All Blacks 2025
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
On the negative side, Dalton Papalii's ball-carrying numbers aren't great at Test level and he lacks the x-factor of Ardie Savea or Wallace Sititi. He can be a little bit of a penalty magnet.
But I see all those as coachable work ons.
Papali'i has shown he is a good carrier but his focus has been dominating the ruck area on attack rather than carrying which he has done well.
Foster's win rate as AB head coach was 69.5% and when Papali'i started at 7 over that time we won 80% of our games. 7 is such a critical position for securing a good attack and defence. He did in an excellent job for the AB's in that role.
At 37 tests and 27 years of age he has the experience and the athleticism to move into being a world class loose forward for the AB's.
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These are the players from the current squad who I think have the potential to be or can continue being world class. I'm considering current athleticism, form, age, recent injury history, current rugby ability, rugby smarts, and potential - for 5 seconds each.
Definition of world class for this exercise is: would get into any top 10 test team 23.
Hookers:
Codie Taylor ( Is but for how much longer? )
Samisoni Taukei’aho ( Unlucky with injury but can still come good )Props:
Tamaiti Williams
Ollie Norris ( As bench impact )
Tyrel Lomax
Fletcher Newell
Pasilio Tosi ( As bench impact )Locks:
Fabian HollandLoose forwards:
Tupou Vaa'i
Ardie Savea
Wallace Sititi ( Is still green af and has a long way to go. Might not suit being paired with Savea. Can struggle against the bigger teams to make an impact. Long term best position probably 7. )Halfbacks:
Cameron RoigardUtility Bench:
Beauden Barrett
Damian Mckenzie
( Both of these guys might struggle to get into the French or South African teams )Midfielders:
Jordie BarrettOutside backs:
Will Jordan
Ruben LoveTight five is pretty good. Barrett and Tuipulotu are getting to a stage where they being held together by band aids but if managed they can each provide good performance. Don't see the sense in Barrett being captain under the circumstances.
I see Vaa'i as being a very good player but has more potential to be World Class focusing on 6.
Finau has the athletic ability and skills but I think he struggles at the moment mentally in his option taking over the course of the game.
I've thought Parker had the potential since early last year. He reminds me a lot of Kieran Read but there is a lot unknown about him.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't see the hype around Dalton.
I do.
He's fast. 8 tries for the All Blacks and one of the quickest forwards around in supporting the ball carrier and reaching the breakdown.
He combines size with athleticism: 193cm and 113 kgs.
His work at the breakdown is excellent. Only Ardie Savea among NZ Players has achieved more turnovers in Super Rugby since 2020.
His work rate is superb. He regularly makes 20+ tackles a game and has made as many as 28.
He is consistent and in good form. He topped TSF poll of Blues MVP this year.
Excellent post.
What does Jacobsen bring to the table that Papalii doesn’t have ?
( and please, no one mention the concrete shoulder that no one has ever seen at test level )
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't see the hype around Dalton.
I do.
He's fast. 8 tries for the All Blacks and one of the quickest forwards around in supporting the ball carrier and reaching the breakdown.
He combines size with athleticism: 193cm and 113 kgs.
His work at the breakdown is excellent. Only Ardie Savea among NZ Players has achieved more turnovers in Super Rugby since 2020.
His work rate is superb. He regularly makes 20+ tackles a game and has made as many as 28.
He is consistent and in good form. He topped TSF poll of Blues MVP this year.
Excellent post.
What does Jacobsen bring to the table that Papalii doesn’t have ?
( and please, no one mention the concrete shoulder that no one has ever seen at test level )
My hot take is that Jacobsen shouldn't be the guy making way for Papali'i.
Overall he was easily the best Chiefs loose forward this season and basically carried the team. He has a good overall game, experience and is tough
Lakai, Kirifi, and Sititi are all sub standard test cleaners and all three should not be in the squad at anyone time. One of these guys should not be there.
When it comes to carry game they have struggled against big sides.
Kirifi won zero turnovers against France and Lio-Willie actually did a better job in this area.
With Lakai, Kirifi, Sititi, and Savea in the squad we have too many guys who view securing the attacking breakdown as a secondary priority. They all struggle to shift bigger bodies compared to Papali'i and Jacobson.
Jacobson is the only guy in the squad who combines work rate and attacking breakdown ability. Finau is techincally very good but he has a low workrate. Parker also has a low workrate.
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Fun fact.
Ardie Savea, Dalton Papali'i, Hoskins Sotutu, and Ethan Blackadder are the only loose forwards in NZ and eligible who have won a test against South Africa.
None of Vaa'i, Sititi, Jacobson, Finau, Parker, Lakai, or Kirifi have won a test against South Africa as an All Black loose forward.
So that will mean we will head into the tests against South Africa with only one loose forward experiencing success against the old foe in Ardie Savea.
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@brodean bit silly including Parker, Kirifi and Lakai in that stat...given they have never lost a test against SA either...
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't see the hype around Dalton.
I do.
He's fast. 8 tries for the All Blacks and one of the quickest forwards around in supporting the ball carrier and reaching the breakdown.
He combines size with athleticism: 193cm and 113 kgs.
His work at the breakdown is excellent. Only Ardie Savea among NZ Players has achieved more turnovers in Super Rugby since 2020.
His work rate is superb. He regularly makes 20+ tackles a game and has made as many as 28.
He is consistent and in good form. He topped TSF poll of Blues MVP this year.
Excellent post.
What does Jacobsen bring to the table that Papalii doesn’t have ?
