting one because many pundits have been saying “he plays wing”. So a 12/wing option that doesn’t cover 13. Centre isn’t a position to be throwing makeshifts at so we need two very solid options available. 2nd 5 is where we could take more a calculated risk (but we shouldn’t need to by selecting QT).
There is certainly options and we could get some new and exciting combos to shake things up a bit.
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With ALB unlikely to be available for the first test, QT is the only genuine 12/13 utility option and I think Razor gave the strong indication that the option to go with a player like QT over Havili was because of that utility. I think he’s our best bench option (in a 5/3 split).
TNT is an interesting one because many pundits have been saying “he plays wing”. So a 12/wing option that doesn’t cover 13. Centre isn’t a position to be throwing makeshifts at so we need two very solid options available. 2nd 5 is where we could take more a calculated risk (but we shouldn’t need to by selecting QT).
There is certainly options and we could get some new and exciting combos to shake things up a bit.
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@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Hasn't QT played a little bit of wing for the Chiefs too?
Yeah, last year he spent quite a bit of time out there on his return.
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@ACT-Crusader if you start both Rieko and Proctor you don't need specialist 13 cover on the bench
@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@ACT-Crusader if you start both Rieko and Proctor you don't need specialist 13 cover on the bench
Agree, and that remains a live question.
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@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Hasn't QT played a little bit of wing for the Chiefs too?
Yeah, last year he spent quite a bit of time out there on his return.
@gt12 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Hasn't QT played a little bit of wing for the Chiefs too?
Yeah, last year he spent quite a bit of time out there on his return.
More a case of the Chiefs midfield was playing well at the time and there were some injuries / unavailability on the wing.
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@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Hasn't QT played a little bit of wing for the Chiefs too?
Yeah, last year he spent quite a bit of time out there on his return.
@gt12 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Hasn't QT played a little bit of wing for the Chiefs too?
Yeah, last year he spent quite a bit of time out there on his return.
That cover is really important to me - you would never QT to start there, but in the event of an early injury you do need someone who can play wing - or you risk it costing you the game. And in these days of 23 man rugby it is a real disadvantage if you need to have wing cover on the bench, because it simply isn't a position where you are going to be as knackered as the forwards after 55 minutes. I think QT has to be in the 23, and on form he probably deserves to be starting at 12.
I wouldn't mind seeing (to get 6:2):
Ratima, McKenzie, Clarke, Tupaea, Proctor, Jordan, Love. Bench: Roigard, TavatavanawaiHowever, I do think Jordan is our best fullback, and it's very debatable whether it's worth losing that to get 6:2. 5:3 with Love on the bench is a more likely scenario - though to be fair neither are likely as we don't drop Barretts.
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@MN5 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@pakman said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
I couldn't bring myself to listen to more than 10 seconds of these two but Ioane on the wing sounds ok to me. More compelling than an out of sorts Clarke and a short, slow Reece.
The optimism over Rieko on the wing is doing my head in. Sure, maybe he'd go great, but it has been years since he played there, it's a position where players fall off cliffs at a young age, and he hasn't been displaying elusiveness or pace while playing at centre. It's in no way a sure thing, or even a good bet.
Caleb Clarke on the other hand, was genuinely good at international level last time the ABs played.@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@MN5 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@pakman said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
I couldn't bring myself to listen to more than 10 seconds of these two but Ioane on the wing sounds ok to me. More compelling than an out of sorts Clarke and a short, slow Reece.
The optimism over Rieko on the wing is doing my head in. Sure, maybe he'd go great, but it has been years since he played there, it's a position where players fall off cliffs at a young age, and he hasn't been displaying elusiveness or pace while playing at centre. It's in no way a sure thing, or even a good bet.
Caleb Clarke on the other hand, was genuinely good at international level last time the ABs played.I thought the same, and then came across this clip at 12:58 in this video from the game that saved Fosters job in South Africa.
Ok, it was 2022 granted, but he had been shifted to centre at that stage.
He skins a couple of Springboks on the outside which ultimately ends up in us scoring the winning try.
There is also the try at 01:10:49 in this video in the draw against England in 2022.
Again playing at centre.
Sure he isnt as rapid as in the infancy of his career, but in both instances he gets the ball on the wing, has nobody outside him, so his mind is made up for him....pin the ears and go.
Maybe he suffers from paralysis analysis at centre.
This version of Rieko is faster than Caleb Clarke.
He might not go 80m untouched, but he can certainly stretch a defence and draw the attention of their wide D, which will open up holes elsewhere for the likes of Jordan or Proctor to find a weak shoulder.
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@gt12 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Hasn't QT played a little bit of wing for the Chiefs too?
Yeah, last year he spent quite a bit of time out there on his return.
That cover is really important to me - you would never QT to start there, but in the event of an early injury you do need someone who can play wing - or you risk it costing you the game. And in these days of 23 man rugby it is a real disadvantage if you need to have wing cover on the bench, because it simply isn't a position where you are going to be as knackered as the forwards after 55 minutes. I think QT has to be in the 23, and on form he probably deserves to be starting at 12.
I wouldn't mind seeing (to get 6:2):
Ratima, McKenzie, Clarke, Tupaea, Proctor, Jordan, Love. Bench: Roigard, TavatavanawaiHowever, I do think Jordan is our best fullback, and it's very debatable whether it's worth losing that to get 6:2. 5:3 with Love on the bench is a more likely scenario - though to be fair neither are likely as we don't drop Barretts.
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@gt12 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Hasn't QT played a little bit of wing for the Chiefs too?
Yeah, last year he spent quite a bit of time out there on his return.
