All Blacks vs Springboks II
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Just watched the 2nd half again. Williams saved two tries with his sheer pace, he's a freakish talent. The number of X factor backs the Boks have now is scary. In the past you just had to gain parity with their pack and you had them beat, now their backs can create opportunities from all over the field even if you nullify their pack. They are the complete package now.
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I didn't watch yesterday, so knowing the score and reading the thread I actually expected much worse.
I thought at half time both coaches would have been very happy. We were by far the better team, imposed ourselves and were in front. They had been outplayed but were close.
Huge turning point in that first half was we have an attacking lineout off that awesome BB kick, they have backs down all over the place. Who ever our retard of a lineout caller is, calls an overly complicated lineout, the ref lets thrm close the gap an upset our pod, turnover followed by THAT DMac chip kick. Chance to establish a big lead gone in like 30 seconds.
2nd half again we were actually really good for 29 minutes. Bok try was brilliant off that scrum, but we're in touch. Then two things happen at the same time. We sub a midfielder on our line, and once again our lineout call is idiotic. Try.
The next 4 minutes is an absolute horror show. 2 will Jordan errors, a shocker of a BB kick. Just low IQ rugby. And it never recovers.
South Africa though, wow. That 2nd half was perfect. Fast, accurate and brutal. What should concern everyone in NZ is i do not believe this AB team has that level of rugby in them. Maybe only France do TBH.
Absolute horror show last quarter for us. Absolutely sublime for South Africa. Well done to them I'm very fucking impressed.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
I didn't watch yesterday, so knowing the score and reading the thread I actually expected much worse.
I thought at half time both coaches would have been very happy. We were by far the better team, imposed ourselves and were in front. They had been outplayed but were close.
Huge turning point in that first half was we have an attacking lineout off that awesome BB kick, they have backs down all over the place. Who ever our retard of a lineout caller is, calls an overly complicated lineout, the ref lets thrm close the gap an upset our pod, turnover followed by THAT DMac chip kick. Chance to establish a big lead gone in like 30 seconds.
2nd half again we were actually really good for 29 minutes. Bok try was brilliant off that scrum, but we're in touch. Then two things happen at the same time. We sub a midfielder on our line, and once again our lineout call is idiotic. Try.
The next 4 minutes is an absolute horror show. 2 will Jordan errors, a shocker of a BB kick. Just low IQ rugby. And it never recovers.
South Africa though, wow. That 2nd half was perfect. Fast, accurate and brutal. What should concern everyone in NZ is i do not believe this AB team has that level of rugby in them. Maybe only France do TBH.
Absolute horror show last quarter for us. Absolutely sublime for South Africa. Well done to them I'm very fucking impressed.
Belter of a post.
Huge factor in this game was how Boks staff work was excellent while ABs’ was pretty average - that midfield sub being just one example.
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@sparky He's not jumping on the bandwagon - he always wears the jersey of the lowest ranked team (going into the game)
Although, I have a spare Bok jersey for ya
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Player wise.
Proctor has been given a real shot at centre but is not improving. Get rid.
Wallace Sititi got heaps of shit but watching it he was literally the only loose forward doing anything. When he went off we had no one cleaning anything up.
Vaai some good, lots bad, no physical presence when we needed it.
Barrett was shit.My random thoughts (all of which I qualify with "but alcohol may have affected my judgement and memory"):
- Thought Proctor had his best game in black. Not a massively high bar, but saw the glimmerings of promise.
- Thought Sititi was pretty good myself.
- Also thought Vaa'i was OK
- He's got to find the courage to drop Barrett
I agree with your comment about that attacking lineout just before half time.
That was begging for a standard throw to 2 or 4 and a maul.
I didn't notice the backs down, but maybe ABs did which tempted them in to the high risk option.
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Just watched the 2nd half again. Williams saved two tries with his sheer pace, he's a freakish talent. The number of X factor backs the Boks have now is scary. In the past you just had to gain parity with their pack and you had them beat, now their backs can create opportunities from all over the field even if you nullify their pack. They are the complete package now.
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Cannot believe in the press conference Razor basically said 'SA practice their aerial game a lot and we can't handle it'. Seriously.
Super disappointed right now. That was abject. I didn't bother with the last 20 - once we were 14 down we weren't coming back. Had no idea we'd just ship all the points.
