All Blacks 2025
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Has it dawned on anyone else that having the biggest loss in All Blacks history is 100x worse than losing the shitty Eden Park record??
@kpkanz how many records gave fallen in the past 4 or 5 years...too fucking many to remember
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We actually played some good footy last night. That first 40 when we played wide wide wide we got well behind them. That intercept was a massive moment because we had outflanked them again. Jordie Barrett is the key guy in that pattern his passing game is good. We also got our depth right. The problem was we just didn't get enough reward.
And in the 2nd half when we held the ball we still looked.good, we didn't do it enough, and then our set piece collapsed and we got stuck in the wrong end.
Lots of individual errors killed us. System errors killed us. But as I said in the match thread, I do not think this iteration of the ABs has this level of footy in them. We leak points. We are no longer able to strike and just break teams open.
We sort of look like Iteland, where the footy looks good, but there are never enough points to take the game away. Which when you look at the "against" column is a real issue.
My kingdom for a couple of real mean physical forwards. Even in the first half it was noticeable how the pack was completely unable to generate fast ball themselves, or stop south africa building momentum.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
We sort of look like Iteland, where the footy looks good, but there are never enough points to take the game away. Which when you look at the "against" column is a real issue.
If you are going to play like Ireland you need to do the fundamentals well. Notably kicking game to win terrority battle - at least get parity on the high ball - strong set piece - suffocating defence. Last night we offered none of that.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
I know this is an ice cold take, but I actually want Mo’unga back now.
Let’s give Razor no excuse. If we see that his coaching genius is reliant on certain players to unlock it, who cares if we start looking like a winning team.
I doubt that the injection of one player would change things much, but we won’t have - prediction time - a refrain of being able to point to the future, which I believe will be the new story emerging from the NZ rugby media.
Yeah I know what you mean , give him what he thinks he needs and then let’s see if it improves , if it doesn’t, no more excuses
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
I know this is an ice cold take, but I actually want Mo’unga back now.
Let’s give Razor no excuse. If we see that his coaching genius is reliant on certain players to unlock it, who cares if we start looking like a winning team.
I doubt that the injection of one player would change things much, but we won’t have - prediction time - a refrain of being able to point to the future, which I believe will be the new story emerging from the NZ rugby media.
Yeah I know what you mean , give him what he thinks he needs and then let’s see if it improves , if it doesn’t, no more excuses
Unless RM is going to kick all the up and unders, and catch all of ours and theirs, I don't think he's the magic pill
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
How the fuck did he gain 20 kgs shit is he 130 kgs now.
Perhaps 20kg was hyperbole. Probably closer to 10kg.
Point being, there are interviews from this year where he is talking about getting used to playing with his new additional weight and figuring things out.
ok I can believe 10kgs.
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
How the fuck did he gain 20 kgs shit is he 130 kgs now.
Perhaps 20kg was hyperbole. Probably closer to 10kg.
Point being, there are interviews from this year where he is talking about getting used to playing with his new additional weight and figuring things out.
ok I can believe 10kgs.
He was below 100kgs so putting on 10 would get him around the McCaw / Read size.
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4 games in the rugby championship so far and we have conceded 112 points, that’s an average of 28 per game.
Is it time to have a serious conversation about a legit defense coach or can we put this down to Argentina and SA just being that much better and the game of rugby changing? It’s probably a bit of both but to be honest, I’ve never seen our defensive structure look so out of sorts. That and missed tackles. I won’t even touch on last night attitude…
To my knowledge, they have Tamati Ellison in charge of that role without actually specifically stating it. Either way, a conversation is needed.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
We sort of look like Iteland, where the footy looks good, but there are never enough points to take the game away. Which when you look at the "against" column is a real issue.
If you are going to play like Ireland you need to do the fundamentals well. Notably kicking game to win terrority battle - at least get parity on the high ball - strong set piece - suffocating defence. Last night we offered none of that.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
We sort of look like Iteland, where the footy looks good, but there are never enough points to take the game away. Which when you look at the "against" column is a real issue.
If you are going to play like Ireland you need to do the fundamentals well. Notably kicking game to win terrority battle - at least get parity on the high ball - strong set piece - suffocating defence. Last night we offered none of that.
First half we did. Second 40 once again we got bogged down in our half and then our poor kicking game was exposed.
