2025 All Blacks v France series
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@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@MN5 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Is Holland noted as a ball carrier ?
Not really.
Looks more Luke Romano than Brodie Retallick to me at this stage. I am just not seeing what others keep saying they do.
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@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@MN5 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Is Holland noted as a ball carrier ?
Not really.
Looks more Luke Romano than Brodie Retallick to me at this stage. I am just not seeing what others keep saying they do.
@ARHS said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@MN5 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Is Holland noted as a ball carrier ?
Not really.
Looks more Luke Romano than Brodie Retallick to me at this stage. I am just not seeing what others keep saying they do.
His workrate and lineout work is more Retallick/Whitelock than Romano.
He's got good hands, and while not a powerful explosive runner, he carried reasonably for the ABXV last year, notably supporting close in breaks to maintain momentum and giving a few nice offloads. -
@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@MN5 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Is Holland noted as a ball carrier ?
Not really.
Looks more Luke Romano than Brodie Retallick to me at this stage. I am just not seeing what others keep saying they do.
@ARHS said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@MN5 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Is Holland noted as a ball carrier ?
Not really.
Looks more Luke Romano than Brodie Retallick to me at this stage. I am just not seeing what others keep saying they do.
He's huge, he's money in the lineouts and restarts, good handling in phase play, he can scrum and he has a big motor. There's plenty to like without the ball running.
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He is quite decent in open play. Has made some storming runs for both Otago and the Landers. Has decent pace off the mark.
Here is one that stuck out from me, a few seasons ago. From around 2.20 in -
His close in ball running will improve.
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Posters on this Fern crack me up, a lot of people on here are so quick to judge. Cant we just let some of these young guys play at least 10 tests before piling on judgement. Test footy isn’t Super Rugby, let’s just give some of these guys a chance before proclaiming they aren’t good at a certain component of the game. They’ve been picked for a reason so let’s have a bit of faith in the selectors that they’ll get the best out of them over time.
Holland for example was very solid in his first test, definitely not the finished product but you’d have to be an idiot to think he was at such a young age.
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Posters on this Fern crack me up, a lot of people on here are so quick to judge. Cant we just let some of these young guys play at least 10 tests before piling on judgement. Test footy isn’t Super Rugby, let’s just give some of these guys a chance before proclaiming they aren’t good at a certain component of the game. They’ve been picked for a reason so let’s have a bit of faith in the selectors that they’ll get the best out of them over time.
Holland for example was very solid in his first test, definitely not the finished product but you’d have to be an idiot to think he was at such a young age.
@Canes4life said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Posters on this Fern crack me up, a lot of people on here are so quick to judge. Cant we just let some of these young guys play at least 10 tests before piling on judgement.
About 10% of players who play for the All Blacks have 1 cap, slightly over 1 in 3 have 5 caps or fewer.
Perform or you'll be moved on. The All Blacks isn't a nice, safe environment for players to discover themselves. It's a brutal arena. Perform at an elite level or move on. Excellence is demanded.
Judging players is what All Blacks fans have been doing since 1903 and long may that continue!
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@Canes4life said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Posters on this Fern crack me up, a lot of people on here are so quick to judge. Cant we just let some of these young guys play at least 10 tests before piling on judgement.
About 10% of players who play for the All Blacks have 1 cap, slightly over 1 in 3 have 5 caps or fewer.
Perform or you'll be moved on. The All Blacks isn't a nice, safe environment for players to discover themselves. It's a brutal arena. Perform at an elite level or move on. Excellence is demanded.
Judging players is what All Blacks fans have been doing since 1903 and long may that continue!
@sparky said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@Canes4life said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Posters on this Fern crack me up, a lot of people on here are so quick to judge. Cant we just let some of these young guys play at least 10 tests before piling on judgement.
About 10% of players who play for the All Blacks have 1 cap, slightly over 1 in 3 have 5 caps or fewer.
Perform or you'll be moved on. The All Blacks isn't a nice, safe environment for players to discover themselves. It's a brutal arena. Perform at an elite level or move on. Excellence is demanded.
Judging players is what All Blacks fans have been doing since 1903 and long may that continue!
Yeah but most of those players are the Brett Cameron’s and Dallas McLeod’s of this world who only really got a chance because of injuries.
When we are judging players that could be 50-100+ test All Blacks, I’m happy to give them more time in the saddle. No one is the finished product after a couple of tests. If we judged Nonu (as an example) so quickly then he would have never become arguably the greatest 12 we’ve ever seen in World Rugby.
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@sparky said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@Canes4life said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Posters on this Fern crack me up, a lot of people on here are so quick to judge. Cant we just let some of these young guys play at least 10 tests before piling on judgement.
About 10% of players who play for the All Blacks have 1 cap, slightly over 1 in 3 have 5 caps or fewer.
Perform or you'll be moved on. The All Blacks isn't a nice, safe environment for players to discover themselves. It's a brutal arena. Perform at an elite level or move on. Excellence is demanded.
Judging players is what All Blacks fans have been doing since 1903 and long may that continue!
Yeah but most of those players are the Brett Cameron’s and Dallas McLeod’s of this world who only really got a chance because of injuries.
