All Blacks vs Springboks II
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@Billy-Webb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@NTA said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Fist half thoughts:
Early on the ABs looked good if a little shaky under line speed pressure.
The first AB try was very nice. The intercept from Kolbe was a lack of eyes-up play by Proctor. Could have scored at the other end but the pace got to him.
Vaai is a dickhead. Not really a profound observation
maybe he should concentrate on pushing at scrums instead of clapping and laughing?Wiesse is the avatar of rip and tear.
Boks scrum going great guns with 30 gone.
B Barrett looking ponderous and slow. He doesn't like heavy traffic. Failed to exit right before half-time which was a basic bitch error.
New Bok winger is bloody useful.
AB defensive line noticeably crooked. Pushing hard in the first 2 channels but lagging a bit wider.
AB Lineout at 35:50 - wtf happened??
Everyone playing as frantically as a virgin couple on their wedding night. With about as satisfying a result.
Lot of injuries and HIA.
Impression: Boks are ascendant but not finishing their opportunities. ABs are attacking from depth - too deep IMHO - but lacking a bit of subtlety; not much in the way of deception.
Bed time. Second half tomorrow.
Great overall insights as ever Nick.
The bolded bit is not so much because I feel you're wrong - too much - but more because on replay you have to admire how Cheslin pressured him to pass, with the intention of then trying for the intercept.With all the talk of proctor coming in because he’s a distributing centre , he didn’t do the basics there and make the defender commit to him before he passed .
Proctor must be seriously running out of chances.
Past AB coaches jettisoned Laumape and Moala quicker than this.
I wasn’t intentionally having a crack at him but just saying it how I saw it , he fluffed his opportunity to show why he was brought in , instead of putting his winger in space he passed too early and allowed kolbie to go for the ball .
Kolbie loves to go the ball not the man , if he dummies at that moment, strong chance kolbie runs at the gap and comes up empty.Exactly this. Kolbe does this all the damn time, and he is good at it.
Therefore, if Proctor had been prepared properly he would have been aware of that - unfortunately we can't know whether he was prepped and it was his mistake, or whether he wasn't and it is poor coaching. -
Billy Proctor should watch how Brian To'o in the league managed to draw and pass to set up the outside man.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@Billy-Webb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@NTA said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Fist half thoughts:
Early on the ABs looked good if a little shaky under line speed pressure.
The first AB try was very nice. The intercept from Kolbe was a lack of eyes-up play by Proctor. Could have scored at the other end but the pace got to him.
Vaai is a dickhead. Not really a profound observation
maybe he should concentrate on pushing at scrums instead of clapping and laughing?Wiesse is the avatar of rip and tear.
Boks scrum going great guns with 30 gone.
B Barrett looking ponderous and slow. He doesn't like heavy traffic. Failed to exit right before half-time which was a basic bitch error.
New Bok winger is bloody useful.
AB defensive line noticeably crooked. Pushing hard in the first 2 channels but lagging a bit wider.
AB Lineout at 35:50 - wtf happened??
Everyone playing as frantically as a virgin couple on their wedding night. With about as satisfying a result.
Lot of injuries and HIA.
Impression: Boks are ascendant but not finishing their opportunities. ABs are attacking from depth - too deep IMHO - but lacking a bit of subtlety; not much in the way of deception.
Bed time. Second half tomorrow.
Great overall insights as ever Nick.
The bolded bit is not so much because I feel you're wrong - too much - but more because on replay you have to admire how Cheslin pressured him to pass, with the intention of then trying for the intercept.With all the talk of proctor coming in because he’s a distributing centre , he didn’t do the basics there and make the defender commit to him before he passed .
Proctor must be seriously running out of chances.
Past AB coaches jettisoned Laumape and Moala quicker than this.
I wasn’t intentionally having a crack at him but just saying it how I saw it , he fluffed his opportunity to show why he was brought in , instead of putting his winger in space he passed too early and allowed kolbie to go for the ball .
Kolbie loves to go the ball not the man , if he dummies at that moment, strong chance kolbie runs at the gap and comes up empty.Exactly this. Kolbe does this all the damn time, and he is good at it.
