All Blacks v Argentina II
-
@gt12 I don’t think that’s how it works though. Yes there is a bit more autonomy from the Assistants in making their case for their respective areas, but there still needs to be Razor sign off. So I don’t think he’s phoning it in or abdicating his responsibility as head honcho.
Last week we found a way to lift and critical to that was possession. This week we didn’t value the ball and when you’re chasing it becomes both on impossible to do anything that can turn it.
-
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
The segment I hate most on the Breakdown this year is when they invite the New Zealand public to vote on who the All Blacks should pick.
And then their panel of insiders condescendingly mock the great unwashed for not having the same opinions as the "experts". Just awful.
They’d have kittens if they logged onto the fern by the sound of it
-
@booboo said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Bring in Schmitt after RC he is available then.
Read Foster's book and you'll begin to understand why Schmidt wanted nothing to do with the AB's after RWC2023
Old school?
NZR's relationship with the players was not good to put it mildly - money and marketing came before almost anything else.. And the treatment of the team management was simply appalling. Schmidt clearly had had enough.
Might to a mini book review and post it somewhere.
https://forum.silverfern.rugby/topic/267/tsf-book-club?_=1755991411219
Done.
-
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@gt12 I don’t think that’s how it works though. Yes there is a bit more autonomy from the Assistants in making their case for their respective areas, but there still needs to be Razor sign off. So I don’t think he’s phoning it in or abdicating his responsibility as head honcho.
Last week we found a way to lift and critical to that was possession. This week we didn’t value the ball and when you’re chasing it becomes both on impossible to do anything that can turn it.
Scott Hansen is the coach, Razor looks at the 'bigger picture' - whatever you interpret that to mean.
-
@akan004 said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Grooter said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@WoodysRFC also need to hold onto our Eden park fortress streak which won't be easy we've got two Tests there next month
I will be very surprised if we even win one of the two games against SA. Really can't see it happening especially given who we have out. Will probably beat Australia at home and retain the Bledisloe as they seem to have a mental block against us whenever they play in NZ.
Oz won’t have a mental block with Schmidt coaching. Oz will be primed like Ireland in Chicago in 2016. Schmidt knows the AB players and will humanise them so the black jersey doesn’t intimidate and Eden Park becomes less imposing.
-
@stodders said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@akan004 said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Grooter said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@WoodysRFC also need to hold onto our Eden park fortress streak which won't be easy we've got two Tests there next month
I will be very surprised if we even win one of the two games against SA. Really can't see it happening especially given who we have out. Will probably beat Australia at home and retain the Bledisloe as they seem to have a mental block against us whenever they play in NZ.
Oz won’t have a mental block with Schmidt coaching. Oz will be primed like Ireland in Chicago in 2016. Schmidt knows the AB players and will humanise them so the black jersey doesn’t intimidate and Eden Park becomes less imposing.
I hear the casinos and buffets in Auckland are just as distracting…..
Kaino to lock
-
That was an absolute shit-fest of a game and it's quite remarkable a loyal journeyman like Finlay Christie stood out as a key player, but the question is this a one-off or are we taking one step forward, two steps sideways an one step back?
The discipline was bloody awful. Where was the leadership? Scooter is a great lock but I'm unconvinced by his leadership. Pretty hard for Robertson to sack his captaincy and he not the only leader on the field, but there needs to be some discussions.
I really like Robertson sticking with new players for more than 1 or two Tests but the backline just isn't functioning. Either sort it out or get someone in who can - they've had plenty of time.
Don't think there's any need to panic right now, things were/are def. going in the right direction but with too many bumps on the way. That said, any more games like that and the chopping block will need to be taken out of storage an NZR HQ.
-
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Jet Too many cheerleaders and former players in the NZ media and not enough actual journalists.
That Breakdown show is a national disgrace and everyone involved in it should be ashamed. Utterly ashamed.
Week after week, a panel of uncritical, naive cheerleaders are wheeled out to compete about who can read out talking points their pals in the All Blacks coaching set up have given them in the most gormless manner.
Week after week, they talk up the current All Balcks as if they are a mixture between the Harlem Globetrotters and the 1924-5 Invincibles.
The Aotearoa Rugby pod is little better. The same with the NZ Rugby press.
It's high time the coaches and the senior player got used to a bit of criticism again.
Remember when we used to spit on underperforming coaches at horse racing tracks!
-
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
That was an absolute shit-fest of a game and it's quite remarkable a loyal journeyman like Finlay Christie stood out as a key player, but the question is this a one-off or are we taking one step forward, two steps sideways an one step back?
