What is decline?
-
More to the point of the thread, did we lose our identity on Saturday night?
I get reading too much in one result is 24-hour news cycle shit, but it wasn't just Saturday, more that felt like the culmination of a few years.
And this isn't just about us no longer being the all-time team we were a decade ago either.What exactly are the All Blacks known for now? Once, we were the team that owned the championship minutes either side of half time, and at the death. Our superior fitness and skill level allowed us to break teams with withering bursts of points. Yes our basics were very good, but that merely set the stage for our skill players to hammer home points in bursts and break teams.
There was a team on Saturday who did that, and it wasn't us. So if we aren't the fittest. And we aren't the most skilled. And we aren't the most dangerous. And we have a creaky set piece. And we don't kick well. What exactly are we? Does this AB team even have an identity any more?
This isn't just on Razor either, i didn't really know what we were and what we were trying to do under Fozzie either.
-
-
-
@mariner4life said in What is decline?:
More to the point of the thread, did we lose our identity on Saturday night?
I get reading too much in one result is 24-hour news cycle shit, but it wasn't just Saturday, more that felt like the culmination of a few years.
And this isn't just about us no longer being the all-time team we were a decade ago either.What exactly are the All Blacks known for now? Once, we were the team that owned the championship minutes either side of half time, and at the death. Our superior fitness and skill level allowed us to break teams with withering bursts of points. Yes our basics were very good, but that merely set the stage for our skill players to hammer home points in bursts and break teams.
There was a team on Saturday who did that, and it wasn't us. So if we aren't the fittest. And we aren't the most skilled. And we aren't the most dangerous. And we have a creaky set piece. And we don't kick well. What exactly are we? Does this AB team even have an identity any more?
This isn't just on Razor either, i didn't really know what we were and what we were trying to do under Fozzie either.
i admit i have only watched the 25 mini game of the second half, had club awards night....but it looked like we were just a bit soft...lacking passion?....and SA were very much fired up
-
@rewa267 said in What is decline?:
I think the All Blacks should select the team more on combinations to create a level of cohesion. For example the chiefs 8, 9, 10,12,13 combination. Siti, Ratima, Dmac,
Tupea & Lienert-Brown. With a Crusaders back 3 of Reece, Jordan & Leicesternot sure i agree on the exactly combos....but i have always liked the idea of picking existing combos, front row, then lock pair 9/10 etc.
-
@mariner4life said in What is decline?:
i couldn't give a shit if he has Andrew Johns' wide pass
Sure but Mauss was talking about his passing game and you claimed he doesn't have that wide passing game. It was a weird claim.
I think the more interesting point is that a few years ago there would've been a few loosies in NZ with that skillset. Now we are down to one and probably soon it will be zero
-
@Frank said in What is decline?:
I would take losing the Bledisloe to remove Robertson.
no!!
i am actually going to the EP Bledisloe. I've never been to a Bledisloe test. If i fly back to NZ and we fucking lose i will be ropeable.
-
No loss is acceptable, last weekend was shite, but as plenty have been pointing out, this has been a long time coming.
Sure this coaching group has issues, but these problems run deeper than just them, and further back than them and even Fozzie.
Not to mention, who the hell would step into this shit show?
-
@mariner4life said in What is decline?:
@Kirwan said in What is decline?:
@mariner4life said in What is decline?:
two things
I have been calling for him to be our starting #8 for 2 years
As i have said, his passing game is not why, i couldn't give a shit if he has Andrew Johns' wide pass, i want loose forwards who make physical differences. The rest is icing.
Also if he ever kicked the ball in a test i would want him exiled from the country let alone dropped.Yeah fuck forwards that kick;
hoskins is not Zinny. And never will be.
Never said he was, just pointing how dumb your comment was.
-
Fact is in the modern game our talent pool is no longer superior to other teams, in fact it's the opposite, it is a lot shallower than teams like France and SA. So we just absolutely cannot afford to squander talent away, but right now we have immature coaches that let personal beef and provincial bias affect their selections, and it's really hurting us.
