All Blacks v France I
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Proctor was playing against the Drua version of Fiji and at what point does he learn to defend his channel?
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France I:
Proctor was playing against the Drua version of Fiji and at what point does he learn to defend his channel?
He needs to get used to the pace of test rugby obviously but he can’t do that sitting in the stands.
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I love the way everyone is complaining about our ineffective and poorly executed kicking game - short kicks, rubbers, misplaced bombs - like it’s anything new. How could we possibly expect anything new from the same guy that has given us this tripe for years? It’s literally BB’s identity these days
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
I love the way everyone is complaining about our ineffective and poorly executed kicking game - short kicks, rubbers, misplaced bombs - like it’s anything new. How could we possibly expect anything new from the same guy that has given us this tripe for years? It’s literally BB’s identity these days
His boss clearly allows him to do it
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@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
I thought the obstruction call was much clearer than the knock on by proctor
Get outta here. I’m with @antipodean here
Innocuous contact on a player that had no chance to make a tackle. Worst thing about it is that it encourages all defenders to just take a dive in similar situations. Just ludicrous.
The TMO should be forced to watch the last 10 years of Ireland tests
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There will be nashing of teeth and blaming of players (on here), but unless the ABs get into a test match mindset, they will struggle tactically. Focus on basics, protect the ball, kick long for territory, put it in front of your forward pack, and play percentages. The strikes will come from that.
There must be a mathematical formula for building pressure that equates to winning percentages. At the moment, we seem to be wayward artists, but I think we need engineers (Do you know what I mean?) -
Our players have not got a pragmatic bone in their bodies.
Sometimes you need to just form a ruck and recycle.
Beaudy boots it away, chip kicks to nobody or grubbers it into shins.
Its the opposite of the marginal gains theory that David Brailsford implemented at team sky.
As other posters alluded to, we dont catch kicks, we kick poorly ourselves and we have too many unforced errors.
It all adds up.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
I thought the obstruction call was much clearer than the knock on by proctor
Get outta here. I’m with @antipodean here
Innocuous contact on a player that had no chance to make a tackle. Worst thing about it is that it encourages all defenders to just take a dive in similar situations. Just ludicrous.
The TMO should be forced to watch the last 10 years of Ireland tests
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
I thought the obstruction call was much clearer than the knock on by proctor
Get outta here. I’m with @antipodean here
Innocuous contact on a player that had no chance to make a tackle. Worst thing about it is that it encourages all defenders to just take a dive in similar situations. Just ludicrous.
The TMO should be forced to watch the last 10 years of Ireland tests
Nah, if that French guy could run into the line he at least marks Beauden, meaning the next guy can slide. Maybe it doesn't stop the try, but the defence has been impeded.
It isn't consistently enforced unfortunately. -
Jordie has come back a much better player. Apart from a bad defensive misread giving up a try, he was very involved and accurate. Great to see.
Proctor is a better player than he showed tonight. Rieko isn't really a winger anymore, Clarke would have been better.I've ranted more than enough about BB kicking the ball away previously. We just can't build momentum or play territory if he's at 10. It doesn't help if:
Roigard good except for kicking the ball away once.
McKenzie good except for kicking the ball away once.
Tupaea good, except for kicking the ball away once.
Jordan good, except for kicking the ball away once.
At this point I think you'd have to say that kicking the ball away is our game plan - which is pretty fucking retarded if we can't win our first contestable kick until the 58th minute - and that's with our midget winger knocking himself out in minute 1.@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
and that's with our midget winger knocking himself out in minute 1.
Off a kick...
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@His-Bobness said in All Blacks v France I:
Are the TMOs on commission for spotting errors leading up to All Blacks tries?
I don't think the TMOs are partial to any particular international team, but I suspect they are trained in being absolutely ruthless and thorough at spotting anything that might bring a try into doubt.
It's a very long time since you heard the phrase "benefit of doubt to the attacking team" in international rugby.
That's fine if you want a game that appeals to the litigious and becomes a contest between who has the better defensive coaching set-up, but it does reduce the sense of spectacle and wonder. Attack is being unfairly discouraged and attacking teams like the ABs and attacking Rugby cultures like New Zealand are being disproportionately punished.
@sparky Which is my point. Foster says in his book that the head of the referees panel at World Rugby told Jaco Peyper that four yellow cards should have been awarded against the ABs during the first test against Ireland at Eden Park in 2022 which they won 42-10.
