All Blacks v France I
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks v France I:
@sparky said in All Blacks v France I:
@Canes4life I love Billy to bits, but I fear he flunked it tonight on the big occasion.
Quinn Tupaea should start at 13 next week IMHO.
I’ll be very surprised if Proctor doesn’t start in Welly. The last thing you want to do is ruin a young players confidence by dropping him after one test. If he doesn’t perform next week then fair enough.
I thought the disallowed try on Proctor was harsh, he did bloody well to get to the line there.
Those decisions need to be watched at full speed.
There was no material knock on there for me.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v France I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v France I:
@sparky said in All Blacks v France I:
@Canes4life Generally true, but even I thought Billy Prcotor was poor tonight.
Surely you start him again, it’s literally his first start. He’ll only going to get better as he gets more comfortable.
He started vs Fiji last year didn't he?
Oh yup you’re correct. He just needs time, he’s classy enough to bounce back. He’s shown he’s the best centre in New Zealand, just needs to put it all together. No better chance at home next week.
He's shown he's the best Super Rugby centre in NZ. Test wise jury is still out
I would start him next week too. There will be enough changes already with Reece out.
He's been poor 100% in Tests. Terrible defender and created absolutely nothing tonight - the very thing Rieko gets shit for.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v France I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v France I:
@sparky said in All Blacks v France I:
@Canes4life Generally true, but even I thought Billy Prcotor was poor tonight.
Surely you start him again, it’s literally his first start. He’ll only going to get better as he gets more comfortable.
He started vs Fiji last year didn't he?
Oh yup you’re correct. He just needs time, he’s classy enough to bounce back. He’s shown he’s the best centre in New Zealand, just needs to put it all together. No better chance at home next week.
He's shown he's the best Super Rugby centre in NZ. Test wise jury is still out
I would start him next week too. There will be enough changes already with Reece out.
He's been poor 100% in Tests. Terrible defender and created absolutely nothing tonight - the very thing Rieko gets shit for.
Didn’t most people on here have Billy player of the match against Fiji? I’m not denying that he was poor tonight because he was, but surely you keep him there, he’s shown time and time again that he’s a much better player than what he showed tonight.. Rieko had years of playing centre and never got better at test level. Proctor deserves the same opportunity, just needs time in the jersey and he’ll be fine.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v France I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v France I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v France I:
@sparky said in All Blacks v France I:
@Canes4life Generally true, but even I thought Billy Prcotor was poor tonight.
Surely you start him again, it’s literally his first start. He’ll only going to get better as he gets more comfortable.
He started vs Fiji last year didn't he?
Oh yup you’re correct. He just needs time, he’s classy enough to bounce back. He’s shown he’s the best centre in New Zealand, just needs to put it all together. No better chance at home next week.
He's shown he's the best Super Rugby centre in NZ. Test wise jury is still out
I would start him next week too. There will be enough changes already with Reece out.
He's been poor 100% in Tests. Terrible defender and created absolutely nothing tonight - the very thing Rieko gets shit for.
Didn’t most people on here have Billy player of the match against Fiji? I’m not denying that he was poor tonight because he was, but surely you keep him there, he’s shown time and time again that he’s a much better player than what he showed tonight.. Rieko had years of playing centre and never got better at test level. Proctor deserves the same opportunity, just needs time in the jersey and he’ll be fine.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v France I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v France I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v France I:
@sparky said in All Blacks v France I:
@Canes4life Generally true, but even I thought Billy Prcotor was poor tonight.
Surely you start him again, it’s literally his first start. He’ll only going to get better as he gets more comfortable.
He started vs Fiji last year didn't he?
Oh yup you’re correct. He just needs time, he’s classy enough to bounce back. He’s shown he’s the best centre in New Zealand, just needs to put it all together. No better chance at home next week.
He's shown he's the best Super Rugby centre in NZ. Test wise jury is still out
I would start him next week too. There will be enough changes already with Reece out.
He's been poor 100% in Tests. Terrible defender and created absolutely nothing tonight - the very thing Rieko gets shit for.
Didn’t most people on here have Billy player of the match against Fiji? I’m not denying that he was poor tonight because he was, but surely you keep him there. Rieko had years of playing centre and never got better at test level. Proctor just needs time in the jersey and he’ll be fine.
Definitely needs another go
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v France I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v France I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v France I:
@sparky said in All Blacks v France I:
@Canes4life Generally true, but even I thought Billy Prcotor was poor tonight.
Surely you start him again, it’s literally his first start. He’ll only going to get better as he gets more comfortable.
He started vs Fiji last year didn't he?
Oh yup you’re correct. He just needs time, he’s classy enough to bounce back. He’s shown he’s the best centre in New Zealand, just needs to put it all together. No better chance at home next week.
He's shown he's the best Super Rugby centre in NZ. Test wise jury is still out
I would start him next week too. There will be enough changes already with Reece out.
He's been poor 100% in Tests. Terrible defender and created absolutely nothing tonight - the very thing Rieko gets shit for.