@gt12 on the Mo’unga point, I just think overall his game management is a little more controlled at 10 than both BB and DMac. He varies his depth and can just play the percentages a bit more. We saw that come to the fore in the RWC.
Not I’m not saying he’s the answer to all our issues, but if he is able to play the way he did before he left I think there is the beginning of better play from the pivot.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
We sort of look like Iteland, where the footy looks good, but there are never enough points to take the game away. Which when you look at the "against" column is a real issue.
If you are going to play like Ireland you need to do the fundamentals well. Notably kicking game to win terrority battle - at least get parity on the high ball - strong set piece - suffocating defence. Last night we offered none of that.
First half we did. Second 40 once again we got bogged down in our half and then our poor kicking game was exposed.
@gt12 on the Mo’unga point, I just think overall his game management is a little more controlled at 10 than both BB and DMac. He varies his depth and can just play the percentages a bit more. We saw that come to the fore in the RWC.
Not I’m not saying he’s the answer to all our issues, but if he is able to play the way he did before he left I think there is the beginning of better play from the pivot.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
First half we did.
The first half territory stats were 25% ABs 75% Boks.
Talk about playing with fire
The Boks had a try ruled out due to that minor knock on at the back of the ruck so we got out of jail there.
Jordie saved another try first half with his try saving tackle.
Our second half was worse but the signs were there in the first half - we simply don't play a game that works for test match rugby.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
First half we did.
The first half territory stats were 25% ABs 75% Boks.
Talk about playing with fire
The Boks had a try ruled out due to that minor knock on at the back of the ruck so we got out of jail there.
Jordie saved another try first half with his try saving tackle.
Our second half was worse but the signs were there in the first half - we simply don't play a game that works for test match rugby.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
The Boks had a try ruled out due to that minor knock on at the back of the ruck so we got out of jail there.
Knock ons were NZ 9 v SA 17
It seemed like the vast majority of the SA knocks were in the first half
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4 games in the rugby championship so far and we have conceded 112 points, that’s an average of 28 per game.
Is it time to have a serious conversation about a legit defense coach or can we put this down to Argentina and SA just being that much better and the game of rugby changing? It’s probably a bit of both but to be honest, I’ve never seen our defensive structure look so out of sorts. That and missed tackles. I won’t even touch on last night attitude…
To my knowledge, they have Tamati Ellison in charge of that role without actually specifically stating it. Either way, a conversation is needed.
@Landers92 we had similar discussions when McLeod was running our defence, so maybe there are deeper issues with our systems we run?
Although McLeod's systems were great on our line but depth wevgave do many metres.
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
How the fuck did he gain 20 kgs shit is he 130 kgs now.
Perhaps 20kg was hyperbole. Probably closer to 10kg.
Point being, there are interviews from this year where he is talking about getting used to playing with his new additional weight and figuring things out.
ok I can believe 10kgs.
He was below 100kgs so putting on 10 would get him around the McCaw / Read size.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
How the fuck did he gain 20 kgs shit is he 130 kgs now.
Perhaps 20kg was hyperbole. Probably closer to 10kg.
Point being, there are interviews from this year where he is talking about getting used to playing with his new additional weight and figuring things out.
ok I can believe 10kgs.
He was below 100kgs so putting on 10 would get him around the McCaw / Read size.
I doubt that very much. No professional forward ever clocks in under the ton these days
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4 games in the rugby championship so far and we have conceded 112 points, that’s an average of 28 per game.
Is it time to have a serious conversation about a legit defense coach or can we put this down to Argentina and SA just being that much better and the game of rugby changing? It’s probably a bit of both but to be honest, I’ve never seen our defensive structure look so out of sorts. That and missed tackles. I won’t even touch on last night attitude…
To my knowledge, they have Tamati Ellison in charge of that role without actually specifically stating it. Either way, a conversation is needed.
@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2025:
4 games in the rugby championship so far and we have conceded 112 points, that’s an average of 28 per game.
Is it time to have a serious conversation about a legit defense coach or can we put this down to Argentina and SA just being that much better and the game of rugby changing? It’s probably a bit of both but to be honest, I’ve never seen our defensive structure look so out of sorts. That and missed tackles. I won’t even touch on last night attitude…
To my knowledge, they have Tamati Ellison in charge of that role without actually specifically stating it. Either way, a conversation is needed.
