All Blacks 2025
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader Yeah - and I'm far from the camp of "XYZ needs to be given a go".
But, you've got to have an eye on development and give the dirty-dirties an occasional run.
This season, from here, there's very little opportunity for that. France did us a favour by sending their B team.
I think the thinking needs to change, the rwc is the big priority and then quite obviously the rugby championship/bledisloe and the games v the Boks in particular.
The EOYT are where there should be more experimentation and sometimes an occasional loss in those does the world of good in the longer run. The 1993 loss to England fuelled the 1995 team in that semi. Laurie Mains admitted that the coaching staff were really worried about England heading into the rwc 1995 but they were determined not to lose that game because of 93. The 1986 loss in Nantes was massive in focusing the 1987 ABs to get the job done versus France in the final.
I firmly think the 1996 series win in SA and the great two years of 96 and 97 happened because of the loss in the 1995 rwc final.
Losing a game here or there is not the end of the world if it leads to medium to long term growth and acts as a catalyst for future success. I'm not saying normalise failure but rather see it as an opportunity for learning and improvement.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
2011 and 2015 happened because of lessons learned in 2007
Although, ironically we played worse in 2011 against the french than we did in 2007.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Meh, I'm firmly in the camp of impress at training. Players shouldn't be given caps for the hell of it.
I doubt many guys who got to this point are arseing about at training.
That's a fucking odd response. "Giving 100%" at training doesn't entitle you to a participation cap.
yep,but the opposite applies, if you don't give 100% at training, you don't want to play enough.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
2011 and 2015 happened because of lessons learned in 2007
Ironically Conrad Smith reckons the 2007 team had the best players
The whole group didn't know how to win, got over the hump in 2011 and reached their peak in 2015/16.
Reminds me of the Hurricanes team that lost the final to the Highlanders. I'd argue they were a better team than the one that won the following year
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Meh, I'm firmly in the camp of impress at training. Players shouldn't be given caps for the hell of it.
I doubt many guys who got to this point are arseing about at training.
That's a fucking odd response. "Giving 100%" at training doesn't entitle you to a participation cap.
That's a fucking hostile response.
If you've got to be one of the 36 best players in the country, I expect they're trying to impress at training - which your "Meh" seems pretty dismissive of.
Reece, playing for the Crusaders, is always going to look a lot better and score more tries than he would playing for another team. He’s been a top performer at Super Rugby and underperformed at test level for years now. The coaches should be able to recognise that and select accordingly.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
2011 and 2015 happened because of lessons learned in 2007
Ironically Conrad Smith reckons the 2007 team had the best players
Agree with Conrad here.
The 2007 team was so far and away better than the rest of the world, they just had one bad game at the most inopportune of times.
Reply that tournament 10 times and the All Blacks win nine of them, regardless of what XV they field.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal Certainly wasn't the case last year. The Crusaders looked (and were) rubbish, and Sevu looked like he was carrying the whole team on his back most of the time.
Probably a degree of truth that it's harder to shine at the Highlanders, but I don't think it's the case at the other three teams.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
2011 and 2015 happened because of lessons learned in 2007
Ironically Conrad Smith reckons the 2007 team had the best players
The whole group didn't know how to win, got over the hump in 2011 and reached their peak in 2015/16.
Reminds me of the Hurricanes team that lost the final to the Highlanders. I'd argue they were a better team than the one that won the following year
I love that you found a way to mention the Hurricanes.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
2011 and 2015 happened because of lessons learned in 2007
Ironically Conrad Smith reckons the 2007 team had the best players
The whole group didn't know how to win, got over the hump in 2011 and reached their peak in 2015/16.
Reminds me of the Hurricanes team that lost the final to the Highlanders. I'd argue they were a better team than the one that won the following year
I love that you found a way to mention the Hurricanes.
I thought the analogy was apt. IIRC that losing finalist team had a midfield consisting of M Nonu and C Smith, lots of other Canes greats that couldn't win it all that year
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
2011 and 2015 happened because of lessons learned in 2007
I think 2011 happened because of lessons learned in 2009 and how we changed our gameplan in 2010.
2015 was because we largely had consistency and a core group throughout that 2012-2015 period.
@DaGrubster i agree with Snakey. When you look at the overall collection of talent in that 2007 squad, we were loaded. Injuries, disjointed play, rotation and no luck, we’re our downfall.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
2011 and 2015 happened because of lessons learned in 2007
Ironically Conrad Smith reckons the 2007 team had the best players
Easily. That squad is by some margin the most stacked that's ever turned up at a RWC.
Absolute disgrace they were robbed by Barnes' incompetence only matched by WR permitting him to cheat us out of another one.
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A special visit to All Black Fabian Holland's Holland
At Fabian Holland's original club, Castricum, Adam Julian discovers 6'5 first fives and a rich history of Kiwis passing through or never leaving
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Yep, no doubt.
Even better than the teams that actually won in 11 and 15.
The best AB team not to win a WC. -
@Chris-B Oh, good. You agree he’s been quality at Super Rigby and ordinary at test level. Glad we’re on the same page.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal Yeah - I don't think Sevu is an AB great wing. I'm very happy if others come along who are better.
But, I expect them to be able to show their class in Super rugby. I thought Tangitau was well on the way this year. Carter gets his chance tonight.
But, we're having to shift Jordan back to his old job because the wing class of 2025 has been a bit disappointing.
