All Blacks vs Springboks II
-
@Tim Mils providing two clear examples that BB kicked when he shouldn’t have - first when we were down 7 points and we had acres of space out wide with players aligned for in attack and limited Bok defenders. Terrible play.
Second we are now down by 14 and a miracle chip when we had numbers out wide and space but didn’t use it. Big momentum turner when the Boks recovered the ball and kicked it down the line into their 22.
That’s not team tactics but blinkered play from our 1st 5.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@Tim Mils providing two clear examples that BB kicked when he shouldn’t have - first when we were down 7 points and we had acres of space out wide with players aligned for in attack and limited Bok defenders. Terrible play.
Second we are now down by 14 and a miracle chip when we had numbers out wide and space but didn’t use it. Big momentum turner when the Boks recovered the ball and kicked it down the line into their 22.
That’s not team tactics but blinkered play from our 1st 5.
"hates an overlap" @Bones
-
@NTA said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Fist half thoughts:
Early on the ABs looked good if a little shaky under line speed pressure.
The first AB try was very nice. The intercept from Kolbe was a lack of eyes-up play by Proctor. Could have scored at the other end but the pace got to him.
Vaai is a dickhead. Not really a profound observation
maybe he should concentrate on pushing at scrums instead of clapping and laughing?Wiesse is the avatar of rip and tear.
Boks scrum going great guns with 30 gone.
B Barrett looking ponderous and slow. He doesn't like heavy traffic. Failed to exit right before half-time which was a basic bitch error.
New Bok winger is bloody useful.
AB defensive line noticeably crooked. Pushing hard in the first 2 channels but lagging a bit wider.
AB Lineout at 35:50 - wtf happened??
Everyone playing as frantically as a virgin couple on their wedding night. With about as satisfying a result.
Lot of injuries and HIA.
Impression: Boks are ascendant but not finishing their opportunities. ABs are attacking from depth - too deep IMHO - but lacking a bit of subtlety; not much in the way of deception.
Bed time. Second half tomorrow.
Great overall insights as ever Nick.
The bolded bit is not so much because I feel you're wrong - too much - but more because on replay you have to admire how Cheslin pressured him to pass, with the intention of then trying for the intercept.@Billy-Webb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@NTA said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Fist half thoughts:
Early on the ABs looked good if a little shaky under line speed pressure.
The first AB try was very nice. The intercept from Kolbe was a lack of eyes-up play by Proctor. Could have scored at the other end but the pace got to him.
Vaai is a dickhead. Not really a profound observation
maybe he should concentrate on pushing at scrums instead of clapping and laughing?Wiesse is the avatar of rip and tear.
Boks scrum going great guns with 30 gone.
B Barrett looking ponderous and slow. He doesn't like heavy traffic. Failed to exit right before half-time which was a basic bitch error.
New Bok winger is bloody useful.
AB defensive line noticeably crooked. Pushing hard in the first 2 channels but lagging a bit wider.
AB Lineout at 35:50 - wtf happened??
Everyone playing as frantically as a virgin couple on their wedding night. With about as satisfying a result.
Lot of injuries and HIA.
Impression: Boks are ascendant but not finishing their opportunities. ABs are attacking from depth - too deep IMHO - but lacking a bit of subtlety; not much in the way of deception.
Bed time. Second half tomorrow.
Great overall insights as ever Nick.
The bolded bit is not so much because I feel you're wrong - too much - but more because on replay you have to admire how Cheslin pressured him to pass, with the intention of then trying for the intercept.Yeah nah as you boys say
Proctor could have delayed or not pass
He fucked up
Wear it
-
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@Billy-Webb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@NTA said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Fist half thoughts:
Early on the ABs looked good if a little shaky under line speed pressure.
The first AB try was very nice. The intercept from Kolbe was a lack of eyes-up play by Proctor. Could have scored at the other end but the pace got to him.
Vaai is a dickhead. Not really a profound observation
maybe he should concentrate on pushing at scrums instead of clapping and laughing?Wiesse is the avatar of rip and tear.
Boks scrum going great guns with 30 gone.
B Barrett looking ponderous and slow. He doesn't like heavy traffic. Failed to exit right before half-time which was a basic bitch error.
New Bok winger is bloody useful.