Quick conversation.
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I’ve just jumped back in this thread after a couple of days and I’m ten pages behind. Are there still people talking about what a good job Robertson’s done of building depth and developing players?
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I think people are genuinely over complicating the issue (or perhaps I'm incredibly over simplifying it).
Since the 2017 Lions tour we have fallen for the myth that we have to win playing a different way to our DNA (ie, the skill sets and talents of our players, who really no one can compete with on the planet).
We are trying to copy the Europeans (over analyzing how many breakdowns in advance for a strike-play, or where on the field to box kick and the frequency etc).
We win and dominate because we had a stupidly simple game plan (that's extremely low risk) and did it extremely well and better than anyone else.
Hold the ball (don't kick it away), hold width on the field with players spread out (not having 4 guys within a metre of each other for a pod and allowing the defense to outnumber the rest of the attackers out wide), draw and pass, run at space, etc etc etc.
We have looked abysmal and ordinary for 5+ years because we are trying to beat the Europeans and South Africans at their own game.
We genuinely suck at it. We don't score tries like they do. At our peak we score stupidly dumb and easy tries.
Example, player sees a mismatch on the blindside, does a quick 1-2 for a simple overlap and we draw and pass and score. Or one of our big loosies uses some quick feet on a defender, gets a weak shoulder and off-loads to another running at the gap at pace.
Where are the dumb easy tries we would routinely score?
The irony that we actually looked like we were heading in that direction last night until the Kolbe intercept, and we reverted back to type with the 'smart' rugby.
Perhaps I have no idea what I'm talking about.
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@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2025:
4 games in the rugby championship so far and we have conceded 112 points, that’s an average of 28 per game.
Is it time to have a serious conversation about a legit defense coach or can we put this down to Argentina and SA just being that much better and the game of rugby changing? It’s probably a bit of both but to be honest, I’ve never seen our defensive structure look so out of sorts. That and missed tackles. I won’t even touch on last night attitude…
To my knowledge, they have Tamati Ellison in charge of that role without actually specifically stating it. Either way, a conversation is needed.
Quick conversation.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2025:
4 games in the rugby championship so far and we have conceded 112 points, that’s an average of 28 per game.
Is it time to have a serious conversation about a legit defense coach or can we put this down to Argentina and SA just being that much better and the game of rugby changing? It’s probably a bit of both but to be honest, I’ve never seen our defensive structure look so out of sorts. That and missed tackles. I won’t even touch on last night attitude…
To my knowledge, they have Tamati Ellison in charge of that role without actually specifically stating it. Either way, a conversation is needed.
Quick conversation.
After a performance like that, someone should be fired. A career ender if ever I saw one
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Those calling for Caleb Tangitau on the wing for the All Blacks should go watch the highlights of the Auckalnd VS Manawatu game.
At 7 minutes in he gets comprehensively beaten in the air for the high ball leading directly to a try. Other than that he plays well and is an attacking threat which means this weakness in his game will be overlooked when deciding who gets higher honours.
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Those calling for Caleb Tangitau on the wing for the All Blacks should go watch the highlights of the Auckalnd VS Manawatu game.
At 7 minutes in he gets comprehensively beaten in the air for the high ball leading directly to a try. Other than that he plays well and is an attacking threat which means this weakness in his game will be overlooked when deciding who gets higher honours.
@tubbyj said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Those calling for Caleb Tangitau on the wing for the All Blacks should go watch the highlights of the Auckalnd VS Manawatu game.
Gets comprehensively beaten in the air for the high ball leading directly to a try. Other than that he plays well and is an attacking threat which means this weakness in his game will be overlooked when deciding who gets higher honours.
There’s some big holes in his game without the ball. EOYT maybe.. but it would be a bad move to select him now
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
The Boks had a try ruled out due to that minor knock on at the back of the ruck so we got out of jail there.
Knock ons were NZ 9 v SA 17
It seemed like the vast majority of the SA knocks were in the first half
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
The Boks had a try ruled out due to that minor knock on at the back of the ruck so we got out of jail there.
Knock ons were NZ 9 v SA 17
It seemed like the vast majority of the SA knocks were in the first half
There were a few in the second half also when they pushed the attack at pace and some of the passes were behind the receiver.
