All Blacks 2025
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2025:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
Two weeks in and Wayne Smith involved in coaching group he was in the coaching box Saturday night for all to see.
What is his roll actually thought he had stepped away.The fact the ABs box-kicked long, for touch, and got out of the danger area without putting up 50/50s box-kicks in their own half indicates the profs influence on tactics.
He's on record as saying he hates box kicks
I think he hates them because the vast majority of them are poor and just create more pressure on the team that do them.
My eyes certainly light up when the opposition do them.
So many of our opposition temams are more proficient at them than us. Most of the time it might as well be a turnover when we do it
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2025:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
Two weeks in and Wayne Smith involved in coaching group he was in the coaching box Saturday night for all to see.
What is his roll actually thought he had stepped away.The fact the ABs box-kicked long, for touch, and got out of the danger area without putting up 50/50s box-kicks in their own half indicates the profs influence on tactics.
He's on record as saying he hates box kicks
I think he hates them because the vast majority of them are poor and just create more pressure on the team that do them.
My eyes certainly light up when the opposition do them.
So many of our opposition temams are more proficient at them than us. Most of the time it might as well be a turnover when we do it
I’m not sure about that. I saw some atrocious ones on the weekend in a few other test matches.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2025:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
Two weeks in and Wayne Smith involved in coaching group he was in the coaching box Saturday night for all to see.
What is his roll actually thought he had stepped away.The fact the ABs box-kicked long, for touch, and got out of the danger area without putting up 50/50s box-kicks in their own half indicates the profs influence on tactics.
He's on record as saying he hates box kicks
I think he hates them because the vast majority of them are poor and just create more pressure on the team that do them.
My eyes certainly light up when the opposition do them.
So many of our opposition temams are more proficient at them than us. Most of the time it might as well be a turnover when we do it
I’m not sure about that. I saw some atrocious ones on the weekend in a few other test matches.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2025:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
Two weeks in and Wayne Smith involved in coaching group he was in the coaching box Saturday night for all to see.
What is his roll actually thought he had stepped away.The fact the ABs box-kicked long, for touch, and got out of the danger area without putting up 50/50s box-kicks in their own half indicates the profs influence on tactics.
He's on record as saying he hates box kicks
I think he hates them because the vast majority of them are poor and just create more pressure on the team that do them.
My eyes certainly light up when the opposition do them.
So many of our opposition temams are more proficient at them than us. Most of the time it might as well be a turnover when we do it
I’m not sure about that. I saw some atrocious ones on the weekend in a few other test matches.
Didn't say all. I don't like them, especially in our own half
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2025:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
Two weeks in and Wayne Smith involved in coaching group he was in the coaching box Saturday night for all to see.
What is his roll actually thought he had stepped away.The fact the ABs box-kicked long, for touch, and got out of the danger area without putting up 50/50s box-kicks in their own half indicates the profs influence on tactics.
He's on record as saying he hates box kicks
I think he hates them because the vast majority of them are poor and just create more pressure on the team that do them.
My eyes certainly light up when the opposition do them.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2025:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
Two weeks in and Wayne Smith involved in coaching group he was in the coaching box Saturday night for all to see.
What is his roll actually thought he had stepped away.The fact the ABs box-kicked long, for touch, and got out of the danger area without putting up 50/50s box-kicks in their own half indicates the profs influence on tactics.
He's on record as saying he hates box kicks
I think he hates them because the vast majority of them are poor and just create more pressure on the team that do them.
My eyes certainly light up when the opposition do them.
The Black Ferns World Cup Final was the last time I saw a NZ rep side boxkick long to similar effect. Thought it had Mr. Smith's hands all over it.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2025:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
Two weeks in and Wayne Smith involved in coaching group he was in the coaching box Saturday night for all to see.
What is his roll actually thought he had stepped away.The fact the ABs box-kicked long, for touch, and got out of the danger area without putting up 50/50s box-kicks in their own half indicates the profs influence on tactics.
He's on record as saying he hates box kicks
I think he hates them because the vast majority of them are poor and just create more pressure on the team that do them.
