All Blacks v Argentina II
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
An ex player says something negative about a player and he gets the old fashioned 'fuck off'. Do we want honesty or not?
There needs to be some balance. Rieko was the only back 3 not to get carded.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
And nobody has actually disputed his point. But why do you think he singled out Rieko, but ignored Sevu who is worse under the high ball and was atrocious on the weekend?
Agreed, both Rieko and Sevu sucked, and both have not developed any real skill under the high ball.
Jordan is a bit hot and cold, but offers way more in attack with his angled runs.
They could all improve.
I think there's a chance they revert back to Rieko at center. He's better there than wing despite his weak distribution skills.
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@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
And nobody has actually disputed his point. But why do you think he singled out Rieko, but ignored Sevu who is worse under the high ball and was atrocious on the weekend?
Agreed, both Rieko and Sevu sucked, and both have not developed any real skill under the high ball.
Jordan is a bit hot and cold, but offers way more in attack with his angled runs.
They could all improve.
I think there's a chance they revert back to Rieko at center. He's better there than wing despite his weak distribution skills.
Potentially a move back to 13, probably unlikely, but he would also likely be a better bench option than ALB.
The most disturbing thing is JB coming back from Leinster playing really well and then after a few games his good form crumbles away. There are some series issues with the attack and back line coaching.
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It used to be said that players got better and improved in the All Blacks environment.
But in recent years we've seen players get worse and even sometimes wilt in the All Blacks.
It's striking to hear players say they enjoy playing for their super franchises more than the ABs.
It suggests that something is very rotten indeed in the national team set-up.
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This post is deleted!
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I only care if the criticism is valid.
Or do we now expect that the only time we appear to get honesty, they need to preside over the remaining match day 22 and conjure up experiences that clearly haven't changed over years?
He was talking about the issues with our back three, and singled out Rieko as the problem, Jordan as the apparent saviour despite his ongoing issues under the high ball, and then completely ignored the idiot that cost us the match in the final 10 (who also has a history of getting himself carded going for high balls!). Not saying his criticism wasn't valid, but the bias is next level, so pretty hard to take him seriously.
It comes back to former players never criticising players they were mates with or from their own province, have to take what they say with a giant grain of salt. Reece should have absolutely hung out to dry after that performance, if he gets picked against the Boks I will lose my shit.
I don’t want to see Reece anywhere near Eden Park.
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@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
And nobody has actually disputed his point. But why do you think he singled out Rieko, but ignored Sevu who is worse under the high ball and was atrocious on the weekend?
Agreed, both Rieko and Sevu sucked, and both have not developed any real skill under the high ball.
Jordan is a bit hot and cold, but offers way more in attack with his angled runs.
They could all improve.
I think there's a chance they revert back to Rieko at center. He's better there than wing despite his weak distribution skills.
Rokocoko and Sivivatu got binned off in 2009 for not being able to catch a cold.
And their highs were much higher than Rieko's and Sevu's.
We owe these two chancers nothing.
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The best thing Rieko Ioane has done in an Allblack shirt in the last 5 or 6 years was to tell Jonny Sexton to "enjoy your retirement you kant". For that he will always be fondly remembered.
For now we need someone who can catch, kick and score the odd try.
Thanks for the memories xoxoxo.
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@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
It used to be said that players got better and improved in the All Blacks environment.
But in recent years we've seen players get worse and even sometimes wilt in the All Blacks.
It's striking to hear players say they enjoy playing for their super franchises more than the ABs.
It suggests that something is very rotten indeed in the national team set-up.
Dont forget Rieko essentially got dropped for the 2019 RWC only playing one pool game against Canada and scoring 1 try.
That was two years after his debut and when he still had "legs".
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I only care if the criticism is valid.
Or do we now expect that the only time we appear to get honesty, they need to preside over the remaining match day 22 and conjure up experiences that clearly haven't changed over years?
He was talking about the issues with our back three, and singled out Rieko as the problem, Jordan as the apparent saviour despite his ongoing issues under the high ball, and then completely ignored the idiot that cost us the match in the final 10 (who also has a history of getting himself carded going for high balls!). Not saying his criticism wasn't valid, but the bias is next level, so pretty hard to take him seriously.
It comes back to former players never criticising players they were mates with or from their own province, have to take what they say with a giant grain of salt. Reece should have absolutely hung out to dry after that performance, if he gets picked against the Boks I will lose my shit.