You cannot have a result like that and not make some major changes. 15 point loss at home was our worst - to go to 33 is just embarassing. Razor wants utilities playing multiple positions. The evidence is continuing to show that does not work at Test level.
So much wrong. Worst thing is I'm not even super surprised that we turned in a performance like that.
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Cannot believe in the press conference Razor basically said 'SA practice their aerial game a lot and we can't handle it'. Seriously.
No fucking way?!
All the evidence points to that being the case, but that it actually is and he actually admitted it has me shocked. I think it would actually be better if he just came out and said that our guys are just cowards when it comes to taking high balls (which is what I thought was the actual explanation).
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The other thing, I noticed once we got close to halftime , and until end of game, if we did anything to look at getting a head of steam up, a Bok would go down injured. I know it's a piss off etc, but I never saw Scooter get in refs ear. I was sitting just in front a few touring Bok supporters who laughed and said it was there game. We weren't arguing etc, just agreeing, and the bottom line is if our captain etc are doing job, we should stay switched on anyway!
Was noticeable that they had a wterboy on sideling, conveying message non stop, he would use hand signals, and quite often just hold uo a number of fingers. Again why not us?@Dan54
Dan - this has frustrated me for so long. We want to be the Corinthians of rugby but we just need to be more cynical. As others have said - someone gets hit high make the ref/tmo think about it etc - it's not a great look but most top tier nations do it with some success. -
Number crunching that game based on the stats on Rugby Pass.
What stands out.
Terrible tackle percentage. 71%
Terrible line out percentage: 69%
Low tackle numbers by the back row. Ardie Savea on 9, Simon Parker and Wallace Sititi on 6. Jordie Barrett (11) and Billy Proctor (10) made the most tackles.Nine line breaks made but only one of those resulted in a try. South Africa had six tries from eleven line breaks.
I think what Robertson was doing with backrow was all wrong.
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Sad but we're a paper tiger now. Interesting that our own decline mirrors (at least in my view) the decline of the game as any type of spectacle that's worth watching.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Sad but we're a paper tiger now. Interesting that our own decline mirrors (at least in my view) the decline of the game as any type of spectacle that's worth watching.
Seems to also mirror the SA teams withdrawing from Super Rugby
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Sad but we're a paper tiger now. Interesting that our own decline mirrors (at least in my view) the decline of the game as any type of spectacle that's worth watching.
Seems to also mirror the SA teams withdrawing from Super Rugby
@Devon-Kiwi said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Sad but we're a paper tiger now. Interesting that our own decline mirrors (at least in my view) the decline of the game as any type of spectacle that's worth watching.
Seems to also mirror the SA teams withdrawing from Super Rugby
Been going on for longer than that. SA leaving is a red herring IMO. The loss of the middle tier of experienced pros from NZ rugby to Europe and Japan has had a far more damaging effect long term.
These weren’t guys that would have played for the ABs, but they brought the young guys through and instilled the work ethic and culture of excellence that is now lacking in NZ rugby.
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@Devon-Kiwi said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Sad but we're a paper tiger now. Interesting that our own decline mirrors (at least in my view) the decline of the game as any type of spectacle that's worth watching.
Seems to also mirror the SA teams withdrawing from Super Rugby
Been going on for longer than that. SA leaving is a red herring IMO. The loss of the middle tier of experienced pros from NZ rugby to Europe and Japan has had a far more damaging effect long term.
These weren’t guys that would have played for the ABs, but they brought the young guys through and instilled the work ethic and culture of excellence that is now lacking in NZ rugby.
@stodders said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@Devon-Kiwi said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Sad but we're a paper tiger now. Interesting that our own decline mirrors (at least in my view) the decline of the game as any type of spectacle that's worth watching.
Seems to also mirror the SA teams withdrawing from Super Rugby
Been going on for longer than that. SA leaving is a red herring IMO. The loss of the middle tier of experienced pros from NZ rugby to Europe and Japan has had a far more damaging effect long term.
These weren’t guys that would have played for the ABs, but they brought the young guys through and instilled the work ethic and culture of excellence that is now lacking in NZ rugby.
We have over the hill guys and young guys.
The guys in the middle of their career foxtrot Oscar if they dont get picked for the Allblacks early on.