*“I couldn’t believe World Rugby held that view of the game, and my antennae went up. It was surely a bad sign that the next Test’s match officials were being told by their boss that the All Blacks had got away with murder the week before. And, wouldn’t you know it, after 30 minutes of the Test in Dunedin, we had been shown two yellow cards and a red. It was the red card to prop Angus Ta’avao that threw the game into chaos, and highlighted rugby’s struggle to build a framework of laws that works for the modern game.”
Then, of course in the World Cup final the ABs were undone by a dubious red card decision and then a disallowed try when the TMO went back too many phases, according to the law, to judge a knock-on.
“The final was marred, as an occasion, by the inflexibility and the inadequacies of the current legislative framework around head collisions, and that was compounded by the difficulty officials have in applying the law consistently,” Foster writes. “As a sport, we have to be brave enough to admit we don’t have this area right yet. It is too often negatively impacting big games and putting people off watching rugby.”
I don’t think there is any question that officials, under the influence of senior decision-makers (who are in turn being pressured by the weight of money in northern hemisphere rugby) are policing the All Blacks differently. If happens far too frequently to be coincidental. And when you have an unassuming man like Foster, who to his credit still applauded South Africa, saying something in the administration of the sport is fundamentally broken, I think you need to sit up and pay attention.
There is no way, for instance, that three disallowed tries courtesy of TMO decisions would stand in the NRL without some official being hung from the nearest yard arm.
Rugby Union is corrupt. It still plays at being the gentleman’s game, but the money is talking.
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Our players have not got a pragmatic bone in their bodies.
Sometimes you need to just form a ruck and recycle.
Beaudy boots it away, chip kicks to nobody or grubbers it into shins.
Its the opposite of the marginal gains theory that David Brailsford implemented at team sky.
As other posters alluded to, we dont catch kicks, we kick poorly ourselves and we have too many unforced errors.
It all adds up.
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If BB was over ruling the coaches he wouldn’t be starting so often. As @reprobate said it seems clear it’s the ABs game plan. If you don’t like the tactics blame Robertson
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@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
I thought the obstruction call was much clearer than the knock on by proctor
Get outta here. I’m with @antipodean here
Innocuous contact on a player that had no chance to make a tackle. Worst thing about it is that it encourages all defenders to just take a dive in similar situations. Just ludicrous.
The TMO should be forced to watch the last 10 years of Ireland tests
Nah, if that French guy could run into the line he at least marks Beauden, meaning the next guy can slide. Maybe it doesn't stop the try, but the defence has been impeded.
It isn't consistently enforced unfortunately.@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
I thought the obstruction call was much clearer than the knock on by proctor
Get outta here. I’m with @antipodean here
Innocuous contact on a player that had no chance to make a tackle. Worst thing about it is that it encourages all defenders to just take a dive in similar situations. Just ludicrous.
The TMO should be forced to watch the last 10 years of Ireland tests
Nah, if that French guy could run into the line he at least marks Beauden, meaning the next guy can slide. Maybe it doesn't stop the try, but the defence has been impeded.
It isn't consistently enforced unfortunately.Sorry but that’s nonsense. There was no contact and you’re making a massive leap to suggest “he might have got there if he ran the right angle to the right spot with the right pace to enable his teammate to do something else”
The lack of contact was stark, and as I said, you’re now just going to see defenders not try to make the effort. Why would you when you can take (or wait for) a tiny bit of contact then go down in a screaming heap?
Obstruction should be clear and obvious
This was definitely not
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@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
I thought the obstruction call was much clearer than the knock on by proctor
Get outta here. I’m with @antipodean here
Innocuous contact on a player that had no chance to make a tackle. Worst thing about it is that it encourages all defenders to just take a dive in similar situations. Just ludicrous.
The TMO should be forced to watch the last 10 years of Ireland tests
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
I thought the obstruction call was much clearer than the knock on by proctor
Get outta here. I’m with @antipodean here
Innocuous contact on a player that had no chance to make a tackle. Worst thing about it is that it encourages all defenders to just take a dive in similar situations. Just ludicrous.
The TMO should be forced to watch the last 10 years of Ireland tests
That was my initial take, but replays showed it was a full on block, BB clearly ran behind him and the defender could have pressed forward and put pressure on the attack if he wasn't obstructed. He was full on checked by Tosi.