( and please, no one mention the concrete shoulder that no one has ever seen at test level )
My hot take is that Jacobsen shouldn't be the guy making way for Papali'i.
Overall he was easily the best Chiefs loose forward this season and basically carried the team. He has a good overall game, experience and is tough
Lakai, Kirifi, and Sititi are all sub standard test cleaners and all three should not be in the squad at anyone time. One of these guys should not be there.
When it comes to carry game they have struggled against big sides.
Kirifi won zero turnovers against France and Lio-Willie actually did a better job in this area.
With Lakai, Kirifi, Sititi, and Savea in the squad we have too many guys who view securing the attacking breakdown as a secondary priority. They all struggle to shift bigger bodies compared to Papali'i and Jacobson.
Jacobson is the only guy in the squad who combines work rate and attacking breakdown ability. Finau is techincally very good but he has a low workrate. Parker also has a low workrate.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't see the hype around Dalton.
I do.
He's fast. 8 tries for the All Blacks and one of the quickest forwards around in supporting the ball carrier and reaching the breakdown.
He combines size with athleticism: 193cm and 113 kgs.
His work at the breakdown is excellent. Only Ardie Savea among NZ Players has achieved more turnovers in Super Rugby since 2020.
His work rate is superb. He regularly makes 20+ tackles a game and has made as many as 28.
He is consistent and in good form. He topped TSF poll of Blues MVP this year.
Excellent post.
What does Jacobsen bring to the table that Papalii doesn’t have ?
( and please, no one mention the concrete shoulder that no one has ever seen at test level )
My hot take is that Jacobsen shouldn't be the guy making way for Papali'i.
Overall he was easily the best Chiefs loose forward this season and basically carried the team. He has a good overall game, experience and is tough
Lakai, Kirifi, and Sititi are all sub standard test cleaners and all three should not be in the squad at anyone time. One of these guys should not be there.
When it comes to carry game they have struggled against big sides.
Kirifi won zero turnovers against France and Lio-Willie actually did a better job in this area.
With Lakai, Kirifi, Sititi, and Savea in the squad we have too many guys who view securing the attacking breakdown as a secondary priority. They all struggle to shift bigger bodies compared to Papali'i and Jacobson.
Jacobson is the only guy in the squad who combines work rate and attacking breakdown ability. Finau is techincally very good but he has a low workrate. Parker also has a low workrate.
It makes a lot more sense to dump Kirifi for Papali’I
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean bit silly including Parker, Kirifi and Lakai in that stat...given they have never lost a test against SA either...
Possibly lost a game against them though for the baabaas? I can't be arsed looking it up.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Godfrey over Reihana? Whoever wrote this can piss off.
Razor's idea is cool in theory but ultimately he is going to alienate a bunch of players spreading caps to thin. How will players become world class if the caps are being shared around?
We will see higher exodus because of this.
Players will be able to command more money overseas once they can show they're an All Black after one or two caps.
But that has been the case for the past two and a half decades with AB coaches handing out caps here or there.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean bit silly including Parker, Kirifi and Lakai in that stat...given they have never lost a test against SA either...
Beating South Africa is invaluable experience that cannot be underestimated. Beating Frances top team in France and beating South Africa are the true tests for players at the moment.
You never know a player has what it takes to be a part of beating South Africa until they do it.
South Africa are going to come at us with next level physicality in these tests.
They will only really care about 2 results this year.
Breaking Fortress Eden Park and winning two games in NZ in a single year.
These are really the only two major things left for Rassie to achieve in his coaching career and also forthe players who have won 2 RWC and won a Lions series.
They will throw everything at us and we be putting out mostly green players in the loose forwards.
Only one has beaten South Africa.
Most of the loosies in the team weren't around Super teams back in 2020 when we were last facing their Super teams.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
None of Vaa'i, Sititi, Jacobson, Finau, Parker, Lakai, or Kirifi have won a test against South Africa as an All Black loose forward.
Not entirely correct unless you are only talking about starting as a loose forward. Vaa'i came on to play 6 against SA at Mt Smart in 2023.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
None of Vaa'i, Sititi, Jacobson, Finau, Parker, Lakai, or Kirifi have won a test against South Africa as an All Black loose forward.
Not entirely correct unless you are only talking about starting as a loose forward. Vaa'i came on to play 6 against SA at Mt Smart in 2023.
That one we scored 20 points to 3 in the first half.
Then 15 points to 17 in the second half.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
You never know a player has what it takes to be a part of beating South Africa until they do it.
If only we selected David Havili, the best performance by a 2nd 5 against the old guard since Ma’a rocked the 12 shirt.
We have a renewal of loosies of sorts that need to start somewhere and yes the expectation of success is still very high but we can’t spring something out of the air that is simply not there either.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
You never know a player has what it takes to be a part of beating South Africa until they do it.
If only we selected David Havili, the best performance by a 2nd 5 against the old guard since Ma’a rocked the 12 shirt.
We have a renewal of loosies of sorts that need to start somewhere and yes the expectation of success is still very high but we can’t spring something out of the air that is simply not there either.
All blacks players of old earned there aB status doing great deeds, against huge odds. Some new players will thrive and elevate themselves to a standard they havent shown previously and some will not be able to take that extra step.
Sa will be slight favourites in NZ and we will have to play at our, or somewhere approaching our best to beat them but we are in New Zealand and some players will take that step up and set themselves up for great careers.
They have to quite frankly.
Sa wont be as good in Nz as they are at home (obvs) so we give it everything and math the deeds of past All Blacks sides that have beaten SA against the odds.
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2025:
Who is this clown?
Someone yet to discover there's no NZRU anymore?
