Rankings
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My quick mental arithmetic seems to suggest the points exchange after last night is somewhere between 0.65 and 0.70.
Meaning SA drops to third on 89.4ish below Ireland on 89.83.
Looks like Aus and Arg stay at 6 and 7 respectively. Not enough points exchanged to affect placings.
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That is the No. 1 world ranking as per the WR formula.
Official 2003-2025.
During covid someone used the formula and reverse calculated it backwards, from 2003 to 1870.
I teased out the No. 1 ranking.
If you add up the days at No. 1; NZ and SA are almost dead-level all-time.
Pretty incredible after 155 years.
Everyone else is a very, very long way behind. -
Long may it continue. Few things saffirs enjoy more than playing against, and (if we’re lucky) alongside, Kiwis. Just ahead of tuning each other fuktup before, during and after an BoksvEvil Test and sharing rugby yarns about each others’ countrymen that you share a mutual loathing because of provincialism. And just behind beating you in World Cup Finals.
And it’s because we respect you all so much that we are going to keep humilificating you senseless until the Cantab mafia is destroyed and the earth around the accursed hellhole known as Christchurch has been salted.
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2010 - 2018 was just incredible. It was exactly the time we should have been slipping right back into the pack with the game going fully professional and our talent being sucked offshore searching for $$, but that period of dominance is basically unparalleled in the history of rugby.
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I don't care about rankings or RWC wins when it comes to the Boks, I just need to know how long before they have an overall winning record against us. Does anyone who is good at maths able to predict that so I know when to drop dead to avoid it?
NZ have won 20 more games in head-to-heads with South Africa, so the Boks are unlikely to take a winning record anytime soon.
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I don't care about rankings or RWC wins when it comes to the Boks, I just need to know how long before they have an overall winning record against us. Does anyone who is good at maths able to predict that so I know when to drop dead to avoid it?
NZ have won 20 more games in head-to-heads with South Africa, so the Boks are unlikely to take a winning record anytime soon.
8 years minimum at an average of 2.5 games per season.
I remember when I started following these sorts of records it was quite strongly in SA's favour.
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OK.
The No. 1 all-time world ranking sorted, I think.
These observations are based strictly on stats compiled using the WR official rankings formula.
So they are “OFFICIAL”
Only 8 nations have ever attained the top ranking.
And only 4 of them have held the overall all-time No 1. Rank.
England and Scotland swapped the all-time ranking back and forth in the early days.
England had a run from 1880 to 1891, but the 1895 split seems to have stuffed the poms.
So Scotland established a margin as No. 1 that lasted a very long time, 1893 to 1946, even tho they didn’t hold a current No. 1 rank after 1905.
In 1946 the late starters finally consigned the Scots to history, South Africa taking over as the No. 1.
South Africa then retained the No. 1 all-time ranking for 71 years, until 2017, when New Zealand finally chased them down.
NZ retained that status until 2021 when the saffers reclaimed it, and they still hold it.
As of September 17th SA are both the current No. 1 and the all-time No. 1.
The total amount of time each nation has been current No. 1 (1871-2025), as of September 17th:
Right now, NZ will have to go on a run of over two years at the top to reclaim all-time status. All other nations are too far behind to have the slightest prospect of ever achieving that.
NOW.
The asterisks!
I’m not putting actual asterisks in, because this is OFFICIAL!
BUT.
Two of SA’s runs as No. 1 happened to coincide with WWI and WWII. No matches were played 1915-19 or 1941-45, 10 years.
For 10 years SA never played a game, while ranked No. 1. No body did. So . . . .
If you knock 10 years off the SA total; today, that would leave NZ 8 years ahead of them (49 years to 41).
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@No-Quarter a period when SA rugby was once again intent on nailing its own dick to the floor. Didn’t help that the financial pressures you mention were even more acute in the SA context.
Not a coincidence that France and Australia were dogshit for most of the decade and England were abysmal until Jones rocked up in 2016.
