All Blacks v Springboks I
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The Old Foe have named their squad.
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As much as I'd like to see certain changes in the backline, I'm not expecting it to happen. Robertson seems like more of a motivator than coach - he leaves the coaching up to the other guys. At the Crusaders, with the majority of the side All Blacks, he could motivate the players to play to their ability and that'd do the job against a side with a handful of internationals. But when the playing field is even and the opposition is just as motivated, you need ruthless systems. Right now, the team doesn’t look like they have them.
The motivator vs coach idea also fits with the way he tries to be mates with the players and the cheesy “walk together” stuff, which is less like strategy and more like a way to keep them onside so he can fire them up. That might explain his reluctance to drop senior guys too. He sees the level they've played to in the past and thinks he can motivate them to play to that level. It works when you’ve got the best squad in the comp, but at test level sentiment can’t come before standards.
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
As much as I'd like to see certain changes in the backline, I'm not expecting it to happen. Robertson seems like more of a motivator than coach - he leaves the coaching up to the other guys. At the Crusaders, with the majority of the side All Blacks, he could motivate the players to play to their ability and that'd do the job against a side with a handful of internationals. But when the playing field is even and the opposition is just as motivated, you need ruthless systems. Right now, the team doesn’t look like they have them.
The motivator vs coach idea also fits with the way he tries to be mates with the players and the cheesy “walk together” stuff, which is less like strategy and more like a way to keep them onside so he can fire them up. That might explain his reluctance to drop senior guys too. He sees the level they've played to in the past and thinks he can motivate them to play to that level. It works when you’ve got the best squad in the comp, but at test level sentiment can’t come before standards.
Robertson seems to be a vibes guy.
At the Crusdaers the squad was the squad and the faces were the same week to week.
You could move a Havili from 12 to 15 or 10 in a pinch or big Leicester to wing or centre as required.The team essentially picked itself, everyone was happy and on message and the talent got them over the line.
Now he has 5 Super Rugby teams to pick from........and he doesnt know what to do and hasnt got the heart to drop anyone.
Decision paralysis.
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
The rot in the ABs has been around for a long time and I suspect the likes of B Barrett, Savea, ALB, McKenzie are next to uncoachable. Have a single one of them shown any improvement at all in the past 3-4 years? The rest have had their development years under sub standard coaching in the super rugby system. Those middle championships before and during Covid, the crusaders were basically taking the piss out of those other teams. Robertson consistently embarrassed established ABs with simple game plans. So now he has to trust those players (Barrett, McKenzie, Savea) to lead his ABs team? I think he’s been way too slow to throw the baby out with the bath water and that is his biggest failure.
How does that make sense?
- He's an awesome coach.
- Selects players.
- Can't coach them.
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Just digressing:
We all know the ABs haven't lost at Eden Park since 1994.
Two questions (ok 2 and a half), without Google:
- When did the Springboks last win at Eden Park?
- When did the the All Blacks last not win at Eden Park?
2a. Against who? What year?
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Just digressing:
We all know the ABs haven't lost at Eden Park since 1994.
Two questions (ok 2 and a half), without Google:
- When did the Springboks last win at Eden Park?
- When did the the All Blacks last not win at Eden Park?
2a. Against who? What year?
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1937
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It was a draw against the Lions in 2017. The ABs also drew against the Springboks there in 1994.
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Remember how good Jane, Dagg and Kahui were under the high ball?
We've really got no one even near that on a consistent basis.
Any Super level winger or fullback should have it spelled out pretty clearly that they don't get into the ABs unless their aerial game is top notch - both offensively and defensively. They should also all know how to kick it reasonably well. And if they haven't got it, learn it. Else we are permanent targets there.
And that goes for future wingers like Carter or Tangitau as well.
The ABs should have a national skills coach visiting Super level sides constantly training and assessing these skills and giving them new targets. Reporting directly to the AB coaches. If there is no improvement, they don't get into the ABs.
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@Frank you mean like when Mike Cron did that?
Plenty of issues in our national game that are.clear to see, yet doesn't seem anyone addressing it or even concerned there is nothing being done to rectify it.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Frank you mean like when Mike Cron did that?
Plenty of issues in our national game that are.clear to see, yet doesn't seem anyone addressing it or even concerned there is nothing being done to rectify it.
Would have thought the likes of Spencer, Nonu, Jane, Carter, McCaw, Mealamu, Whitelock would all be guys that would be sought after to instill mindset, skills and training into this generation.
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@Bones Dagg was part of the original bomb squad, he could probably be helpful.
Sure ex players dont always make good coaches, but I am sure some of these guys could provide some good input and things that helped them.
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Posting here, although comments based on Pumas 2.
Three main areas of concern:
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Aerial. We are holed below water line. Need AFL style coaching toot sweet;
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Backline. Seemed impossible to run backline moves because forwards were constantly in the way. Can’t we just run some straight backline moves?
DMac created space whereas BB was shackled by Puma D.
Jordie seems clunky. Like to see miss passes straight to 13. Would have liked to see Tupaea get a run outside DMac at 12.
Taking Proctor off for Quinn seemed to solve nothing. Would have been better to push Jordie into back three and let Proctor have a run with Tupaea inside; -
Loosies. As I feared, the formulaic selection was a failure. A balanced trio needs to encompass a fetcher, a ball slower, jumper, cleaner, smasher, and explosive runner. To a degree who does which isn’t so important. We ended up with no real fetcher, no ball slower and no smasher. The second Puma try highlighted the need for a 6 who’s used to defending off scrums.