My eyes certainly light up when the opposition do them.
So many of our opposition temams are more proficient at them than us. Most of the time it might as well be a turnover when we do it
I’m not sure about that. I saw some atrocious ones on the weekend in a few other test matches.
Didn't say all. I don't like them, especially in our own half
@canefan I was more talking about the teams that do them - the Boks, Irish, England for example. In all of those tests they kicked poor box kicks. We kick poor ones too. But Roigard had better distance on his ones on the weekend, so was a decent tactic.
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
He's played 10 tests (5 starts) ...
Yeah that’s enough
Like we should have dropped Vaa'i in 2022...
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
He's played 10 tests (5 starts) ...
Yeah that’s enough
Like we should have dropped Vaa'i in 2022...
I'll put my hand up on that! To be fair, at least Vaai was a busy idiot. His accuracy has gone through the roof in the last year and a half. Finau just seems to float about.
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I'm more confident now with the ABs than anytime in the last 5 years
Anyone else agree.@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm more confident now with the ABs than anytime in the last 5 years
Anyone else agree.Hard to say until we've played a top-tier A team like the Boks, but liking much of what I've seen this year
Pros: The tight 5 look good, Trying things at 6/7/8. 9, Jordie looks solid. Giving players plenty of game time to develop. Willingness to experiment. Discipline better. Exits better. Less panic when under pressure.
Cons: Kicking still shite. Unsettled/uninspiring midfield. 10 a big issue. Team still goes to sleep too often. Unconvinced about captaincy. A lack of ruthlessness at times.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
He's played 10 tests (5 starts) ...
Yeah that’s enough
Like we should have dropped Vaa'i in 2022...
I'll put my hand up on that! To be fair, at least Vaai was a busy idiot. His accuracy has gone through the roof in the last year and a half. Finau just seems to float about.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
He's played 10 tests (5 starts) ...
Yeah that’s enough
Like we should have dropped Vaa'i in 2022...
I'll put my hand up on that! To be fair, at least Vaai was a busy idiot. His accuracy has gone through the roof in the last year and a half. Finau just seems to float about.
It takes time finding a first five in the right position to smash
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
He's played 10 tests (5 starts) ...
Yeah that’s enough
Like we should have dropped Vaa'i in 2022...
I'll put my hand up on that! To be fair, at least Vaai was a busy idiot. His accuracy has gone through the roof in the last year and a half. Finau just seems to float about.
This post is deleted! -
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm more confident now with the ABs than anytime in the last 5 years
Anyone else agree.Hard to say until we've played a top-tier A team like the Boks, but liking much of what I've seen this year
Pros: The tight 5 look good, Trying things at 6/7/8. 9, Jordie looks solid. Giving players plenty of game time to develop. Willingness to experiment. Discipline better. Exits better. Less panic when under pressure.
Cons: Kicking still shite. Unsettled/uninspiring midfield. 10 a big issue. Team still goes to sleep too often. Unconvinced about captaincy. A lack of ruthlessness at times.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm more confident now with the ABs than anytime in the last 5 years
Anyone else agree.Hard to say until we've played a top-tier A team like the Boks, but liking much of what I've seen this year
Pros: The tight 5 look good, Trying things at 6/7/8. 9, Jordie looks solid. Giving players plenty of game time to develop. Willingness to experiment. Discipline better. Exits better. Less panic when under pressure.
Cons: Kicking still shite. Unsettled/uninspiring midfield. 10 a big issue. Team still goes to sleep too often. Unconvinced about captaincy. A lack of ruthlessness at times.
I think midfield could be helped by a better 10
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm more confident now with the ABs than anytime in the last 5 years
Anyone else agree.Hard to say until we've played a top-tier A team like the Boks, but liking much of what I've seen this year
Pros: The tight 5 look good, Trying things at 6/7/8. 9, Jordie looks solid. Giving players plenty of game time to develop. Willingness to experiment. Discipline better. Exits better. Less panic when under pressure.