Didn’t most people on here have Billy player of the match against Fiji? I’m not denying that he was poor tonight because he was, but surely you keep him there, he’s shown time and time again that he’s a much better player than what he showed tonight.. Rieko had years of playing centre and never got better at test level. Proctor deserves the same opportunity, just needs time in the jersey and he’ll be fine.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v France I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v France I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v France I:
@sparky said in All Blacks v France I:
@Canes4life Generally true, but even I thought Billy Prcotor was poor tonight.
Surely you start him again, it’s literally his first start. He’ll only going to get better as he gets more comfortable.
He started vs Fiji last year didn't he?
Oh yup you’re correct. He just needs time, he’s classy enough to bounce back. He’s shown he’s the best centre in New Zealand, just needs to put it all together. No better chance at home next week.
He's shown he's the best Super Rugby centre in NZ. Test wise jury is still out
I would start him next week too. There will be enough changes already with Reece out.
He's been poor 100% in Tests. Terrible defender and created absolutely nothing tonight - the very thing Rieko gets shit for.
Didn’t most people on here have Billy player of the match against Fiji? I’m not denying that he was poor tonight because he was, but surely you keep him there, he’s shown time and time again that he’s a much better player than what he showed tonight.. Rieko had years of playing centre and never got better at test level. Proctor deserves the same opportunity, just needs time in the jersey and he’ll be fine.
You're thinking of ALB...
Proctor was 2nd equal with Clarke though. -
I love the way everyone is complaining about our ineffective and poorly executed kicking game - short kicks, rubbers, misplaced bombs - like it’s anything new. How could we possibly expect anything new from the same guy that has given us this tripe for years? It’s literally BB’s identity these days
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Proctor was playing against the Drua version of Fiji and at what point does he learn to defend his channel?
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France I:
Proctor was playing against the Drua version of Fiji and at what point does he learn to defend his channel?
He needs to get used to the pace of test rugby obviously but he can’t do that sitting in the stands.
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I love the way everyone is complaining about our ineffective and poorly executed kicking game - short kicks, rubbers, misplaced bombs - like it’s anything new. How could we possibly expect anything new from the same guy that has given us this tripe for years? It’s literally BB’s identity these days
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
I love the way everyone is complaining about our ineffective and poorly executed kicking game - short kicks, rubbers, misplaced bombs - like it’s anything new. How could we possibly expect anything new from the same guy that has given us this tripe for years? It’s literally BB’s identity these days
His boss clearly allows him to do it
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@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
I thought the obstruction call was much clearer than the knock on by proctor
Get outta here. I’m with @antipodean here
Innocuous contact on a player that had no chance to make a tackle. Worst thing about it is that it encourages all defenders to just take a dive in similar situations. Just ludicrous.
The TMO should be forced to watch the last 10 years of Ireland tests
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There will be nashing of teeth and blaming of players (on here), but unless the ABs get into a test match mindset, they will struggle tactically. Focus on basics, protect the ball, kick long for territory, put it in front of your forward pack, and play percentages. The strikes will come from that.
There must be a mathematical formula for building pressure that equates to winning percentages. At the moment, we seem to be wayward artists, but I think we need engineers (Do you know what I mean?) -
Our players have not got a pragmatic bone in their bodies.
Sometimes you need to just form a ruck and recycle.
Beaudy boots it away, chip kicks to nobody or grubbers it into shins.
Its the opposite of the marginal gains theory that David Brailsford implemented at team sky.
As other posters alluded to, we dont catch kicks, we kick poorly ourselves and we have too many unforced errors.
It all adds up.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
I thought the obstruction call was much clearer than the knock on by proctor
Get outta here. I’m with @antipodean here
Innocuous contact on a player that had no chance to make a tackle. Worst thing about it is that it encourages all defenders to just take a dive in similar situations. Just ludicrous.
The TMO should be forced to watch the last 10 years of Ireland tests
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
I thought the obstruction call was much clearer than the knock on by proctor
Get outta here. I’m with @antipodean here
Innocuous contact on a player that had no chance to make a tackle. Worst thing about it is that it encourages all defenders to just take a dive in similar situations. Just ludicrous.
The TMO should be forced to watch the last 10 years of Ireland tests
Nah, if that French guy could run into the line he at least marks Beauden, meaning the next guy can slide. Maybe it doesn't stop the try, but the defence has been impeded.
It isn't consistently enforced unfortunately. -
Jordie has come back a much better player. Apart from a bad defensive misread giving up a try, he was very involved and accurate. Great to see.
Proctor is a better player than he showed tonight. Rieko isn't really a winger anymore, Clarke would have been better.I've ranted more than enough about BB kicking the ball away previously. We just can't build momentum or play territory if he's at 10. It doesn't help if:
Roigard good except for kicking the ball away once.
McKenzie good except for kicking the ball away once.
Tupaea good, except for kicking the ball away once.
Jordan good, except for kicking the ball away once.
At this point I think you'd have to say that kicking the ball away is our game plan - which is pretty fucking retarded if we can't win our first contestable kick until the 58th minute - and that's with our midget winger knocking himself out in minute 1.@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
and that's with our midget winger knocking himself out in minute 1.
Off a kick...
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@His-Bobness said in All Blacks v France I:
Are the TMOs on commission for spotting errors leading up to All Blacks tries?