In fact when Sititi came on it would have been better if Vaa’i had gone to lock, perhaps replacing Scooter, and Parker to six.
I think TWM should treat Sititi and Savea as 8s, and only have one on field at a time, Parker and Finau as 6s and Kirifi and Jacobson as 7s, Lakai seems to genuinely cover 7 and 8, and would have been a better bet than RD at 7.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Frank you mean like when Mike Cron did that?
Plenty of issues in our national game that are.clear to see, yet doesn't seem anyone addressing it or even concerned there is nothing being done to rectify it.
Would have thought the likes of Spencer, Nonu, Jane, Carter, McCaw, Mealamu, Whitelock would all be guys that would be sought after to instill mindset, skills and training into this generation.
@Bones said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Frank you mean like when Mike Cron did that?
Plenty of issues in our national game that are.clear to see, yet doesn't seem anyone addressing it or even concerned there is nothing being done to rectify it.
Would have thought the likes of Spencer, Nonu, Jane, Carter, McCaw, Mealamu, Whitelock would all be guys that would be sought after to instill mindset, skills and training into this generation.
I'd love to hear Nonu's thoughts on this right now. Last time I saw him speak his analysis on an AB performance was superb and he didn't pull any punches. They should get him in to give his 2c on the issues with our backline right now, I bet it'd be illuminating.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Frank you mean like when Mike Cron did that?
Plenty of issues in our national game that are.clear to see, yet doesn't seem anyone addressing it or even concerned there is nothing being done to rectify it.
Would have thought the likes of Spencer, Nonu, Jane, Carter, McCaw, Mealamu, Whitelock would all be guys that would be sought after to instill mindset, skills and training into this generation.
I'd love to hear Nonu's thoughts on this right now. Last time I saw him speak his analysis on an AB performance was superb and he didn't pull any punches. They should get him in to give his 2c on the issues with our backline right now, I bet it'd be illuminating.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Frank you mean like when Mike Cron did that?
Plenty of issues in our national game that are.clear to see, yet doesn't seem anyone addressing it or even concerned there is nothing being done to rectify it.
Would have thought the likes of Spencer, Nonu, Jane, Carter, McCaw, Mealamu, Whitelock would all be guys that would be sought after to instill mindset, skills and training into this generation.
> I'd love to hear Nonu's thoughts on this right now. Last time I saw him speak his analysis on an AB performance was superb and he didn't pull any punches. They should get him in to give his 2c on the issues with our backline right now, I bet it'd be illuminating.
He’s probably far too busy still playing like the absolute best ever 12 there has ever been. Legend.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Frank you mean like when Mike Cron did that?
Plenty of issues in our national game that are.clear to see, yet doesn't seem anyone addressing it or even concerned there is nothing being done to rectify it.
Would have thought the likes of Spencer, Nonu, Jane, Carter, McCaw, Mealamu, Whitelock would all be guys that would be sought after to instill mindset, skills and training into this generation.
I'd love to hear Nonu's thoughts on this right now. Last time I saw him speak his analysis on an AB performance was superb and he didn't pull any punches. They should get him in to give his 2c on the issues with our backline right now, I bet it'd be illuminating.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Frank you mean like when Mike Cron did that?
Plenty of issues in our national game that are.clear to see, yet doesn't seem anyone addressing it or even concerned there is nothing being done to rectify it.
Would have thought the likes of Spencer, Nonu, Jane, Carter, McCaw, Mealamu, Whitelock would all be guys that would be sought after to instill mindset, skills and training into this generation.
I'd love to hear Nonu's thoughts on this right now. Last time I saw him speak his analysis on an AB performance was superb and he didn't pull any punches. They should get him in to give his 2c on the issues with our backline right now, I bet it'd be illuminating.
100%, too many yes men analysing the ABs these days. Kirwan was probably one of the media men who actually said what he thought, probably not surprising he is no longer working for ‘woke’ Sky Sport.
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Aotearoa Rugby Pod pulling their punches and searching for positives while making excuses. Basically say all we have to do is win collisions. Also, we lost two to yellow cards and did "really well" to stay in the game.
Very disappointing.
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Aotearoa Rugby Pod pulling their punches and searching for positives while making excuses. Basically say all we have to do is win collisions. Also, we lost two to yellow cards and did "really well" to stay in the game.
Very disappointing.
@Frank said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Aotearoa Rugby Pod pulling their punches and searching for positives while making excuses. Basically say all we have to do is win collisions. Also, we lost two to yellow cards and did "really well" to stay in the game.
Very disappointing.
Will take a listen tomorrow but that sounds disappointing. I do find that when Ross asks pointed questions about players/games etc when things have not gone well, he often gets shut down by James, with Bryn backing James up.
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Parsons is part of the NZRPA and Hall owes his entire career to Razor. They are hardly two objective voices.
ARP are most interesting when discussing other countries and they don't have ties.
For NZ topics I find them mostly a waste of time to be honest - the fact they are preferred to The Breakdown says more about The Breakdown than anything else.
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Actually I remember JP (and Bryn Hall) once saying on the pod ,one of the best things they had found in playing high level sport, it taught them to be a bit more positive, and to in general look at why things went wrong, and look at systems etc, not just who to blame.
Who was the former Wallaby Ben Darwin who co wrote Gain Line Analytics, said almost all mistakes on field can be traced back to system/training mistakes, and it too easy to point fingers at players.