When we are judging players that could be 50-100+ test All Blacks, I’m happy to give them more time in the saddle. No one is the finished product after a couple of tests. If we judged Nonu (as an example) so quickly then he would have never become arguably the greatest 12 we’ve ever seen in World Rugby.
Using your example, Ma'a Nonu was dropped a few times and yeah I was unhappy about each of those and argued against them on here at the time if I remember correctly.
But each time he got dropped, he came back stronger and more professional. It was interesting reading the other day Ben White (half back for Toulon, Scotland and the British and Irish Lions) say that he's never encountered a more professional Rugby player than Ma'a Nonu.
That's what the brutal All Blacks environment produces. Skilled athletes who are craftsmen.
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Another thing I like about Holland is he has good hands - comes in handy not only in the lineout and restart but in general play as well - it's an underrated aspect - whereas someone like Darry is a bit of a goober handling wise - these little things add up at the top level.
I've never noticed handling issues from Darry.
Blues really missed him this year. He's a another strong carrier and good close to the line.
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@Bovidae said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
This photo shows how under-sized our loosies are:
Being the glass is half full fellow that I am it's also a case of a fucken tall prop and a tall lock.
Kirifi is a unit but yes, an undersized one. There's a place for him provided there's bigger options at 6 and 8.
Is Holland noted as a ball carrier ? I thought he went to ground pretty easy a few times last night. Certainly no Eben Etzebeth in that department ( yet )
@MN5 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@Bovidae said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
This photo shows how under-sized our loosies are:
Being the glass is half full fellow that I am it's also a case of a fucken tall prop and a tall lock.
Kirifi is a unit but yes, an undersized one. There's a place for him provided there's bigger options at 6 and 8.
Is Holland noted as a ball carrier ? I thought he went to ground pretty easy a few times last night. Certainly no Eben Etzebeth in that department ( yet )
Lio Willie basically looks the same size as Kirifi in this photo.
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@MN5 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@Bovidae said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
This photo shows how under-sized our loosies are:
Being the glass is half full fellow that I am it's also a case of a fucken tall prop and a tall lock.
Kirifi is a unit but yes, an undersized one. There's a place for him provided there's bigger options at 6 and 8.
Is Holland noted as a ball carrier ? I thought he went to ground pretty easy a few times last night. Certainly no Eben Etzebeth in that department ( yet )
Lio Willie basically looks the same size as Kirifi in this photo.
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Following the Mel Gibson school of thought: short men with a big head stand in front and lean towards the camera...
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@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@MN5 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Is Holland noted as a ball carrier ?
Not really.
Looks more Luke Romano than Brodie Retallick to me at this stage. I am just not seeing what others keep saying they do.
@ARHS said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@MN5 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Is Holland noted as a ball carrier ?
Not really.
Looks more Luke Romano than Brodie Retallick to me at this stage. I am just not seeing what others keep saying they do.
I'll admit, prior to last night I hadn't seen much in Holland. Reckon it shone through last night though.
Immediately become a fanboi.
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The thing that really stood out with Holland is that he absolutely nailed the basics (read: core aspects) of his role all game. The other 14 blokes on the field... not so much. That is so crucial in the test arena, I am a huge fan already.
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@frugby said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@brodean Depth perception. Kirifi is standing a reasonable distance in front.
He's clearly quite small.
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@frugby said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@brodean Depth perception. Kirifi is standing a reasonable distance in front.
He's clearly quite small.
Holy shit. Lio Willie is actually bloody little judging by that. Reiko Ioane looks like a giant compared to him.
Hes barely taller than Sevu Reece !!! 189cm my fucken arse
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On Rieko, I thought he looked very dangerous in the first half, and he made a couple of line breaks. One of the breaks was vintage Rieko on the angle through the gap with speed, I got a bit excited at that point thinking we were really going to utilise his strengths, but then play didn't seem to go his way after that. I think he's a lock for one of the wing spots, and the fact he can cover centre to a high standard (especially defensively which is what teams like the Boks prioritse in their 13s) gives us more flexibility with the bench.
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On the loosies, we are really missing Cane. Dalton is the closest thing we have to him at the moment, and a trio of Vaa'i, Dalton and Ardie/Sititi looks better balanced to me. Vaa'i gives the size in close and height in the lineout, Dalton spends all day smacking blokes and hitting rucks, and Ardie/Sititi are more free to roam and really use their running game to full effect.
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On the loosies, we are really missing Cane. Dalton is the closest thing we have to him at the moment, and a trio of Vaa'i, Dalton and Ardie/Sititi looks better balanced to me. Vaa'i gives the size in close and height in the lineout, Dalton spends all day smacking blokes and hitting rucks, and Ardie/Sititi are more free to roam and really use their running game to full effect.
@No-Quarter said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
On the loosies, we are really missing Cane. Dalton is the closest thing we have to him at the moment, and a trio of Vaa'i, Dalton and Ardie/Sititi looks better balanced to me. Vaa'i gives the size in close and height in the lineout, Dalton spends all day smacking blokes and hitting rucks, and Ardie/Sititi are more free to roam and really use their running game to full effect.
Yeah DP is a seven who kind of plays like a six without the lineout ability. Good with ball in hand when he has a go too.