AB defensive line noticeably crooked. Pushing hard in the first 2 channels but lagging a bit wider.
AB Lineout at 35:50 - wtf happened??
Everyone playing as frantically as a virgin couple on their wedding night. With about as satisfying a result.
Lot of injuries and HIA.
Impression: Boks are ascendant but not finishing their opportunities. ABs are attacking from depth - too deep IMHO - but lacking a bit of subtlety; not much in the way of deception.
Bed time. Second half tomorrow.
Great overall insights as ever Nick.
The bolded bit is not so much because I feel you're wrong - too much - but more because on replay you have to admire how Cheslin pressured him to pass, with the intention of then trying for the intercept.With all the talk of proctor coming in because he’s a distributing centre , he didn’t do the basics there and make the defender commit to him before he passed .
Proctor must be seriously running out of chances.
Past AB coaches jettisoned Laumape and Moala quicker than this.
I wasn’t intentionally having a crack at him but just saying it how I saw it , he fluffed his opportunity to show why he was brought in , instead of putting his winger in space he passed too early and allowed kolbie to go for the ball .
Kolbie loves to go the ball not the man , if he dummies at that moment, strong chance kolbie runs at the gap and comes up empty.Exactly this. Kolbe does this all the damn time, and he is good at it.
Therefore, if Proctor had been prepared properly he would have been aware of that - unfortunately we can't know whether he was prepped and it was his mistake, or whether he wasn't and it is poor coaching.Kolbe scored almost an identical try against the All Blacks in Wellington off an ALB pass years back which also lead to a Springbok victory. He's renowned for it so yes the ABs and Proctor himself should have been prepared for it. My issue here is that the coaching simply isn't good enough, especially in the backs. Holland and Ellison are both out of their depth and my question is how much longer can we afford to put up with it?
Proctor has been so consistent for the Canes and Wellington for the last three seasons and he just looks like a completely different player for the ABs, struggling to adapt to a gameplan that really doesn't suit him. He's mostly being used as a dummy runner and he's spending most of his time either blowing out rucks or chasing long kicks. He's been given very few opportunities in space due to our relentless kicking game, and I actually thought before that pass on Saturday, he was having his best test yet.
Razor needs to make some tough calls both within his coaching team, who he wants leading this team moving forward, and obviously the players on the paddock.
Against Aus I wouldn't mind seeing wholesale changes and the below team get a crack. I just think certain players would benefit from taking a seat for the next test before we blow their confidence entirely.
- Williams
- Taylor
- Newell
- Holland
- Va'ai
- Parker
- Lakai
- Sititi
- Roigard
- McKenzie
- Carter
- Tupaea
- Fainganuku
- Jordan
- Love
- Taukei'aho
- De Groot
- Lomax
- Barrett
- Savea
- Preston
- Barrett
- Barrett
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@Billy-Webb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@NTA said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Fist half thoughts:
Early on the ABs looked good if a little shaky under line speed pressure.
The first AB try was very nice. The intercept from Kolbe was a lack of eyes-up play by Proctor. Could have scored at the other end but the pace got to him.
Vaai is a dickhead. Not really a profound observation
maybe he should concentrate on pushing at scrums instead of clapping and laughing?Wiesse is the avatar of rip and tear.
Boks scrum going great guns with 30 gone.
B Barrett looking ponderous and slow. He doesn't like heavy traffic. Failed to exit right before half-time which was a basic bitch error.
New Bok winger is bloody useful.
AB defensive line noticeably crooked. Pushing hard in the first 2 channels but lagging a bit wider.
AB Lineout at 35:50 - wtf happened??
Everyone playing as frantically as a virgin couple on their wedding night. With about as satisfying a result.
Lot of injuries and HIA.
Impression: Boks are ascendant but not finishing their opportunities. ABs are attacking from depth - too deep IMHO - but lacking a bit of subtlety; not much in the way of deception.
Bed time. Second half tomorrow.
Great overall insights as ever Nick.
The bolded bit is not so much because I feel you're wrong - too much - but more because on replay you have to admire how Cheslin pressured him to pass, with the intention of then trying for the intercept.With all the talk of proctor coming in because he’s a distributing centre , he didn’t do the basics there and make the defender commit to him before he passed .
