All Blacks v Springboks I
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Except Riekos been incredibly poor at 13 for years.
It's just quite depressing to see someone who is clearly not good enough for internationals getting an automatic 1st team pick over and over.
Well, if you completely ignore the fact he's one of the best defensive centre's we've had in a long time, I guess you could make that claim. I've said before, but I think a team like SA would value Rieko at centre a LOT more than we do given how much ground he covers on defense. But we're very focused on our centre's creating tries while ignoring other crucial aspects of the role at that level. I firmly believe the issues with Rieko on attack is because our backline tactics have been poor for a long time now, which means we never utilise his speed on the outside shoulder to get over the advantage line. Using him as a crash ball merchant so often is just so dumb.
And now you're completely ignoring Rieko with ball in hand. It's extremely rare to see him do anything other than tuck and duck, heading directly at one or two defenders. Two hands, eyes up, feet before the tackle is as far from his mind as possible.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Wurzel said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Speaking of Dagg and ex players not being critical of current ABs, evidently he’s not a Rieko fan… and wasn’t when they played together
Ioane is pretty tall and people who are very quick can also generally jump high. No excuse why he can’t do this.
Loving Daggs almost Norm Hewitt like honesty. Must be a Hawkes Bay thing @Nepia
The problem with that Bay honesty is that he doesn't also have Crusaders honesty and he's given his village of the damned teammates a pass, despite his fluffing of Jordan, in this match he didn't look assured in the slightest under the high ball, and Reece wasn't really trying to catch anything.
At least he didn't finish the comments with the gambling odds.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Except Riekos been incredibly poor at 13 for years.
It's just quite depressing to see someone who is clearly not good enough for internationals getting an automatic 1st team pick over and over.
Well, if you completely ignore the fact he's one of the best defensive centre's we've had in a long time, I guess you could make that claim. I've said before, but I think a team like SA would value Rieko at centre a LOT more than we do given how much ground he covers on defense. But we're very focused on our centre's creating tries while ignoring other crucial aspects of the role at that level. I firmly believe the issues with Rieko on attack is because our backline tactics have been poor for a long time now, which means we never utilise his speed on the outside shoulder to get over the advantage line. Using him as a crash ball merchant so often is just so dumb.
No argument that he's a great defender.
And he could actually be a better option than Proctor at 13..........sigh.But the lack of skill development is terrible.
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@OomPB said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
It's going to be make or break for the Springboks. Most of them will remember the previous test at Mount Smart. The All Blacks challenge will put some spring in that old age Springboks step.
Most of them have never played at Eden park
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@Frank said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Except Riekos been incredibly poor at 13 for years.
It's just quite depressing to see someone who is clearly not good enough for internationals getting an automatic 1st team pick over and over.
Well, if you completely ignore the fact he's one of the best defensive centre's we've had in a long time, I guess you could make that claim. I've said before, but I think a team like SA would value Rieko at centre a LOT more than we do given how much ground he covers on defense. But we're very focused on our centre's creating tries while ignoring other crucial aspects of the role at that level. I firmly believe the issues with Rieko on attack is because our backline tactics have been poor for a long time now, which means we never utilise his speed on the outside shoulder to get over the advantage line. Using him as a crash ball merchant so often is just so dumb.
No argument that he's a great defender.
And he could actually be a better option than Proctor at 13..........sigh.But the lack of skill development is terrible.
I think the key takeaway from @No-Quarter's post is that regardless of skills development the ABs backline tactics have meant he's never been able to shine in the areas certain members of the Fern think are all that counts. Yet, with Proctor in the role now he's facing the same criticism, suggesting could be a systemic issue rather than an individual issue.
I wouldn't mind seeing Ennor get a go because his fluffers seem to suggest he's more in the Smith mould than the other two, so it would be good to see if he could function in that way in the current AB system.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Frank thing is, once they hit the ABs, even Super, development shouldn't be needed, should just be fine tuning, but that is the problem, so many skills are being ignored at lower levels.
Rieko is like his brother, freakish athleticism led to weaknesses in their game being papered over. I can understand that.