Therefore, if Proctor had been prepared properly he would have been aware of that - unfortunately we can't know whether he was prepped and it was his mistake, or whether he wasn't and it is poor coaching.Kolbe scored almost an identical try against the All Blacks in Wellington off an ALB pass years back which also lead to a Springbok victory. He's renowned for it so yes the ABs and Proctor himself should have been prepared for it. My issue here is that the coaching simply isn't good enough, especially in the backs. Holland and Ellison are both out of their depth and my question is how much longer can we afford to put up with it?
Proctor has been so consistent for the Canes and Wellington for the last three seasons and he just looks like a completely different player for the ABs, struggling to adapt to a gameplan that really doesn't suit him. He's mostly being used as a dummy runner and he's spending most of his time either blowing out rucks or chasing long kicks. He's been given very few opportunities in space due to our relentless kicking game, and I actually thought before that pass on Saturday, he was having his best test yet.
Razor needs to make some tough calls both within his coaching team, who he wants leading this team moving forward, and obviously the players on the paddock.
Against Aus I wouldn't mind seeing wholesale changes and the below team get a crack. I just think certain players would benefit from taking a seat for the next test before we blow their confidence entirely.
- Williams
- Taylor
- Newell
- Holland
- Va'ai
- Parker
- Lakai
- Sititi
- Roigard
- McKenzie
- Carter
- Tupaea
- Fainganuku
- Jordan
- Love
- Taukei'aho
- De Groot
- Lomax
- Barrett
- Savea
- Preston
- Barrett
- Barrett
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@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Past AB coaches jettisoned Laumape and Moala quicker than this.
Maybe my bad memory but didn't also Moala have a bad run with injuries?
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@stodders said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@Billy-Webb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@NTA said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Fist half thoughts:
Early on the ABs looked good if a little shaky under line speed pressure.
The first AB try was very nice. The intercept from Kolbe was a lack of eyes-up play by Proctor. Could have scored at the other end but the pace got to him.
Vaai is a dickhead. Not really a profound observation
maybe he should concentrate on pushing at scrums instead of clapping and laughing?Wiesse is the avatar of rip and tear.
Boks scrum going great guns with 30 gone.
B Barrett looking ponderous and slow. He doesn't like heavy traffic. Failed to exit right before half-time which was a basic bitch error.
New Bok winger is bloody useful.
AB defensive line noticeably crooked. Pushing hard in the first 2 channels but lagging a bit wider.
AB Lineout at 35:50 - wtf happened??
Everyone playing as frantically as a virgin couple on their wedding night. With about as satisfying a result.
Lot of injuries and HIA.
Impression: Boks are ascendant but not finishing their opportunities. ABs are attacking from depth - too deep IMHO - but lacking a bit of subtlety; not much in the way of deception.
Bed time. Second half tomorrow.
Great overall insights as ever Nick.
The bolded bit is not so much because I feel you're wrong - too much - but more because on replay you have to admire how Cheslin pressured him to pass, with the intention of then trying for the intercept.With all the talk of proctor coming in because he’s a distributing centre , he didn’t do the basics there and make the defender commit to him before he passed .
Think you have to give Kolbe a fair amount of credit there. He shaped to commit to the tackle and then changed with great speed to snare the intercept. He fooled Proctor, but I think many players would have got done there.
Most players make decisions based on the shapes and body language they see. When you look at it from behind Proctor, Kolbe makes the shape to tackle. If Kolbe had committed to the tackle and Proctor had held on, there would be howls that he didn’t pass.
I still think he had time to either delay a bit more , or double pump pass ( you can hold back the second one) but those things are instinctive and you do it naturally or you don’t .
But we are agreeing anyway, the winger gets all the credit and sucks him in .
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@stodders said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@Billy-Webb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@NTA said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Fist half thoughts:
Early on the ABs looked good if a little shaky under line speed pressure.
The first AB try was very nice. The intercept from Kolbe was a lack of eyes-up play by Proctor. Could have scored at the other end but the pace got to him.
Vaai is a dickhead. Not really a profound observation
maybe he should concentrate on pushing at scrums instead of clapping and laughing?Wiesse is the avatar of rip and tear.
Boks scrum going great guns with 30 gone.
B Barrett looking ponderous and slow. He doesn't like heavy traffic. Failed to exit right before half-time which was a basic bitch error.
New Bok winger is bloody useful.
AB defensive line noticeably crooked. Pushing hard in the first 2 channels but lagging a bit wider.
AB Lineout at 35:50 - wtf happened??
Everyone playing as frantically as a virgin couple on their wedding night. With about as satisfying a result.