Proctor must be seriously running out of chances.
Past AB coaches jettisoned Laumape and Moala quicker than this.
I wasn’t intentionally having a crack at him but just saying it how I saw it , he fluffed his opportunity to show why he was brought in , instead of putting his winger in space he passed too early and allowed kolbie to go for the ball .
Kolbie loves to go the ball not the man , if he dummies at that moment, strong chance kolbie runs at the gap and comes up empty.Exactly this. Kolbe does this all the damn time, and he is good at it.
Therefore, if Proctor had been prepared properly he would have been aware of that - unfortunately we can't know whether he was prepped and it was his mistake, or whether he wasn't and it is poor coaching.Proctor has been so consistent for the Canes and Wellington for the last three seasons and he just looks like a completely different player for the ABs, struggling to adapt to a gameplan that really doesn't suit him. He's mostly being used as a dummy runner and he's spending most of his time either blowing out rucks or chasing long kicks. He's been given very few opportunities in space due to our relentless kicking game, and I actually thought before that pass on Saturday, he was having his best test yet.
Identical to the issue Rieko had at centre then. Boggles my mind that we wouldn't try to utilise both players running game when both are so dangerous ball in hand.
-
I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.
-
I'm pissed off, I really wanted the ABs to find a solid 13.
-
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Past AB coaches jettisoned Laumape and Moala quicker than this.
Maybe my bad memory but didn't also Moala have a bad run with injuries?
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Past AB coaches jettisoned Laumape and Moala quicker than this.
Maybe my bad memory but didn't also Moala have a bad run with injuries?
Yeah and a bit of off field silliness didn’t help either
-
I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.
People whinge about Rieko but I don't ever remember him throwing an intercept. Proctor is in there for his distribution game.
Proctor has zero try assists this season.
On another note Kirifi has won a single turnover.
-
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.
People whinge about Rieko but I don't ever remember him throwing an intercept. Proctor is in there for his distribution game.
Proctor has zero try assists this season.
On another note Kirifi has won a single turnover.
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.
People whinge about Rieko but I don't ever remember him throwing an intercept. Proctor is in there for his distribution game.
Proctor has zero try assists this season.
On another note Kirifi has won a single turnover.
Gotta throw a pass for it to be intercepted mate.
-
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.
People whinge about Rieko but I don't ever remember him throwing an intercept. Proctor is in there for his distribution game.
Proctor has zero try assists this season.
On another note Kirifi has won a single turnover.
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.
People whinge about Rieko but I don't ever remember him throwing an intercept. Proctor is in there for his distribution game.
Proctor has zero try assists this season.
On another note Kirifi has won a single turnover.
Goes back to gameplan. Our backline is rarely getting the opportunity to showcase their ball playing ability. We ran the ball for about the first 15 minutes of the test on Saturday and we were looking dangerous, then we reverted back to kicking the ball away and surprise surprise, we looked like shit again.
There was a notable example in the second half when we had a three man overlap running out of our own 22 and Beaudy decided to kick it. This is exactly what's hampering us atm, and I feel for both Proctor and Ioane who probably haven't been allowed to show what they are capable of because they just aren't getting enough chances to do so.
-
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.
People whinge about Rieko but I don't ever remember him throwing an intercept. Proctor is in there for his distribution game.
Proctor has zero try assists this season.
On another note Kirifi has won a single turnover.
Gotta throw a pass for it to be intercepted mate.
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.
People whinge about Rieko but I don't ever remember him throwing an intercept. Proctor is in there for his distribution game.
Proctor has zero try assists this season.
On another note Kirifi has won a single turnover.
Gotta throw a pass for it to be intercepted mate.
Maybe its better to throw no pass instead of an intercept pass that leads to a try?
-
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.
People whinge about Rieko but I don't ever remember him throwing an intercept. Proctor is in there for his distribution game.
Proctor has zero try assists this season.
On another note Kirifi has won a single turnover.
Goes back to gameplan. Our backline is rarely getting the opportunity to showcase their ball playing ability. We ran the ball for about the first 15 minutes of the test on Saturday and we were looking dangerous, then we reverted back to kicking the ball away and surprise surprise, we looked like shit again.