I think it's completely valid that he points out Rieko has had this skill deficit for that long. And in context from the snippet I watched they were talking about the ability of wingers to contest and catch a high ball.
After all he did support Rieko in the spat with Sexton.
And I'm no stranger to the club in favour of replacing Reece. I've got the flag and scarf.
Dagg was correct in what he said.
people what ex players to speak out but when they do it upsets people because is not what they like to hear.And nobody has actually disputed his point. But why do you think he singled out Rieko, but ignored Sevu who is worse under the high ball and was atrocious on the weekend? I find it hard to take him seriously when he's discussing our problems with the back three but doesn't even mention the player that is objectively the worst of the three under the high ball. I reckon if you asked him to pick his back three, it'd exclude Rieko but still include Sevu.
I get that people are craving real analysis that is actually critical of our poor play, but this isn't really that. This is more Dagg feeling comfortable having a dig at a player he doesn't like, while ignoring or praising his own. The fact that people see this as good analysis just because someone finally said something critical shows just how bad things are in NZ media.
Yes you're dead right. Happy for the criticism towards Rieko, but ummmm......the other 2 that were there at the back? Where's their criticism? Cantabs for you, never criticise their own but rip everyone else to shreds.
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I only care if the criticism is valid.
Or do we now expect that the only time we appear to get honesty, they need to preside over the remaining match day 22 and conjure up experiences that clearly haven't changed over years?
He was talking about the issues with our back three, and singled out Rieko as the problem, Jordan as the apparent saviour despite his ongoing issues under the high ball, and then completely ignored the idiot that cost us the match in the final 10 (who also has a history of getting himself carded going for high balls!). Not saying his criticism wasn't valid, but the bias is next level, so pretty hard to take him seriously.
It comes back to former players never criticising players they were mates with or from their own province, have to take what they say with a giant grain of salt. Reece should have absolutely hung out to dry after that performance, if he gets picked against the Boks I will lose my shit.
I think it's completely valid that he points out Rieko has had this skill deficit for that long. And in context from the snippet I watched they were talking about the ability of wingers to contest and catch a high ball.
After all he did support Rieko in the spat with Sexton.
And I'm no stranger to the club in favour of replacing Reece. I've got the flag and scarf.
Dagg was correct in what he said.
people what ex players to speak out but when they do it upsets people because is not what they like to hear.And nobody has actually disputed his point. But why do you think he singled out Rieko, but ignored Sevu who is worse under the high ball and was atrocious on the weekend? I find it hard to take him seriously when he's discussing our problems with the back three but doesn't even mention the player that is objectively the worst of the three under the high ball. I reckon if you asked him to pick his back three, it'd exclude Rieko but still include Sevu.
I get that people are craving real analysis that is actually critical of our poor play, but this isn't really that. This is more Dagg feeling comfortable having a dig at a player he doesn't like, while ignoring or praising his own. The fact that people see this as good analysis just because someone finally said something critical shows just how bad things are in NZ media.
Yes you're dead right. Happy for the criticism towards Rieko, but ummmm......the other 2 that were there at the back? Where's their criticism? Cantabs for you, never criticise their own but rip everyone else to shreds.
I'll give you Reece, but Jordan has serious credit in the bank being the only lad who can actually score tries these days and is soon to be the top scoring Allblack of all time barring a precipitous fall from grace.
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@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I only care if the criticism is valid.
Or do we now expect that the only time we appear to get honesty, they need to preside over the remaining match day 22 and conjure up experiences that clearly haven't changed over years?
He was talking about the issues with our back three, and singled out Rieko as the problem, Jordan as the apparent saviour despite his ongoing issues under the high ball, and then completely ignored the idiot that cost us the match in the final 10 (who also has a history of getting himself carded going for high balls!). Not saying his criticism wasn't valid, but the bias is next level, so pretty hard to take him seriously.
It comes back to former players never criticising players they were mates with or from their own province, have to take what they say with a giant grain of salt. Reece should have absolutely hung out to dry after that performance, if he gets picked against the Boks I will lose my shit.
I think it's completely valid that he points out Rieko has had this skill deficit for that long. And in context from the snippet I watched they were talking about the ability of wingers to contest and catch a high ball.
After all he did support Rieko in the spat with Sexton.
And I'm no stranger to the club in favour of replacing Reece. I've got the flag and scarf.