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@No-Quarter a period when SA rugby was once again intent on nailing its own dick to the floor. Didn’t help that the financial pressures you mention were even more acute in the SA context.
Not a coincidence that France and Australia were dogshit for most of the decade and England were abysmal until Jones rocked up in 2016.
Australia weren't bad in the 2010s. They were invariably the team to trip the ABs up when they were hunting down the consecutive wins record. They were just wildly inconsistent, but still had a big game in them.
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And only 4 of them have held the overall all-time No 1. Rank.
Love your work @mohikamo but can you please explain "all time No.1"?
Is that number of years (or total period) as No.1?
Re Scotland and England swapping top spot early on: suspect they were the only teams playing at that stage.
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The all-time ranking is the total amount of time a nation has been ranked No. 1.
The current No. 1 ranking can virtually change day-to-day, WR does the calculation every 7 days.
Scotland managed to accumulate 20 years worth of No. 1 rankings in ancient times.
But since 1905 Scotland have not garnered one single day of rank, while NZ and SA have been piling up decades worth, nearly a whole century.When NZ and a little later SA arrived on scene, that was the end for the Scots and all the rest of the Euros.
The Euros only occasionally pop their heads up at the top, sometimes only for a matter of days.
Since then the contest for world rugby supremacy has been solely a contest been NZ and SA. Making SA v NZ one of the most intense contests in all sport.
SA finally knocked the Scots out of the way in 1946.
Of the following graphs, one shows the time accumulating at various dates, and the other, the running total.
The total number of days ranked number 1, 1871 to 2025:
SA*
As per the WR formula, last time I looked, if you do not play any games, you do not lose points.
SA had the good fortune to be ranked No. 1 at the time of both WWI and WWII, no official games were played during those periods.
That meant under the WR formula they accumulated ten years worth of No. 1 ranking without having to play a game.
Even so; NZ still overtook them, some time in 2017. If you knock ten years off their total (I would) we would have overtaken them in 2007.
To-day SA lead NZ by a bit over two years; or NZ leads SA by about 8 years. Depends how you want to look at it.
Everyone else is decades behind.
The Scots are still closest, and they haven’t been ranked at No. 1 for 120 years! -
I remember when I started following these sorts of records it was quite strongly in SA's favour.
Rough numbers and times - You must have started following around the early '80s when it was about 14 to 20 to SA. We then went 8 to 2 through the 80s to catch up. I started paying attention in the early / mid 90s because it even at that 22 each mark (or there abouts). We then dominated for 3 decades as shown by us being 20 ahead now.
We are 7 to 4 down in the 2020's which is our worst patch since the 40s but that was 4 losses in one tour (when we were probably struggling to find a touring party of young men at all given our population and our "contribution" to the war).
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OK
This one is very close to my heart.
You read a lot of criticism on here about referees; about their competence.
But you seldom ever read a comment about a referee being biased.
It was not always like this.For the young ones; in olden times international referees were provided by the home team.
The accusations of referee bias were, therefore, relentless; and the saffer referees were definitely the most biased.
It’s actually quite a relief not to have to talk about referee bias anymore, but I will for moment.NZ had a negative record against SA for a very long time.
The main reason for this was the bias of SA referees.
The NZ v SA record since the introduction of neutral referees clearly bears this out.
The first time NZ had a neutral referee in a match in SA (1992); they won.
The first and only time NZ had neutral referees in a series in SA (1996); they won the series.Wins in matches between SA and NZ; by referee:
NZ has a better record against SA with neutral referees than they do with New Zealand referees!!!!!
NZ referees are actually too unbiased!SA v NZ has more interest for me than even World Cups. The teams are virtually always ranked No. 1 and 2. So always the ultimate competition. So long as we have the edge on them, I’m ok.
World Cups are nice; Bledisloe cups, fuck no one knew what the Bledisloe cup was when I was a kid . . . whatever.
We only played 3 matches against the Boks in the 80s. 2-1 in 1981.