What I can't understand is the seeming lack of desire to address those deficiencies. Rieko is tall and quick. Look how little the Bok wingers are and they are good in the air. Why couldn't he get good under the high ball? Why couldn't training drills be set up to improve his passing or positioning on attack at center?
Compare to the legend that is Ben Smith. Far less gifted but kept working on his skills. Ends up being a complete player.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
with Proctor in the role now he's facing the same criticism
Yeah true, as they've clearly played the same amount of test rugby, so it can't be just that Proctor has as much experience in a difficult position as Rieko has had in half of one of his many test seasons.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
with Proctor in the role now he's facing the same criticism
Yeah true, as they've clearly played the same amount of test rugby, so it can't be just that Proctor has as much experience in a difficult position as Rieko has had in half of one of his many test seasons.
Huh, a player can still get criticised on the actual game they play even if they haven't played many games.
Also, I said it was a systemic issue so wasn't attacking your boy Proctor (he hasn't lived up the hype yet but if @Canes4life didn't exist then that hype would be about 95% less).
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@Nepia said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
with Proctor in the role now he's facing the same criticism
Yeah true, as they've clearly played the same amount of test rugby, so it can't be just that Proctor has as much experience in a difficult position as Rieko has had in half of one of his many test seasons.
Huh, a player can still get criticised on the actual game they play even if they haven't played many games.
Also, I said it was a systemic issue so wasn't attacking your boy Proctor (he hasn't lived up the hype yet but if @Canes4life didn't exist then that hype would be about 95% less).
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@Nepia said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Frank said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Except Riekos been incredibly poor at 13 for years.
It's just quite depressing to see someone who is clearly not good enough for internationals getting an automatic 1st team pick over and over.
Well, if you completely ignore the fact he's one of the best defensive centre's we've had in a long time, I guess you could make that claim. I've said before, but I think a team like SA would value Rieko at centre a LOT more than we do given how much ground he covers on defense. But we're very focused on our centre's creating tries while ignoring other crucial aspects of the role at that level. I firmly believe the issues with Rieko on attack is because our backline tactics have been poor for a long time now, which means we never utilise his speed on the outside shoulder to get over the advantage line. Using him as a crash ball merchant so often is just so dumb.
No argument that he's a great defender.
And he could actually be a better option than Proctor at 13..........sigh.But the lack of skill development is terrible.
I think the key takeaway from @No-Quarter's post is that regardless of skills development the ABs backline tactics have meant he's never been able to shine in the areas certain members of the Fern think are all that counts. Yet, with Proctor in the role now he's facing the same criticism, suggesting could be a systemic issue rather than an individual issue.
I wouldn't mind seeing Ennor get a go because his fluffers seem to suggest he's more in the Smith mould than the other two, so it would be good to see if he could function in that way in the current AB system.
I always felt Ennor was the heir to the 13 jersey but constant injuries keep costing him.
Still would like to see how he goes on the big stage -
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Frank said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Except Riekos been incredibly poor at 13 for years.
It's just quite depressing to see someone who is clearly not good enough for internationals getting an automatic 1st team pick over and over.
Well, if you completely ignore the fact he's one of the best defensive centre's we've had in a long time, I guess you could make that claim. I've said before, but I think a team like SA would value Rieko at centre a LOT more than we do given how much ground he covers on defense. But we're very focused on our centre's creating tries while ignoring other crucial aspects of the role at that level. I firmly believe the issues with Rieko on attack is because our backline tactics have been poor for a long time now, which means we never utilise his speed on the outside shoulder to get over the advantage line. Using him as a crash ball merchant so often is just so dumb.
No argument that he's a great defender.
And he could actually be a better option than Proctor at 13..........sigh.But the lack of skill development is terrible.
I think the key takeaway from @No-Quarter's post is that regardless of skills development the ABs backline tactics have meant he's never been able to shine in the areas certain members of the Fern think are all that counts. Yet, with Proctor in the role now he's facing the same criticism, suggesting could be a systemic issue rather than an individual issue.
I wouldn't mind seeing Ennor get a go because his fluffers seem to suggest he's more in the Smith mould than the other two, so it would be good to see if he could function in that way in the current AB system.
You gotta get away with your provincialism obsession and particular hatred of all things Canterbury. It's boring.