Dagg was correct in what he said.
people what ex players to speak out but when they do it upsets people because is not what they like to hear.And nobody has actually disputed his point. But why do you think he singled out Rieko, but ignored Sevu who is worse under the high ball and was atrocious on the weekend? I find it hard to take him seriously when he's discussing our problems with the back three but doesn't even mention the player that is objectively the worst of the three under the high ball. I reckon if you asked him to pick his back three, it'd exclude Rieko but still include Sevu.
I get that people are craving real analysis that is actually critical of our poor play, but this isn't really that. This is more Dagg feeling comfortable having a dig at a player he doesn't like, while ignoring or praising his own. The fact that people see this as good analysis just because someone finally said something critical shows just how bad things are in NZ media.
Yes you're dead right. Happy for the criticism towards Rieko, but ummmm......the other 2 that were there at the back? Where's their criticism? Cantabs for you, never criticise their own but rip everyone else to shreds.
I'll give you Reece, but Jordan has serious credit in the bank being the only lad who can actually score tries these days and is soon to be the top scoring Allblack of all time barring a precipitous fall from grace.
Yeah he does, but still played his part in the loss too. Not talking about overall careers here.
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I only care if the criticism is valid.
Or do we now expect that the only time we appear to get honesty, they need to preside over the remaining match day 22 and conjure up experiences that clearly haven't changed over years?
He was talking about the issues with our back three, and singled out Rieko as the problem, Jordan as the apparent saviour despite his ongoing issues under the high ball, and then completely ignored the idiot that cost us the match in the final 10 (who also has a history of getting himself carded going for high balls!). Not saying his criticism wasn't valid, but the bias is next level, so pretty hard to take him seriously.
It comes back to former players never criticising players they were mates with or from their own province, have to take what they say with a giant grain of salt. Reece should have absolutely hung out to dry after that performance, if he gets picked against the Boks I will lose my shit.
I think it's completely valid that he points out Rieko has had this skill deficit for that long. And in context from the snippet I watched they were talking about the ability of wingers to contest and catch a high ball.
After all he did support Rieko in the spat with Sexton.
And I'm no stranger to the club in favour of replacing Reece. I've got the flag and scarf.
Dagg was correct in what he said.
people what ex players to speak out but when they do it upsets people because is not what they like to hear.And nobody has actually disputed his point. But why do you think he singled out Rieko, but ignored Sevu who is worse under the high ball and was atrocious on the weekend? I find it hard to take him seriously when he's discussing our problems with the back three but doesn't even mention the player that is objectively the worst of the three under the high ball. I reckon if you asked him to pick his back three, it'd exclude Rieko but still include Sevu.
I get that people are craving real analysis that is actually critical of our poor play, but this isn't really that. This is more Dagg feeling comfortable having a dig at a player he doesn't like, while ignoring or praising his own. The fact that people see this as good analysis just because someone finally said something critical shows just how bad things are in NZ media.
Yes you're dead right. Happy for the criticism towards Rieko, but ummmm......the other 2 that were there at the back? Where's their criticism? Cantabs for you, never criticise their own but rip everyone else to shreds.
I'll give you Reece, but Jordan has serious credit in the bank being the only lad who can actually score tries these days and is soon to be the top scoring Allblack of all time barring a precipitous fall from grace.
Yeah he does, but still played his part in the loss too. Not talking about overall careers here.
Im giving him the benefit of the doubt Dagg gave him, but accept that Dagg erroneously gave Reece a free pass too.
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@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
The best thing Rieko Ioane has done in an Allblack shirt in the last 5 or 6 years was to tell Jonny Sexton to "enjoy your retirement you kant". For that he will always be fondly remembered.
For now we need someone who can catch, kick and score the odd try.
Thanks for the memories xoxoxo.
I think you’re overdoing this
Has Rieko set the world alight at 13 or wing the last few years? Clearly no.
But he’s been given fuck all opportunity
He’s played at 13 outside a 12 that hasn’t put someone in space since 2008. Every time he touches the ball it’s a short crash ball or a pop pass from a JB tackle. For all the wanking on around here about how good JB is at 12, he does precisely nothing to set up his 13 or anyone further outside him. I can hardly remember a scenario when Rieko has been given the ball in even enough space to have to make a decision as to how to attack - it’s literally catch the short pass and crash into the defender right in front of you.