That cover is really important to me - you would never QT to start there, but in the event of an early injury you do need someone who can play wing - or you risk it costing you the game. And in these days of 23 man rugby it is a real disadvantage if you need to have wing cover on the bench, because it simply isn't a position where you are going to be as knackered as the forwards after 55 minutes. I think QT has to be in the 23, and on form he probably deserves to be starting at 12.
I wouldn't mind seeing (to get 6:2):
Ratima, McKenzie, Clarke, Tupaea, Proctor, Jordan, Love. Bench: Roigard, TavatavanawaiHowever, I do think Jordan is our best fullback, and it's very debatable whether it's worth losing that to get 6:2. 5:3 with Love on the bench is a more likely scenario - though to be fair neither are likely as we don't drop Barretts.
Was just gonna say, three out of the 23 will DEFINITELY have Barrett as a surname.
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@gt12 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Hasn't QT played a little bit of wing for the Chiefs too?
Yeah, last year he spent quite a bit of time out there on his return.
That cover is really important to me - you would never QT to start there, but in the event of an early injury you do need someone who can play wing - or you risk it costing you the game. And in these days of 23 man rugby it is a real disadvantage if you need to have wing cover on the bench, because it simply isn't a position where you are going to be as knackered as the forwards after 55 minutes. I think QT has to be in the 23, and on form he probably deserves to be starting at 12.
I wouldn't mind seeing (to get 6:2):
Ratima, McKenzie, Clarke, Tupaea, Proctor, Jordan, Love. Bench: Roigard, TavatavanawaiHowever, I do think Jordan is our best fullback, and it's very debatable whether it's worth losing that to get 6:2. 5:3 with Love on the bench is a more likely scenario - though to be fair neither are likely as we don't drop Barretts.
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@gt12 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Hasn't QT played a little bit of wing for the Chiefs too?
Yeah, last year he spent quite a bit of time out there on his return.
That cover is really important to me - you would never QT to start there, but in the event of an early injury you do need someone who can play wing - or you risk it costing you the game. And in these days of 23 man rugby it is a real disadvantage if you need to have wing cover on the bench, because it simply isn't a position where you are going to be as knackered as the forwards after 55 minutes. I think QT has to be in the 23, and on form he probably deserves to be starting at 12.
I wouldn't mind seeing (to get 6:2):
Ratima, McKenzie, Clarke, Tupaea, Proctor, Jordan, Love. Bench: Roigard, TavatavanawaiHowever, I do think Jordan is our best fullback, and it's very debatable whether it's worth losing that to get 6:2. 5:3 with Love on the bench is a more likely scenario - though to be fair neither are likely as we don't drop Barretts.
I like that backline but would start Roigard over Ratima, but I think we need to leave Jordan at 15. Providing Love minutes off the bench this year (whether that's 10 or 15) will be the ideal way to go IMO.
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@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@gt12 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Hasn't QT played a little bit of wing for the Chiefs too?
Yeah, last year he spent quite a bit of time out there on his return.
That cover is really important to me - you would never QT to start there, but in the event of an early injury you do need someone who can play wing - or you risk it costing you the game. And in these days of 23 man rugby it is a real disadvantage if you need to have wing cover on the bench, because it simply isn't a position where you are going to be as knackered as the forwards after 55 minutes. I think QT has to be in the 23, and on form he probably deserves to be starting at 12.
I wouldn't mind seeing (to get 6:2):
Ratima, McKenzie, Clarke, Tupaea, Proctor, Jordan, Love. Bench: Roigard, TavatavanawaiHowever, I do think Jordan is our best fullback, and it's very debatable whether it's worth losing that to get 6:2. 5:3 with Love on the bench is a more likely scenario - though to be fair neither are likely as we don't drop Barretts.
I like that backline but would start Roigard over Ratima, but I think we need to leave Jordan at 15. Providing Love minutes off the bench this year (whether that's 10 or 15) will be the ideal way to go IMO.
@Canes4life said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@gt12 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Hasn't QT played a little bit of wing for the Chiefs too?
Yeah, last year he spent quite a bit of time out there on his return.
That cover is really important to me - you would never QT to start there, but in the event of an early injury you do need someone who can play wing - or you risk it costing you the game. And in these days of 23 man rugby it is a real disadvantage if you need to have wing cover on the bench, because it simply isn't a position where you are going to be as knackered as the forwards after 55 minutes. I think QT has to be in the 23, and on form he probably deserves to be starting at 12.
I wouldn't mind seeing (to get 6:2):
Ratima, McKenzie, Clarke, Tupaea, Proctor, Jordan, Love. Bench: Roigard, TavatavanawaiHowever, I do think Jordan is our best fullback, and it's very debatable whether it's worth losing that to get 6:2. 5:3 with Love on the bench is a more likely scenario - though to be fair neither are likely as we don't drop Barretts.
I like that backline but would start Roigard over Ratima, but I think we need to leave Jordan at 15. Providing Love minutes off the bench this year (whether that's 10 or 15) will be the ideal way to go IMO.
Yeah, if Tangitau wasn't injured I'd love to see him Jordan and Clarke as the back 3. And ideally I'd introduce Love off the bench too - but we saw last year trying to play at pace against teams that are bringing on lots of fresh forwards, we were the team being stuffed at the end of games - so I think that 6:2 bench is worth serious consideration.
My thoughts on Roigard are in a bit of a similar vein: his kicking game is the best we have at 9, and with our last 15-20 minutes tending to get pretty ratty, I think his best value right now to the ABs is to be on the field late in games still relatively fresh and getting us field position - taking pressure off either McKenzie (knackered from a million touches) or Love (newbie and the benefit of an established combo). I'd bring him on at half time or just after.