There was a notable example in the second half when we had a three man overlap running out of our own 22 and Beaudy decided to kick it. This is exactly what's hampering us atm, and I feel for both Proctor and Ioane who probably haven't been allowed to show what they are capable of because they just aren't getting enough chances to do so.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.
People whinge about Rieko but I don't ever remember him throwing an intercept. Proctor is in there for his distribution game.
Proctor has zero try assists this season.
On another note Kirifi has won a single turnover.
Goes back to gameplan. Our backline is rarely getting the opportunity to showcase their ball playing ability. We ran the ball for about the first 15 minutes of the test on Saturday and we were looking dangerous, then we reverted back to kicking the ball away and surprise surprise, we looked like shit again.
There was a notable example in the second half when we had a three man overlap running out of our own 22 and Beaudy decided to kick it. This is exactly what's hampering us atm, and I feel for both Proctor and Ioane who probably haven't been allowed to show what they are capable of because they just aren't getting enough chances to do so.
Thats BB. He's incapable of focusing on a game plan for 80 minutes.
-
Worth noting that the way the backline is setup the 13 doesn't make many passes
If the ball gets to the wing it's Jordie passing out the back to someone else who then passes to the wing. The centre plays flat so is the decoy if it's going wide.
If it does get to the centre, the vast majority of the time its to take it to the line
In this setup the centre often passes less than the wings
-
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.
People whinge about Rieko but I don't ever remember him throwing an intercept. Proctor is in there for his distribution game.
Proctor has zero try assists this season.
On another note Kirifi has won a single turnover.
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.
People whinge about Rieko but I don't ever remember him throwing an intercept. Proctor is in there for his distribution game.
Proctor has zero try assists this season.
On another note Kirifi has won a single turnover.
And that's the issue when picking Kirifi. If he doesn't win turnover ball which is a lot harder to achieve at international level, then what is he there for? It's all he has to his game. I didn't mind him getting a go as reward for what he has done domestically, but after 6 tests and at 28 years old, what more is he gonna show us?
-
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.
People whinge about Rieko but I don't ever remember him throwing an intercept. Proctor is in there for his distribution game.
Proctor has zero try assists this season.
On another note Kirifi has won a single turnover.
And that's the issue when picking Kirifi. If he doesn't win turnover ball which is a lot harder to achieve at international level, then what is he there for? It's all he has to his game. I didn't mind him getting a go as reward for what he has done domestically, but after 6 tests and at 28 years old, what more is he gonna show us?
@African-Monkey would he be there if Jacobsen was fit? I don’t think so.
-
@African-Monkey would he be there if Jacobsen was fit? I don’t think so.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@African-Monkey would he be there if Jacobsen was fit? I don’t think so.
Whether or not he's in the 23 when Jacobson returns he takes up a spot that could go to someone else in the wider squad.
Meanwhile more tests tick over without Lakai getting a look and Lio Willie has been discarded from the squad.
-
They have had a look at 4 new loosie options this year...
CLW, Vaai, Kirifi and Parker...
-
Worth noting that the way the backline is setup the 13 doesn't make many passes
If the ball gets to the wing it's Jordie passing out the back to someone else who then passes to the wing. The centre plays flat so is the decoy if it's going wide.
If it does get to the centre, the vast majority of the time its to take it to the line
In this setup the centre often passes less than the wings
@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Worth noting that the way the backline is setup the 13 doesn't make many passes
If the ball gets to the wing it's Jordie passing out the back to someone else who then passes to the wing. The centre plays flat so is the decoy if it's going wide.
If it does get to the centre, the vast majority of the time its to take it to the line
In this setup the centre often passes less than the wings
Yep, I've been watching closely and Proctor has mostly been a dummy runner on attack and a man used as a first clean option when the likes of Jordie takes it into contact.
Can you get those stats? It would be also interesting to see how many times Proctor passed for the Canes compared to the ABs. Just totally different gameplans which isn't helping him progress and get comfortable in one of the hardest positions within the team.
-
@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Here's the stats for what I was talking about above
What I get from those stats is tight forwards should not be passing that much in a game.
They should be hitting rucks, hitting mauls, with some carries.
The out the back stuff is horse shit. Its the same pattern the Crusaders played last year to their detriment. All of the strike runners end up running diagonally across the field and no one is running hard and straight onto the ball.