On the wing he’s seen the same quality of ball - that is to say, putrid
In the meantime he’s been exceptional on defense, very well organised and absolutely first-rate when scrambling. Saved our asses on a number of occasions
He sucked last weekend, and he’s shit in the air - and probably not the best chaser of kicks. But this weird revisionist crap that he’s been useless for years is just nonsense and has to go
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@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I only care if the criticism is valid.
Or do we now expect that the only time we appear to get honesty, they need to preside over the remaining match day 22 and conjure up experiences that clearly haven't changed over years?
He was talking about the issues with our back three, and singled out Rieko as the problem, Jordan as the apparent saviour despite his ongoing issues under the high ball, and then completely ignored the idiot that cost us the match in the final 10 (who also has a history of getting himself carded going for high balls!). Not saying his criticism wasn't valid, but the bias is next level, so pretty hard to take him seriously.
It comes back to former players never criticising players they were mates with or from their own province, have to take what they say with a giant grain of salt. Reece should have absolutely hung out to dry after that performance, if he gets picked against the Boks I will lose my shit.
I think it's completely valid that he points out Rieko has had this skill deficit for that long. And in context from the snippet I watched they were talking about the ability of wingers to contest and catch a high ball.
After all he did support Rieko in the spat with Sexton.
And I'm no stranger to the club in favour of replacing Reece. I've got the flag and scarf.
Dagg was correct in what he said.
people what ex players to speak out but when they do it upsets people because is not what they like to hear.The hypocrisy is the issue, not the speaking out, if he'd levelled the exact same deserved criticism at Reece then this wouldn't even be an issue and you lot wouldn't need to be defending him.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I only care if the criticism is valid.
Or do we now expect that the only time we appear to get honesty, they need to preside over the remaining match day 22 and conjure up experiences that clearly haven't changed over years?
He was talking about the issues with our back three, and singled out Rieko as the problem, Jordan as the apparent saviour despite his ongoing issues under the high ball, and then completely ignored the idiot that cost us the match in the final 10 (who also has a history of getting himself carded going for high balls!). Not saying his criticism wasn't valid, but the bias is next level, so pretty hard to take him seriously.
It comes back to former players never criticising players they were mates with or from their own province, have to take what they say with a giant grain of salt. Reece should have absolutely hung out to dry after that performance, if he gets picked against the Boks I will lose my shit.
I think it's completely valid that he points out Rieko has had this skill deficit for that long. And in context from the snippet I watched they were talking about the ability of wingers to contest and catch a high ball.
After all he did support Rieko in the spat with Sexton.
And I'm no stranger to the club in favour of replacing Reece. I've got the flag and scarf.
Dagg was correct in what he said.
people what ex players to speak out but when they do it upsets people because is not what they like to hear.The hypocrisy is the issue, not the speaking out, if he'd levelled the exact same deserved criticism at Reece then this wouldn't even be an issue and you lot wouldn't need to be defending him.
lol I don’t need to defend anyone they live or die by their actions.
Dogg is allowed an opinion like everyone else you can’t please everyone with comments and you shouldn’t have to .
Fuck em,Smowflakes people with their weak feelings.and little hurt egos because they don’t like what someone says.
You can disagree sure but you can’t control what people say. -
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I only care if the criticism is valid.
Or do we now expect that the only time we appear to get honesty, they need to preside over the remaining match day 22 and conjure up experiences that clearly haven't changed over years?
He was talking about the issues with our back three, and singled out Rieko as the problem, Jordan as the apparent saviour despite his ongoing issues under the high ball, and then completely ignored the idiot that cost us the match in the final 10 (who also has a history of getting himself carded going for high balls!). Not saying his criticism wasn't valid, but the bias is next level, so pretty hard to take him seriously.
It comes back to former players never criticising players they were mates with or from their own province, have to take what they say with a giant grain of salt. Reece should have absolutely hung out to dry after that performance, if he gets picked against the Boks I will lose my shit.
I think it's completely valid that he points out Rieko has had this skill deficit for that long. And in context from the snippet I watched they were talking about the ability of wingers to contest and catch a high ball.
After all he did support Rieko in the spat with Sexton.
And I'm no stranger to the club in favour of replacing Reece. I've got the flag and scarf.
Dagg was correct in what he said.
people what ex players to speak out but when they do it upsets people because is not what they like to hear.The hypocrisy is the issue, not the speaking out, if he'd levelled the exact same deserved criticism at Reece then this wouldn't even be an issue and you lot wouldn't need to be defending him.
lol I don’t need to defend anyone they live or die by their actions.