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@Frank said in All Blacks v France I:
Rieko didn't look dangerous on the wing at all.
Goes to ground easily.2025 Rieko on the wing is not 2017 Rieko on the wing.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France I:
@Frank said in All Blacks v France I:
Rieko didn't look dangerous on the wing at all.
Goes to ground easily.2025 Rieko on the wing is not 2017 Rieko on the wing.
He made 3 linebreaks. Which is a lot for any player at test level against a tier 1 country in a single game.
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If BB was over ruling the coaches he wouldn’t be starting so often. As @reprobate said it seems clear it’s the ABs game plan. If you don’t like the tactics blame Robertson
@Duluth said in All Blacks v France I:
If BB was over ruling the coaches he wouldn’t be starting so often. As @reprobate said it seems clear it’s the ABs game plan. If you don’t like the tactics blame Robertson
I do. Just like a blamed Fozzie, and late era Shag. Cotter and Penney's game plans are more compatible for tests
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@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
I thought the obstruction call was much clearer than the knock on by proctor
Get outta here. I’m with @antipodean here
Innocuous contact on a player that had no chance to make a tackle. Worst thing about it is that it encourages all defenders to just take a dive in similar situations. Just ludicrous.
The TMO should be forced to watch the last 10 years of Ireland tests
Nah, if that French guy could run into the line he at least marks Beauden, meaning the next guy can slide. Maybe it doesn't stop the try, but the defence has been impeded.
It isn't consistently enforced unfortunately.@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
I thought the obstruction call was much clearer than the knock on by proctor
Get outta here. I’m with @antipodean here
Innocuous contact on a player that had no chance to make a tackle. Worst thing about it is that it encourages all defenders to just take a dive in similar situations. Just ludicrous.
The TMO should be forced to watch the last 10 years of Ireland tests
Nah, if that French guy could run into the line he at least marks Beauden, meaning the next guy can slide. Maybe it doesn't stop the try, but the defence has been impeded.
It isn't consistently enforced unfortunately.The defender outside of the "impeded" one stayed on his man. France were just outnumbered and got done.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
I thought the obstruction call was much clearer than the knock on by proctor
Get outta here. I’m with @antipodean here
Innocuous contact on a player that had no chance to make a tackle. Worst thing about it is that it encourages all defenders to just take a dive in similar situations. Just ludicrous.
The TMO should be forced to watch the last 10 years of Ireland tests
Nah, if that French guy could run into the line he at least marks Beauden, meaning the next guy can slide. Maybe it doesn't stop the try, but the defence has been impeded.
It isn't consistently enforced unfortunately.Sorry but that’s nonsense. There was no contact and you’re making a massive leap to suggest “he might have got there if he ran the right angle to the right spot with the right pace to enable his teammate to do something else”
The lack of contact was stark, and as I said, you’re now just going to see defenders not try to make the effort. Why would you when you can take (or wait for) a tiny bit of contact then go down in a screaming heap?
Obstruction should be clear and obvious
This was definitely not
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Our players have not got a pragmatic bone in their bodies.
Sometimes you need to just form a ruck and recycle.
Beaudy boots it away, chip kicks to nobody or grubbers it into shins.
Its the opposite of the marginal gains theory that David Brailsford implemented at team sky.
As other posters alluded to, we dont catch kicks, we kick poorly ourselves and we have too many unforced errors.
It all adds up.
@Jet said in All Blacks v France I:
Our players have not got a pragmatic bone in their bodies.
Sometimes you need to just form a ruck and recycle.
Beaudy boots it away, chip kicks to nobody or grubbers it into shins.
Its the opposite of the marginal gains theory that David Brailsford implemented at team sky.
As other posters alluded to, we dont catch kicks, we kick poorly ourselves and we have too many unforced errors.
It all adds up.
The kicking goes beyond just Beauden though, he just does it the most as he's at 10. A range of players kicked ball away, in the lead up to Proctors no-try DMac tried a stupid grubber that luckily bounced off the defenders legs back into his hands.
It's weird, since 2017 it doesn't seem to matter who the AB coach is, we just play the same stupid tactics whether it's Hansen, Foster or Razor. The only time in my memory over that period where the ABs have actually played proper test match footy was the quarter, semi and final of the last WC, and we damn near won the thing despite the referring Gods shitting on us in the final. Why isn't that the blueprint?!