Lot of injuries and HIA.
Impression: Boks are ascendant but not finishing their opportunities. ABs are attacking from depth - too deep IMHO - but lacking a bit of subtlety; not much in the way of deception.
Bed time. Second half tomorrow.
Great overall insights as ever Nick.
The bolded bit is not so much because I feel you're wrong - too much - but more because on replay you have to admire how Cheslin pressured him to pass, with the intention of then trying for the intercept.With all the talk of proctor coming in because he’s a distributing centre , he didn’t do the basics there and make the defender commit to him before he passed .
Think you have to give Kolbe a fair amount of credit there. He shaped to commit to the tackle and then changed with great speed to snare the intercept. He fooled Proctor, but I think many players would have got done there.
Most players make decisions based on the shapes and body language they see. When you look at it from behind Proctor, Kolbe makes the shape to tackle. If Kolbe had committed to the tackle and Proctor had held on, there would be howls that he didn’t pass.
Very much what Beaver said.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@Tim Mils providing two clear examples that BB kicked when he shouldn’t have - first when we were down 7 points and we had acres of space out wide with players aligned for in attack and limited Bok defenders. Terrible play.
Second we are now down by 14 and a miracle chip when we had numbers out wide and space but didn’t use it. Big momentum turner when the Boks recovered the ball and kicked it down the line into their 22.
That’s not team tactics but blinkered play from our 1st 5.
"hates an overlap" @Bones
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@Billy-Webb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@NTA said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Fist half thoughts:
Early on the ABs looked good if a little shaky under line speed pressure.
The first AB try was very nice. The intercept from Kolbe was a lack of eyes-up play by Proctor. Could have scored at the other end but the pace got to him.
Vaai is a dickhead. Not really a profound observation
maybe he should concentrate on pushing at scrums instead of clapping and laughing?Wiesse is the avatar of rip and tear.
Boks scrum going great guns with 30 gone.
B Barrett looking ponderous and slow. He doesn't like heavy traffic. Failed to exit right before half-time which was a basic bitch error.
New Bok winger is bloody useful.
AB defensive line noticeably crooked. Pushing hard in the first 2 channels but lagging a bit wider.
AB Lineout at 35:50 - wtf happened??
Everyone playing as frantically as a virgin couple on their wedding night. With about as satisfying a result.
Lot of injuries and HIA.
Impression: Boks are ascendant but not finishing their opportunities. ABs are attacking from depth - too deep IMHO - but lacking a bit of subtlety; not much in the way of deception.
Bed time. Second half tomorrow.
Great overall insights as ever Nick.
The bolded bit is not so much because I feel you're wrong - too much - but more because on replay you have to admire how Cheslin pressured him to pass, with the intention of then trying for the intercept.Yeah nah as you boys say
Proctor could have delayed or not pass
He fucked up
Wear it
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@Billy-Webb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@NTA said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Fist half thoughts:
Early on the ABs looked good if a little shaky under line speed pressure.
The first AB try was very nice. The intercept from Kolbe was a lack of eyes-up play by Proctor. Could have scored at the other end but the pace got to him.
Vaai is a dickhead. Not really a profound observation
maybe he should concentrate on pushing at scrums instead of clapping and laughing?Wiesse is the avatar of rip and tear.
Boks scrum going great guns with 30 gone.
B Barrett looking ponderous and slow. He doesn't like heavy traffic. Failed to exit right before half-time which was a basic bitch error.
New Bok winger is bloody useful.
AB defensive line noticeably crooked. Pushing hard in the first 2 channels but lagging a bit wider.
AB Lineout at 35:50 - wtf happened??
Everyone playing as frantically as a virgin couple on their wedding night. With about as satisfying a result.
Lot of injuries and HIA.
Impression: Boks are ascendant but not finishing their opportunities. ABs are attacking from depth - too deep IMHO - but lacking a bit of subtlety; not much in the way of deception.
Bed time. Second half tomorrow.
Great overall insights as ever Nick.
The bolded bit is not so much because I feel you're wrong - too much - but more because on replay you have to admire how Cheslin pressured him to pass, with the intention of then trying for the intercept.With all the talk of proctor coming in because he’s a distributing centre , he didn’t do the basics there and make the defender commit to him before he passed .
Proctor must be seriously running out of chances.
Past AB coaches jettisoned Laumape and Moala quicker than this.