Dogg is allowed an opinion like everyone else you can’t please everyone with comments and you shouldn’t have to .
Fuck em,Smowflakes people with their weak feelings.and little hurt egos because they don’t like what someone says.
You can disagree sure but you can’t control what people say.And anyone else can call out his opinion as being hypocritical B/S - and we are, an opinion than some on here clearly don't like by how quickly they're jumping in to defend him.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I only care if the criticism is valid.
Or do we now expect that the only time we appear to get honesty, they need to preside over the remaining match day 22 and conjure up experiences that clearly haven't changed over years?
He was talking about the issues with our back three, and singled out Rieko as the problem, Jordan as the apparent saviour despite his ongoing issues under the high ball, and then completely ignored the idiot that cost us the match in the final 10 (who also has a history of getting himself carded going for high balls!). Not saying his criticism wasn't valid, but the bias is next level, so pretty hard to take him seriously.
It comes back to former players never criticising players they were mates with or from their own province, have to take what they say with a giant grain of salt. Reece should have absolutely hung out to dry after that performance, if he gets picked against the Boks I will lose my shit.
I think it's completely valid that he points out Rieko has had this skill deficit for that long. And in context from the snippet I watched they were talking about the ability of wingers to contest and catch a high ball.
After all he did support Rieko in the spat with Sexton.
And I'm no stranger to the club in favour of replacing Reece. I've got the flag and scarf.
Dagg was correct in what he said.
people what ex players to speak out but when they do it upsets people because is not what they like to hear.The hypocrisy is the issue, not the speaking out, if he'd levelled the exact same deserved criticism at Reece then this wouldn't even be an issue and you lot wouldn't need to be defending him.
lol I don’t need to defend anyone they live or die by their actions.
Dogg is allowed an opinion like everyone else you can’t please everyone with comments and you shouldn’t have to .
Fuck em,Smowflakes people with their weak feelings.and little hurt egos because they don’t like what someone says.
You can disagree sure but you can’t control what people say.And anyone else can call out his opinion as being hypocritical B/S - and we are, an opinion than some on here clearly don't like by how quickly they're jumping in to defend him.
Yep you can I am not defending so much Dagg as his right to say it.
You can say what you like like he can and anyone can comment on it. -
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I only care if the criticism is valid.
Or do we now expect that the only time we appear to get honesty, they need to preside over the remaining match day 22 and conjure up experiences that clearly haven't changed over years?
He was talking about the issues with our back three, and singled out Rieko as the problem, Jordan as the apparent saviour despite his ongoing issues under the high ball, and then completely ignored the idiot that cost us the match in the final 10 (who also has a history of getting himself carded going for high balls!). Not saying his criticism wasn't valid, but the bias is next level, so pretty hard to take him seriously.
It comes back to former players never criticising players they were mates with or from their own province, have to take what they say with a giant grain of salt. Reece should have absolutely hung out to dry after that performance, if he gets picked against the Boks I will lose my shit.
I think it's completely valid that he points out Rieko has had this skill deficit for that long. And in context from the snippet I watched they were talking about the ability of wingers to contest and catch a high ball.
After all he did support Rieko in the spat with Sexton.
And I'm no stranger to the club in favour of replacing Reece. I've got the flag and scarf.
Dagg was correct in what he said.
people what ex players to speak out but when they do it upsets people because is not what they like to hear.The hypocrisy is the issue, not the speaking out, if he'd levelled the exact same deserved criticism at Reece then this wouldn't even be an issue and you lot wouldn't need to be defending him.
lol I don’t need to defend anyone they live or die by their actions.
Dogg is allowed an opinion like everyone else you can’t please everyone with comments and you shouldn’t have to .
Fuck em,Smowflakes people with their weak feelings.and little hurt egos because they don’t like what someone says.
You can disagree sure but you can’t control what people say.And anyone else can call out his opinion as being hypocritical B/S - and we are, an opinion than some on here clearly don't like by how quickly they're jumping in to defend him.
Yep you can I am not defending so much Dagg as his right to say it.
You can say what you like like he can and anyone can comment on it.If you go back over the posts on this I don't think anyone has claimed Dagg can't say what he said, so I don't think you need to defend his right to say it.
Being criticised for what he said (and didn't say) is different than not being allowed to say it.