Cons: Kicking still shite. Unsettled/uninspiring midfield. 10 a big issue. Team still goes to sleep too often. Unconvinced about captaincy. A lack of ruthlessness at times.
I think midfield could be helped by a better 10
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm more confident now with the ABs than anytime in the last 5 years
Anyone else agree.Hard to say until we've played a top-tier A team like the Boks, but liking much of what I've seen this year
Pros: The tight 5 look good, Trying things at 6/7/8. 9, Jordie looks solid. Giving players plenty of game time to develop. Willingness to experiment. Discipline better. Exits better. Less panic when under pressure.
Cons: Kicking still shite. Unsettled/uninspiring midfield. 10 a big issue. Team still goes to sleep too often. Unconvinced about captaincy. A lack of ruthlessness at times.
I think midfield could be helped by a better 10
Maybe we are being a bit too harsh on BB and overlook his better points (which clearly doesn't include his kicking). That said, he's getting long in the tooth and I'd be tempted to give Love a start and poss. Reihana a bench spot (though not at the same time)
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
He's played 10 tests (5 starts) ...
Yeah that’s enough
Like we should have dropped Vaa'i in 2022...
different beast lets jut keep Finau he might come good in 10 years.
We have other options.You can not compare one player with another on development each player is an individual and has different mind sets and traits, personalities and grow differently.
But you know pretty soon if they have something or they don't.@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
He's played 10 tests (5 starts) ...
Yeah that’s enough
Like we should have dropped Vaa'i in 2022...
different beast lets jut keep Finau he might come good in 10 years.
We have other options.Name the currently fit and available ones.
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm more confident now with the ABs than anytime in the last 5 years
Anyone else agree.Hard to say until we've played a top-tier A team like the Boks, but liking much of what I've seen this year
Pros: The tight 5 look good, Trying things at 6/7/8. 9, Jordie looks solid. Giving players plenty of game time to develop. Willingness to experiment. Discipline better. Exits better. Less panic when under pressure.
Cons: Kicking still shite. Unsettled/uninspiring midfield. 10 a big issue. Team still goes to sleep too often. Unconvinced about captaincy. A lack of ruthlessness at times.
@Victor-Meldrew can't disagree with any of that.
Time for Love to at least have time at 10 /15, no point waiting.
Give Jordie - Proctor/QT time hopefully it will gel.
Selections much better than last year.
The heat is on SB as PT/Holland/Vaai all playing well. -
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
He's played 10 tests (5 starts) ...
Yeah that’s enough
Like we should have dropped Vaa'i in 2022...
different beast lets jut keep Finau he might come good in 10 years.
We have other options.Name the currently fit and available ones.
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
He's played 10 tests (5 starts) ...
Yeah that’s enough
Like we should have dropped Vaa'i in 2022...
different beast lets jut keep Finau he might come good in 10 years.
We have other options.Name the currently fit and available ones.
Except for Parker all the other ones I mentioned.
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm more confident now with the ABs than anytime in the last 5 years
Anyone else agree.Hard to say until we've played a top-tier A team like the Boks, but liking much of what I've seen this year
Pros: The tight 5 look good, Trying things at 6/7/8. 9, Jordie looks solid. Giving players plenty of game time to develop. Willingness to experiment. Discipline better. Exits better. Less panic when under pressure.
Cons: Kicking still shite. Unsettled/uninspiring midfield. 10 a big issue. Team still goes to sleep too often. Unconvinced about captaincy. A lack of ruthlessness at times.
@Victor-Meldrew I think better use of our bench would help too, under Razor we really have struggled in the 2nd half and later stages of games, so much so, that we have lost games in the period, something that we never used to do, we owned the last quarter.
TBF to Razor to an extent, we have lacked the finishing ability for many years now, so it is up to him to change that.
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@Victor-Meldrew I think better use of our bench would help too, under Razor we really have struggled in the 2nd half and later stages of games, so much so, that we have lost games in the period, something that we never used to do, we owned the last quarter.