So we have rookies and a cozy cadre of incumbents who are almost guaranteed selection.
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@Tim said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@antipodean Jesus Christ, rugby media is so fucking servile and clueless!
This came up on my timeline a week or so ago. - what a load of simpering intellectual masturbation
"What’s striking about Razor’s coaching style is how thoughtfully holistic it is.
Scott Robertson has mastered both rugby tactics and behavioural science. The self-proclaimed visionary lends his creativity to game-breaking attacking schemes and stifling defence. His IQ is impressive and while clearly a cut above the rest, what separates him is his EQ".
The messages that are delivered are carefully crafted to be concise and clear. Robertson’s experience at coaching workshops worldwide – at Saracens, the Brisbane Broncos, the Melbourne Storm, West Ham, the San Antonio Spurs and the Dallas Cowboys to name a few – have all informed and developed this skill.
This one quote sums up his approach perfectly: “I don’t motivate people, I inspire people to be motivated”
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
This one quote sums up his approach perfectly: “I don’t motivate people, I inspire people to be motivated”
I just snorted chocolate milk out my nose.
And I wasn't even drinking chocolate milk.
As it happens I'm reading Fozzie's book at the moment, and this sort of thing seems to align with the change in thinking in the NZR Halls Of Power: the commercial team are holding the reins and Corporate is the only language they speak.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Cannot believe in the press conference Razor basically said 'SA practice their aerial game a lot and we can't handle it'. Seriously.
No fucking way?!
All the evidence points to that being the case, but that it actually is and he actually admitted it has me shocked. I think it would actually be better if he just came out and said that our guys are just cowards when it comes to taking high balls (which is what I thought was the actual explanation).
@junior said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Cannot believe in the press conference Razor basically said 'SA practice their aerial game a lot and we can't handle it'. Seriously.
No fucking way?!
All the evidence points to that being the case, but that it actually is and he actually admitted it has me shocked. I think it would actually be better if he just came out and said that our guys are just cowards when it comes to taking high balls (which is what I thought was the actual explanation).
When Razor was first appointed I was pleased. That kind of comment at any level is a disgrace, let alone this level.
With comments like that and this inconsistency I have lost all faith in him and the coaching staff.
No sure if it is now possible but we still have 2 years before the next world cup. Still time for change me thinks !!! -
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
This one quote sums up his approach perfectly: “I don’t motivate people, I inspire people to be motivated”
I just snorted chocolate milk out my nose.
And I wasn't even drinking chocolate milk.
As it happens I'm reading Fozzie's book at the moment, and this sort of thing seems to align with the change in thinking in the NZR Halls Of Power: the commercial team are holding the reins and Corporate is the only language they speak.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Cannot believe in the press conference Razor basically said 'SA practice their aerial game a lot and we can't handle it'. Seriously.
No fucking way?!
All the evidence points to that being the case, but that it actually is and he actually admitted it has me shocked. I think it would actually be better if he just came out and said that our guys are just cowards when it comes to taking high balls (which is what I thought was the actual explanation).
@junior said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Cannot believe in the press conference Razor basically said 'SA practice their aerial game a lot and we can't handle it'. Seriously.
No fucking way?!
All the evidence points to that being the case, but that it actually is and he actually admitted it has me shocked. I think it would actually be better if he just came out and said that our guys are just cowards when it comes to taking high balls (which is what I thought was the actual explanation).
I am probably missing something here, but I don't get why people are upset about this comment. It's true, isn't it?
Also, do you really think it's a good idea for him to say publicly the players are cowards? If he hasn't lost the dressing room already, he will if he says something like that.
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One thing that's very easy to fix.
Start Dalton Papali'i at 7 in the Bledisloe. He managed 19.2 tackles per 80 minutes for the Blues this season.
Those extra hits would have been damn useful on Saturday when so much else turned to custard.
@sparky said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
One thing that's very easy to fix.
Start Dalton Papali'i at 7 in the Bledisloe. He managed 19.2 tackles per 80 minutes for the Blues this season.
Those extra hits would have been damn useful on Saturday when so much else turned to custard.
Closest player to Cane on the circuit you reckon?
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@junior said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Cannot believe in the press conference Razor basically said 'SA practice their aerial game a lot and we can't handle it'. Seriously.