I wasn’t intentionally having a crack at him but just saying it how I saw it , he fluffed his opportunity to show why he was brought in , instead of putting his winger in space he passed too early and allowed kolbie to go for the ball .
Kolbie loves to go the ball not the man , if he dummies at that moment, strong chance kolbie runs at the gap and comes up empty.Exactly this. Kolbe does this all the damn time, and he is good at it.
Therefore, if Proctor had been prepared properly he would have been aware of that - unfortunately we can't know whether he was prepped and it was his mistake, or whether he wasn't and it is poor coaching.Proctor has been so consistent for the Canes and Wellington for the last three seasons and he just looks like a completely different player for the ABs, struggling to adapt to a gameplan that really doesn't suit him. He's mostly being used as a dummy runner and he's spending most of his time either blowing out rucks or chasing long kicks. He's been given very few opportunities in space due to our relentless kicking game, and I actually thought before that pass on Saturday, he was having his best test yet.
Identical to the issue Rieko had at centre then. Boggles my mind that we wouldn't try to utilise both players running game when both are so dangerous ball in hand.
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I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.
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I'm pissed off, I really wanted the ABs to find a solid 13.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Past AB coaches jettisoned Laumape and Moala quicker than this.
Maybe my bad memory but didn't also Moala have a bad run with injuries?
Yeah and a bit of off field silliness didn’t help either
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.
People whinge about Rieko but I don't ever remember him throwing an intercept. Proctor is in there for his distribution game.
Proctor has zero try assists this season.
On another note Kirifi has won a single turnover.
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@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.
People whinge about Rieko but I don't ever remember him throwing an intercept. Proctor is in there for his distribution game.
Proctor has zero try assists this season.
On another note Kirifi has won a single turnover.
Gotta throw a pass for it to be intercepted mate.
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@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.
People whinge about Rieko but I don't ever remember him throwing an intercept. Proctor is in there for his distribution game.
Proctor has zero try assists this season.
On another note Kirifi has won a single turnover.
Goes back to gameplan. Our backline is rarely getting the opportunity to showcase their ball playing ability. We ran the ball for about the first 15 minutes of the test on Saturday and we were looking dangerous, then we reverted back to kicking the ball away and surprise surprise, we looked like shit again.
There was a notable example in the second half when we had a three man overlap running out of our own 22 and Beaudy decided to kick it. This is exactly what's hampering us atm, and I feel for both Proctor and Ioane who probably haven't been allowed to show what they are capable of because they just aren't getting enough chances to do so.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.
People whinge about Rieko but I don't ever remember him throwing an intercept. Proctor is in there for his distribution game.
Proctor has zero try assists this season.
On another note Kirifi has won a single turnover.
Gotta throw a pass for it to be intercepted mate.
Maybe its better to throw no pass instead of an intercept pass that leads to a try?
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.
People whinge about Rieko but I don't ever remember him throwing an intercept. Proctor is in there for his distribution game.
Proctor has zero try assists this season.
On another note Kirifi has won a single turnover.
Goes back to gameplan. Our backline is rarely getting the opportunity to showcase their ball playing ability. We ran the ball for about the first 15 minutes of the test on Saturday and we were looking dangerous, then we reverted back to kicking the ball away and surprise surprise, we looked like shit again.
There was a notable example in the second half when we had a three man overlap running out of our own 22 and Beaudy decided to kick it. This is exactly what's hampering us atm, and I feel for both Proctor and Ioane who probably haven't been allowed to show what they are capable of because they just aren't getting enough chances to do so.
Thats BB. He's incapable of focusing on a game plan for 80 minutes.
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Worth noting that the way the backline is setup the 13 doesn't make many passes
If the ball gets to the wing it's Jordie passing out the back to someone else who then passes to the wing. The centre plays flat so is the decoy if it's going wide.
If it does get to the centre, the vast majority of the time its to take it to the line
In this setup the centre often passes less than the wings
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@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.
People whinge about Rieko but I don't ever remember him throwing an intercept. Proctor is in there for his distribution game.
Proctor has zero try assists this season.
On another note Kirifi has won a single turnover.
And that's the issue when picking Kirifi. If he doesn't win turnover ball which is a lot harder to achieve at international level, then what is he there for? It's all he has to his game. I didn't mind him getting a go as reward for what he has done domestically, but after 6 tests and at 28 years old, what more is he gonna show us?