TBF to Razor to an extent, we have lacked the finishing ability for many years now, so it is up to him to change that.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew I think better use of our bench would help too, under Razor we really have struggled in the 2nd half and later stages of games, so much so, that we have lost games in the period, something that we never used to do, we owned the last quarter.
TBF to Razor to an extent, we have lacked the finishing ability for many years now, so it is up to him to change that.
Well we drew the last two quarters so its better than losing the last two. To their credit they have tried bringing in some impact bench players into the squad and they have been bringing them on early than last year.
However positional rearrangement is disruptive to the team and individual players.
Vaa'i moves from blindside to lock.
Ardie moves from 7 to 8.
Finau comes on at lock.
Ideally the bench should be set up so that the player coming on requires no positional rearrangement. If Ardie is the 7 moving forward then it would be better to have a player that covers all three positions. Apart from rest Ardie is the least likely player to be replaced. So it makes no sense having a specialist 7 on the bench when he should stay at 7.
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
He's played 10 tests (5 starts) ...
Yeah that’s enough
Like we should have dropped Vaa'i in 2022...
different beast lets jut keep Finau he might come good in 10 years.
We have other options.Name the currently fit and available ones.
Except for Parker all the other ones I mentioned.
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
He's played 10 tests (5 starts) ...
Yeah that’s enough
Like we should have dropped Vaa'i in 2022...
different beast lets jut keep Finau he might come good in 10 years.
We have other options.Name the currently fit and available ones.
Except for Parker all the other ones I mentioned.
Where? I followed the quote train back to https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/post/1061987 and don't see a list.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew I think better use of our bench would help too, under Razor we really have struggled in the 2nd half and later stages of games, so much so, that we have lost games in the period, something that we never used to do, we owned the last quarter.
TBF to Razor to an extent, we have lacked the finishing ability for many years now, so it is up to him to change that.
Well we drew the last two quarters so its better than losing the last two. To their credit they have tried bringing in some impact bench players into the squad and they have been bringing them on early than last year.
However positional rearrangement is disruptive to the team and individual players.
Vaa'i moves from blindside to lock.
Ardie moves from 7 to 8.
Finau comes on at lock.
Ideally the bench should be set up so that the player coming on requires no positional rearrangement. If Ardie is the 7 moving forward then it would be better to have a player that covers all three positions. Apart from rest Ardie is the least likely player to be replaced. So it makes no sense having a specialist 7 on the bench when he should stay at 7.
@brodean doesnt change the fact that our last quarters were a strength, and now they are not, they have in some cases become a weakness.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
And you replace him with ... ?
Parker when fit
Dalton Papali'i Try him at 6 he has the size
Ah Kuoi he is big enough
Howden looks promising
All have more grunt imo.@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
And you replace him with ... ?
Parker when fit
Dalton Papali'i Try him at 6 he has the size
Ah Kuoi he is big enough
Howden looks promising
All have more grunt imo.@antipodean you didn't look hard enough.
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
And you replace him with ... ?
Parker when fit
Dalton Papali'i Try him at 6 he has the size
Ah Kuoi he is big enough
Howden looks promising
All have more grunt imo.@antipodean you didn't look hard enough.
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
And you replace him with ... ?
Parker when fit
Dalton Papali'i Try him at 6 he has the size
Ah Kuoi he is big enough
Howden looks promising
All have more grunt imo.Practically everyone agrees Parker when fit needs to be offered an opportunity.
Dalton has been tried at 6 and that wasn't a resounding success. He's also short for a blindside when what we're looking for his height. Especially if we're going to continue selecting midgets who either won't hit rucks or are ineffective when they do.
Ah Kuoi is reflective of New Zealand's dearth of proper lock sized individuals and in SA for example would just be a loose forward. But his stats don't show he has more grunt and as a lock he's well down the pecking order.
TK Howden is young with potential upside, but his standard of play doesn't justify AB selection.@antipodean you didn't look hard enough.
Yeah I'm going to go trawling through the thread for your shit takes. Just link it next time instead of being a bitch.