No fucking way?!
All the evidence points to that being the case, but that it actually is and he actually admitted it has me shocked. I think it would actually be better if he just came out and said that our guys are just cowards when it comes to taking high balls (which is what I thought was the actual explanation).
I am probably missing something here, but I don't get why people are upset about this comment. It's true, isn't it?
Also, do you really think it's a good idea for him to say publicly the players are cowards? If he hasn't lost the dressing room already, he will if he says something like that.
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@junior said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Cannot believe in the press conference Razor basically said 'SA practice their aerial game a lot and we can't handle it'. Seriously.
No fucking way?!
All the evidence points to that being the case, but that it actually is and he actually admitted it has me shocked. I think it would actually be better if he just came out and said that our guys are just cowards when it comes to taking high balls (which is what I thought was the actual explanation).
I am probably missing something here, but I don't get why people are upset about this comment. It's true, isn't it?
Also, do you really think it's a good idea for him to say publicly the players are cowards? If he hasn't lost the dressing room already, he will if he says something like that.
To me it feels like passing the buck.
'Well I only have the players for a dozen or so weeks every year, if Kiwis aren't good under the high ball and South Africa are then there's not a whole lot I can do about it.'
On the other hand, it also shows that the All Blacks knew exactly what to expect and still had no idea how to defuse it. Didn't pick the best wing in the squad under the high ball, stuck a player who's historically struggled under the high ball at fullback (McKenzie's skills are above average but he's always been disadvantaged due to his height and one half decent game there last week shouldn't have convinced anyone that he's the best man suited to dealing with the Boks bombs).
So either way, a little bit weak on his behalf.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@junior said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Cannot believe in the press conference Razor basically said 'SA practice their aerial game a lot and we can't handle it'. Seriously.
No fucking way?!
All the evidence points to that being the case, but that it actually is and he actually admitted it has me shocked. I think it would actually be better if he just came out and said that our guys are just cowards when it comes to taking high balls (which is what I thought was the actual explanation).
I am probably missing something here, but I don't get why people are upset about this comment. It's true, isn't it?
Also, do you really think it's a good idea for him to say publicly the players are cowards? If he hasn't lost the dressing room already, he will if he says something like that.
To me it feels like passing the buck.
'Well I only have the players for a dozen or so weeks every year, if Kiwis aren't good under the high ball and South Africa are then there's not a whole lot I can do about it.'
On the other hand, it also shows that the All Blacks knew exactly what to expect and still had no idea how to defuse it. Didn't pick the best wing in the squad under the high ball, stuck a player who's historically struggled under the high ball at fullback (McKenzie's skills are above average but he's always been disadvantaged due to his height and one half decent game there last week shouldn't have convinced anyone that he's the best man suited to dealing with the Boks bombs).
So either way, a little bit weak on his behalf.
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@junior said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Cannot believe in the press conference Razor basically said 'SA practice their aerial game a lot and we can't handle it'. Seriously.
No fucking way?!
All the evidence points to that being the case, but that it actually is and he actually admitted it has me shocked. I think it would actually be better if he just came out and said that our guys are just cowards when it comes to taking high balls (which is what I thought was the actual explanation).
I am probably missing something here, but I don't get why people are upset about this comment. It's true, isn't it?
Also, do you really think it's a good idea for him to say publicly the players are cowards? If he hasn't lost the dressing room already, he will if he says something like that.
To me it feels like passing the buck.
'Well I only have the players for a dozen or so weeks every year, if Kiwis aren't good under the high ball and South Africa are then there's not a whole lot I can do about it.'
On the other hand, it also shows that the All Blacks knew exactly what to expect and still had no idea how to defuse it. Didn't pick the best wing in the squad under the high ball, stuck a player who's historically struggled under the high ball at fullback (McKenzie's skills are above average but he's always been disadvantaged due to his height and one half decent game there last week shouldn't have convinced anyone that he's the best man suited to dealing with the Boks bombs).
So either way, a little bit weak on his behalf.
They did know how to diffuse it, the're not stupid. They just weren't good enough. SA have been fine tuning that part of their game for a while now. NZ has been a bit challenged in mastering that at all levels. A bit like the 'rush' defence, and exits...