The loosies is such a perfect example. These guys had access to Akira Ioane, Dalton Papali'i and Hoskins Sotutu, but all three have either been completely snubbed or barely sighted. This is three blokes with plenty of experience all hitting their prime, who destroyed every other trio at Super level playing a style of footy akin to the next level up.
The point of my post isn't that they should be our starting trio, the point is that if you add those three to our current stocks, we suddenly look very strong. But instead they've been inexplicably snubbed with vague references to both sides of the ball to justify it, so we are left with only the loosies that those guys dominated, and we're filling gaps with players like Blackadder or Kirifi who will never dominate at this level.
And the end result? Our loosies under Razor have been outplayed by the other Tier 1 sides nearly every single match. 6 is a mess, and I feel sorry for whoever does play there as we're pairing them up with two 8s who don't do the dirty work! All because our coaches can't bring themselves to pick the best 7 in the country.
I can't understand how NZR can let this stand in a professional organisation. The sooner we move these clown coaches on the sooner we can start rebuilding the ABs. Until then, it'll be more of the same bullshit they've served up so far.
We're contributing to our own decline when we are already battling external forces pulling our talent overseas. It's beyond frustrating to watch.
-
@Kiwiwomble you could go with Roigard & Savea & 8 &9 from there Hurricane days Jordy and Proctor in the midfield. The Blues back 3 with Will Jordan
-
I wonder if the decline is systemic in that so many New Zealanders are playing and coaching OS, so the competition to progress to first class rugby isn't there to the extent it used to be.
I am constantly surprised to see technical deficiencies in players though. How can up and coming scrum halves not model their passing on Aaron Smith? How do backline players not have a Cory fend, Ma'a wide ranging skillset and Dagg like security for the high ball?
But putting that aside, there's the selection ethos of the current coach who shuns outstanding competence in a position for the ability to play multiple? So instead of the bench being a risk management exercise, the entire team is from the loose forwards backwards.
We don't have that many players good enough to play multiple positions to Test standard.
-
@rewa267 said in What is decline?:
I think the All Blacks should select the team more on combinations to create a level of cohesion. For example the chiefs 8, 9, 10,12,13 combination. Siti, Ratima, Dmac,
Tupea & Lienert-Brown.LOL. Fuck no.
-
@antipodean said in What is decline?:
@rewa267 said in What is decline?:
I think the All Blacks should select the team more on combinations to create a level of cohesion. For example the chiefs 8, 9, 10,12,13 combination. Siti, Ratima, Dmac,
Tupea & Lienert-Brown.LOL. Fuck no.
Fuck I hoping that ship is sailing his time is done.
-
@antipodean said in What is decline?:
I wonder if the decline is systemic in that so many New Zealanders are playing and coaching OS, so the competition to progress to first class rugby isn't there to the extent it used to be.
I am constantly surprised to see technical deficiencies in players though. How can up and coming scrum halves not model their passing on Aaron Smith? How do backline players not have a Cory fend, Ma'a wide ranging skillset and Dagg like security for the high ball?
But putting that aside, there's the selection ethos of the current coach who shuns outstanding competence in a position for the ability to play multiple? So instead of the bench being a risk management exercise, the entire team is from the loose forwards backwards.
We don't have that many players good enough to play multiple positions to Test standard.
Watch the Bok, Argie and even the Wallabies backline passing. Done at pace, from depth, in front of the player and often running into space.
It's quite the contrast watching us play.
-
-
@gt12 said in What is decline?:
Mick the Kick was skills coach and left when they wouldn’t upgrade him to assistant.
I think we can age our skills decline that far back.
You're right but that begs another question
Why hasn't there been a replacement for Byrne generated from the NZ system? It gets worse when you consider that Byrne came from an AFL background
-
-
@Chris said in What is decline?:
@antipodean said in What is decline?:
@rewa267 said in What is decline?:
I think the All Blacks should select the team more on combinations to create a level of cohesion. For example the chiefs 8, 9, 10,12,13 combination. Siti, Ratima, Dmac,
Tupea & Lienert-Brown.LOL. Fuck no.
Fuck I hoping that ship is sailing his time is done.
He can take a seat with BB as well