Rieko hasn't developed his game either at wing under the high ball or kick reception. He also hasn't developed a good passing game at center and apparently that's the fault of two successive coaching regimes. Don't make me laugh. Where's the accountability?
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@Nepia said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
with Proctor in the role now he's facing the same criticism
Yeah true, as they've clearly played the same amount of test rugby, so it can't be just that Proctor has as much experience in a difficult position as Rieko has had in half of one of his many test seasons.
Huh, a player can still get criticised on the actual game they play even if they haven't played many games.
Also, I said it was a systemic issue so wasn't attacking your boy Proctor (he hasn't lived up the hype yet but if @Canes4life didn't exist then that hype would be about 95% less).
Weak argument. Nice try to distract with the provincial angle, but that just makes it more obvious you've got nothing else.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
with Proctor in the role now he's facing the same criticism
Yeah true, as they've clearly played the same amount of test rugby, so it can't be just that Proctor has as much experience in a difficult position as Rieko has had in half of one of his many test seasons.
Huh, a player can still get criticised on the actual game they play even if they haven't played many games.
Also, I said it was a systemic issue so wasn't attacking your boy Proctor (he hasn't lived up the hype yet but if @Canes4life didn't exist then that hype would be about 95% less).
At least the players I rate become All Blacks. I’ve lost count of how many times you and @Stargazer have creamed yourself over Hawkes Bay players and they’ve ended up doing sweet f all.
How many HB players in the ABs again?
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@Wurzel said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Speaking of Dagg and ex players not being critical of current ABs, evidently he’s not a Rieko fan… and wasn’t when they played together
Finally someone says something. Thank heavens.
The fact in a decade Rieko hasn't developed the skills to take the high ball or develop a kicking game says a lot.
It also says a lot about these coaches.
They talk about both sides of the ball but throw Rieko on the wing when presumably they know he struggles under the high ball. If they don't know - and if their plan was to play Rieko on the wing - then why weren't they using the pre AB squad naming camp in BOP and the French series trainings to really test out Rieko under the high ball.
There are some things Rieko has improved on in his career - defensively he has gotten much better and his passing has improved compared to where it was when he first came on the scene.
But it screams of Razor not having the sack to drop a guy that the NZR signed to a deal through to the 2027 RWC.
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@kidcalder said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Frank said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Except Riekos been incredibly poor at 13 for years.
It's just quite depressing to see someone who is clearly not good enough for internationals getting an automatic 1st team pick over and over.
Well, if you completely ignore the fact he's one of the best defensive centre's we've had in a long time, I guess you could make that claim. I've said before, but I think a team like SA would value Rieko at centre a LOT more than we do given how much ground he covers on defense. But we're very focused on our centre's creating tries while ignoring other crucial aspects of the role at that level. I firmly believe the issues with Rieko on attack is because our backline tactics have been poor for a long time now, which means we never utilise his speed on the outside shoulder to get over the advantage line. Using him as a crash ball merchant so often is just so dumb.
No argument that he's a great defender.
And he could actually be a better option than Proctor at 13..........sigh.But the lack of skill development is terrible.
I think the key takeaway from @No-Quarter's post is that regardless of skills development the ABs backline tactics have meant he's never been able to shine in the areas certain members of the Fern think are all that counts. Yet, with Proctor in the role now he's facing the same criticism, suggesting could be a systemic issue rather than an individual issue.
I wouldn't mind seeing Ennor get a go because his fluffers seem to suggest he's more in the Smith mould than the other two, so it would be good to see if he could function in that way in the current AB system.
I always felt Ennor was the heir to the 13 jersey but constant injuries keep costing him.
Still would like to see how he goes on the big stageThe only thing I remember Ennor ever doing at AB level was getting bumped by Robbie Henshaw as if he didn’t exist.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Maybe Razor just isn't doing enough breakdances to clear his mind?
I thought he used surfing to clear his mind?
Maybe there were no waves in Argentina?
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
It would be good to see Rieko in a team with a functioning backline but the fact he hasn't strung together much on attack for the All Blacks or Blues in the past three or so years is somewhat damning regardless.
Forgot about that.
Not only two different AB coaching set ups, but also two Blues set ups (Leon McDonald and Vern Cotter).