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If BB was over ruling the coaches he wouldn’t be starting so often. As @reprobate said it seems clear it’s the ABs game plan. If you don’t like the tactics blame Robertson
@Duluth said in All Blacks v France I:
If BB was over ruling the coaches he wouldn’t be starting so often. As @reprobate said it seems clear it’s the ABs game plan. If you don’t like the tactics blame Robertson
Don’t completely disagree. But I also wonder if the coaches don’t think BB can play another way, but they still feel he’s the best option. Which would be pretty disappointing too
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@sparky Which is my point. Foster says in his book that the head of the referees panel at World Rugby told Jaco Peyper that four yellow cards should have been awarded against the ABs during the first test against Ireland at Eden Park in 2022 which they won 42-10.
*“I couldn’t believe World Rugby held that view of the game, and my antennae went up. It was surely a bad sign that the next Test’s match officials were being told by their boss that the All Blacks had got away with murder the week before. And, wouldn’t you know it, after 30 minutes of the Test in Dunedin, we had been shown two yellow cards and a red. It was the red card to prop Angus Ta’avao that threw the game into chaos, and highlighted rugby’s struggle to build a framework of laws that works for the modern game.”
Then, of course in the World Cup final the ABs were undone by a dubious red card decision and then a disallowed try when the TMO went back too many phases, according to the law, to judge a knock-on.
“The final was marred, as an occasion, by the inflexibility and the inadequacies of the current legislative framework around head collisions, and that was compounded by the difficulty officials have in applying the law consistently,” Foster writes. “As a sport, we have to be brave enough to admit we don’t have this area right yet. It is too often negatively impacting big games and putting people off watching rugby.”
I don’t think there is any question that officials, under the influence of senior decision-makers (who are in turn being pressured by the weight of money in northern hemisphere rugby) are policing the All Blacks differently. If happens far too frequently to be coincidental. And when you have an unassuming man like Foster, who to his credit still applauded South Africa, saying something in the administration of the sport is fundamentally broken, I think you need to sit up and pay attention.
There is no way, for instance, that three disallowed tries courtesy of TMO decisions would stand in the NRL without some official being hung from the nearest yard arm.
Rugby Union is corrupt. It still plays at being the gentleman’s game, but the money is talking.
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks v France I:
@sparky Which is my point. Foster says in his book that the head of the referees panel at World Rugby told Jaco Peyper that four yellow cards should have been awarded against the ABs during the first test against Ireland at Eden Park in 2022 which they won 42-10.
*“I couldn’t believe World Rugby held that view of the game, and my antennae went up. It was surely a bad sign that the next Test’s match officials were being told by their boss that the All Blacks had got away with murder the week before. And, wouldn’t you know it, after 30 minutes of the Test in Dunedin, we had been shown two yellow cards and a red. It was the red card to prop Angus Ta’avao that threw the game into chaos, and highlighted rugby’s struggle to build a framework of laws that works for the modern game.”
Then, of course in the World Cup final the ABs were undone by a dubious red card decision and then a disallowed try when the TMO went back too many phases, according to the law, to judge a knock-on.
“The final was marred, as an occasion, by the inflexibility and the inadequacies of the current legislative framework around head collisions, and that was compounded by the difficulty officials have in applying the law consistently,” Foster writes. “As a sport, we have to be brave enough to admit we don’t have this area right yet. It is too often negatively impacting big games and putting people off watching rugby.”
I don’t think there is any question that officials, under the influence of senior decision-makers (who are in turn being pressured by the weight of money in northern hemisphere rugby) are policing the All Blacks differently. If happens far too frequently to be coincidental. And when you have an unassuming man like Foster, who to his credit still applauded South Africa, saying something in the administration of the sport is fundamentally broken, I think you need to sit up and pay attention.
There is no way, for instance, that three disallowed tries courtesy of TMO decisions would stand in the NRL without some official being hung from the nearest yard arm.
Rugby Union is corrupt. It still plays at being the gentleman’s game, but the money is talking.
Great post......
But its why im sooooooo fucking vexed with how "we" have conducted ourselves since the 2017 Lions tour.
The only way to meet this perceived corruption is Rassie style. Bleat, make videos, meme the shit out of it like the Esterhuizen tackling practise video. Hold mirrors up to the refereeing inadequacies and inconsistencies.
If it only comes out in your autobiography its already too late.
Nice guys finish last, and we have been too nice for too long, from the top down.