The discipline was bloody awful. Where was the leadership? Scooter is a great lock but I'm unconvinced by his leadership. Pretty hard for Robertson to sack his captaincy and he not the only leader on the field, but there needs to be some discussions.
I really like Robertson sticking with new players for more than 1 or two Tests but the backline just isn't functioning. Either sort it out or get someone in who can - they've had plenty of time.
Don't think there's any need to panic right now, things were/are def. going in the right direction but with too many bumps on the way. That said, any more games like that and the chopping block will need to be taken out of storage an NZR HQ.
9/10 has struggled for continuity this season because of injuries. BB has struggled for form offensively and has been a handbrake on most backlines he has managed for some time now, both at provincial and international level. He isn’t the future, nor the present. Christie is a stop gap at best. Why not give Preston a go? He can’t be much worse, can he?
Midfield - Proctor has steadily improved IMO, which is what people have been asking for. Jordie has regressed, sadly. But Jordie has been the standout in the backline for the AB season, so maybe a drop in performance is to be expected. He is the best player in the backline right now in terms of being world class.
Back 3 - where to start? I feel like I’m back in the late 2000s when the ELVs were brought in and SA gave NZ several haymakers with their kick and chase game. Henry recognised the ABs inability to field the high ball and poor kick chase and went to Kahui, Jane and ultimately Dagg at FB.
Fast forward to the 2025 ABs and NZ need to find some players who are hungry for the kick chase and can contest in the air confidently. They have one in Jordan, who has to play (either at 14 or FB), but Reece is not that guy and Ioane (who used to be ok under the high ball but doesn’t appear confident now after years of playing 13) isn’t the answer at 11.
10, 11 and 14/15 are the questions in the backline.
10 position doesn’t need a Dan Carter. NZ hasn’t always had a magician at 10. Carter was a cheat code because of his all round offensive and defensive abilities allied with his tactical mastery. NZ need a tactician at 10 who can defend well and test the opposition defensive line. They don’t need to be a creator. That will come from Roigard (when fit). It needs to be an organiser and a facilitator to link the forwards and backs. Much like the French use of 10.
NZ’s strength is in numbers 1-8 and 9 with Roigard. The backs need to be filled with players with low error rates who can defend well, capitalise on mistakes and kick chase 100% of the time. They need to compliment the hard work up front, not undo it.
-
Not my favourite area of the game, but Argentina's contestable kick execution was very good. Some midfield kicks falling between Jordan and B Barrett in the first half, with Christie often trying to catch. Second half kicked to Reece's wing, with Jordan coming over to cover for him.
-
-
Vaa'i missed a number of tackles, and had an ineffectual game. He's a very good lock, and played well there in Super Rugby. They are trying to turn him into a Courtney Lawes style 6, I guess. Worth persisting with, or move him back to lock (where he should start)?
Defence was poor in this game. All loose forwards being played out of position doesn't help.
-
@Tim said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Vaa'i missed a number of tackles, and had an ineffectual game. He's a very good lock, and played well there in Super Rugby. They are trying to turn him into a Courtney Lawes style player, I guess. Worth persisting with, or move him back to lock (where he should start)?
Move him back to lock, have an actual 6 play 6, and 8 play 8, and a 7 play 7. It’s not rocket science.
Ideally, should hell freeze over, I’d have;
- Williams
- Taylor
- Newell
- Va’ai
- Holland
- Parker
- Savea or Lakai
- Sititi
- The local u12 b team reserve half back
- McKenzie
- Carter
- Tupea
- Proctor
- Jordan
- J Barrett
-
@Tim said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Vaa'i missed a number of tackles, and had an ineffectual game. He's a very good lock, and played well there in Super Rugby. They are trying to turn him into a Courtney Lawes style player, I guess. Worth persisting with, or move him back to lock (where he should start)?
He is early in his development as a 6. He has had good games, but got shut down in this one. Parker was v good and is maybe the long term answer at 6. ABs need two good options at 6 and look like they finally have them.
I expect to see Parker at 6 against Boks. If Savea and Sititi are starters, will Parker play at 6 or off the bench with Va’ai starting? If Parker starts, Holland is a starter in the second row, which leaves a big decision about S Barrett - starter with Va’ai (better player and in better form) on the bench or S Barrett on the bench which opens up the captaincy question?
-
@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
A bit more anger and a bit less hurt feelings from Razor would be comforting to see.
He looked a bit shell-shocked and lost, to be honest.
-
Losing each aerial contest cost the All Blacks the game, IMO. The back three were particularly poor in this respect as they could not catch a single kick for the whole game. This gave the Argies not only possession but also decisive momentum against opponents on the back foot. This was hard for the forwards to contest in the rucks as they always had to run backwards.