I don't think the TMOs are partial to any particular international team, but I suspect they are trained in being absolutely ruthless and thorough at spotting anything that might bring a try into doubt.
It's a very long time since you heard the phrase "benefit of doubt to the attacking team" in international rugby.
That's fine if you want a game that appeals to the litigious and becomes a contest between who has the better defensive coaching set-up, but it does reduce the sense of spectacle and wonder. Attack is being unfairly discouraged and attacking teams like the ABs and attacking Rugby cultures like New Zealand are being disproportionately punished.
@sparky Which is my point. Foster says in his book that the head of the referees panel at World Rugby told Jaco Peyper that four yellow cards should have been awarded against the ABs during the first test against Ireland at Eden Park in 2022 which they won 42-10.
*“I couldn’t believe World Rugby held that view of the game, and my antennae went up. It was surely a bad sign that the next Test’s match officials were being told by their boss that the All Blacks had got away with murder the week before. And, wouldn’t you know it, after 30 minutes of the Test in Dunedin, we had been shown two yellow cards and a red. It was the red card to prop Angus Ta’avao that threw the game into chaos, and highlighted rugby’s struggle to build a framework of laws that works for the modern game.”
Then, of course in the World Cup final the ABs were undone by a dubious red card decision and then a disallowed try when the TMO went back too many phases, according to the law, to judge a knock-on.
“The final was marred, as an occasion, by the inflexibility and the inadequacies of the current legislative framework around head collisions, and that was compounded by the difficulty officials have in applying the law consistently,” Foster writes. “As a sport, we have to be brave enough to admit we don’t have this area right yet. It is too often negatively impacting big games and putting people off watching rugby.”
I don’t think there is any question that officials, under the influence of senior decision-makers (who are in turn being pressured by the weight of money in northern hemisphere rugby) are policing the All Blacks differently. If happens far too frequently to be coincidental. And when you have an unassuming man like Foster, who to his credit still applauded South Africa, saying something in the administration of the sport is fundamentally broken, I think you need to sit up and pay attention.
There is no way, for instance, that three disallowed tries courtesy of TMO decisions would stand in the NRL without some official being hung from the nearest yard arm.
Rugby Union is corrupt. It still plays at being the gentleman’s game, but the money is talking.
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Our players have not got a pragmatic bone in their bodies.
Sometimes you need to just form a ruck and recycle.
Beaudy boots it away, chip kicks to nobody or grubbers it into shins.
Its the opposite of the marginal gains theory that David Brailsford implemented at team sky.
As other posters alluded to, we dont catch kicks, we kick poorly ourselves and we have too many unforced errors.
It all adds up.
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If BB was over ruling the coaches he wouldn’t be starting so often. As @reprobate said it seems clear it’s the ABs game plan. If you don’t like the tactics blame Robertson
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@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
I thought the obstruction call was much clearer than the knock on by proctor
Get outta here. I’m with @antipodean here
Innocuous contact on a player that had no chance to make a tackle. Worst thing about it is that it encourages all defenders to just take a dive in similar situations. Just ludicrous.
The TMO should be forced to watch the last 10 years of Ireland tests
Nah, if that French guy could run into the line he at least marks Beauden, meaning the next guy can slide. Maybe it doesn't stop the try, but the defence has been impeded.
It isn't consistently enforced unfortunately.@reprobate said in All Blacks v France I:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
I thought the obstruction call was much clearer than the knock on by proctor
Get outta here. I’m with @antipodean here
Innocuous contact on a player that had no chance to make a tackle. Worst thing about it is that it encourages all defenders to just take a dive in similar situations. Just ludicrous.
The TMO should be forced to watch the last 10 years of Ireland tests
Nah, if that French guy could run into the line he at least marks Beauden, meaning the next guy can slide. Maybe it doesn't stop the try, but the defence has been impeded.
It isn't consistently enforced unfortunately.Sorry but that’s nonsense. There was no contact and you’re making a massive leap to suggest “he might have got there if he ran the right angle to the right spot with the right pace to enable his teammate to do something else”
The lack of contact was stark, and as I said, you’re now just going to see defenders not try to make the effort. Why would you when you can take (or wait for) a tiny bit of contact then go down in a screaming heap?
Obstruction should be clear and obvious
This was definitely not
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@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
I thought the obstruction call was much clearer than the knock on by proctor
Get outta here. I’m with @antipodean here
Innocuous contact on a player that had no chance to make a tackle. Worst thing about it is that it encourages all defenders to just take a dive in similar situations. Just ludicrous.
The TMO should be forced to watch the last 10 years of Ireland tests
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France I:
I thought the obstruction call was much clearer than the knock on by proctor
Get outta here. I’m with @antipodean here
Innocuous contact on a player that had no chance to make a tackle. Worst thing about it is that it encourages all defenders to just take a dive in similar situations. Just ludicrous.
The TMO should be forced to watch the last 10 years of Ireland tests
That was my initial take, but replays showed it was a full on block, BB clearly ran behind him and the defender could have pressed forward and put pressure on the attack if he wasn't obstructed. He was full on checked by Tosi.
