All Blacks 2025
-
If SB has lower back issues that explains quite a bit, and possibly some of the scrum issues. No lock should be playing in the ABs with lower back frailties.
@nostrildamus
Funny you say that - I was at the game and SB spent a lot of time stretching his back and legs on his own - he also didn't look to me that he was running that freely. -
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
Why the flying fuck do they persist with Beauden Barrett at First Five?
His game management is atrocious these days.
BB was actually quite good in first 60. But we need a closer rather than a joker for the difficult games.
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
Why the flying fuck do they persist with Beauden Barrett at First Five?
His game management is atrocious these days.
BB was actually quite good in first 60. But we need a closer rather than a joker for the difficult games.
Bruh.
He may have had the odd okay moment but he made several poor decisions that either put us under pressure or didn’t take advantage of good forward play.
-
@Nepia I have deja vu, pretty sure we've had this debate before, I think you are massively under selling how effective he was at the back for us. Superb under the high ball, rock solid defender, long kicking game and good passing game are all attributes that led to him being MOTM on a number of occasions. He's absolutely saved our bacon when teams were barraging us with high balls more than once, that could have been useful on the weekend.
They moved him to the wing because they still wanted him in the back three while being able to keep Beauden on the park, but that was an absurd decision given the one thing he lacks is acceleration.
When he was moved to 12 he was our first choice FB and it wasn't close, and I'd like to see him moved back given how poor our back three have been lately.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia I have deja vu, pretty sure we've had this debate before, I think you are massively under selling how effective he was at the back for us. Superb under the high ball, rock solid defender, long kicking game and good passing game are all attributes that led to him being MOTM on a number of occasions. He's absolutely saved our bacon when teams were barraging us with high balls more than once, that could have been useful on the weekend.
They moved him to the wing because they still wanted him in the back three while being able to keep Beauden on the park, but that was an absurd decision given the one thing he lacks is acceleration.
When he was moved to 12 he was our first choice FB and it wasn't close, and I'd like to see him moved back given how poor our back three have been lately.
We've likely definitely had this debate before.
He was not initially moved to the wing, he went to the bench when BB took over at 15, then he later moved to the wing, then back to fullback, and he probably did have his best period in the time just before he moved permanently to 12, but that is all.
And like I said in another post, now that he's matured I don't mind if they give him another shot there, but I'm not going to pretend he was a superstar there previously. You can though. We can argue about it again in another couple of years.
-
Honestly reading that from Jane is just so absolutely damning of this current coaching group. We KNEW they were going to bombard us, and not only did we not select for it, the guys on the park had shit technique! So nobody had even worked with them on the best way to handle that!
And then Razor just waves that away with vague references about it being in SAs DNA? Despite the ABs being world leaders in this regard in recent history?
Fuck me, move these clowns on ASAP, absolute embarrassment to AB rugby.
-
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
Why the flying fuck do they persist with Beauden Barrett at First Five?
His game management is atrocious these days.
BB was actually quite good in first 60. But we need a closer rather than a joker for the difficult games.
It took BB about 7 minutes into the game to throw a loopy pass in his own in-goal, putting Proctor under immense pressure for zero possible gain.
He was shit.edit to add: then in the 8th minute, samisoni good counterruck, next runner a bit isolated and savea turnover, quick ball, mckenzie wide pass - to beauden with a 3 on 2. hates an overlap. decides to kick. decides that too late. partially charged. just horrible.
2nd edit: 14th minute, 3 men outside him with mckenzie hitting the line at pace, no SA defence, and the cover 10m back... BB hates an overlap, takes the tackle. this one was so bad that both commentators called him out on it.@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
Why the flying fuck do they persist with Beauden Barrett at First Five?
His game management is atrocious these days.
BB was actually quite good in first 60. But we need a closer rather than a joker for the difficult games.
It took BB about 7 minutes into the game to throw a loopy pass in his own in-goal, putting Proctor under immense pressure for zero possible gain.
He was shit.edit to add: then in the 8th minute, samisoni good counterruck, next runner a bit isolated and savea turnover, quick ball, mckenzie wide pass - to beauden with a 3 on 2. hates an overlap. decides to kick. decides that too late. partially charged. just horrible.
2nd edit: 14th minute, 3 men outside him with mckenzie hitting the line at pace, no SA defence, and the cover 10m back... BB hates an overlap, takes the tackle. this one was so bad that both commentators called him out on it.Yeah both incidents stood out. Genuine opportunities completely squandered.
I actually remember he did something similar against France in Paris last year.
Dmac made a great break, we went 60m up the field, the French defense completely on the backfoot.
Chance to get the winning try with only minutes remaining, BB gets quick ball, hesitates, hesitates again, and then passes late into Riekos face who knocks it on.
And we lose.
-
Honestly reading that from Jane is just so absolutely damning of this current coaching group. We KNEW they were going to bombard us, and not only did we not select for it, the guys on the park had shit technique! So nobody had even worked with them on the best way to handle that!
And then Razor just waves that away with vague references about it being in SAs DNA? Despite the ABs being world leaders in this regard in recent history?
Fuck me, move these clowns on ASAP, absolute embarrassment to AB rugby.
@No-Quarter he did say they had worked hard on it, but one assumes whatever they are doing, aint up to it.
-
@taniwharugby and based on the analysis by Jane, I don't believe him
-
@taniwharugby and based on the analysis by Jane, I don't believe him
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby and based on the analysis by Jane, I don't believe him
Maybe they did train on those things but the skills coach is not up to standard eg training with the wrong techniques.
-
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't think dominant tackles is necessarily the issue. The ABs lack real ball carriers. Someone to punch holes and bend the defensive line. All of Read, Collins and Kaino could hit a ball up with venom. Who are the bruising ball carriers in the AB team right now that teams need to commit a couple of tacklers in order to subdue?
Sami? Sititi last year. Clarke if he is selected. His knees are weapons.
Samisoni is one, though he hasn't been as explosive so far this year.
Sititi uses his footwork more than his brawn to breach the gain line.
Clarke is a good strike weapon, granted.
Is that it? Va'ai is lightweight as a carrier, Holland has potential, Patty T is missed, T Williams when on form can carry, as can Tosi. Jordie Barrett shows glimpses of it, but it isn't his strength. Ioane can carry well at 13. That is not enough IMO.
To compare, Boks have the following ball carriers in their team: Marx, Etzebeth/de Jager/Snyman, Kolisi, PSDT, Wiese, DDA/Esterhuizen, Hooker.
I know ABs play a different kind of game, but if you allow a team with that many ball carriers possession and momentum, you're going to be battered into submission.
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't think dominant tackles is necessarily the issue. The ABs lack real ball carriers. Someone to punch holes and bend the defensive line. All of Read, Collins and Kaino could hit a ball up with venom. Who are the bruising ball carriers in the AB team right now that teams need to commit a couple of tacklers in order to subdue?
Sami? Sititi last year. Clarke if he is selected. His knees are weapons.
Samisoni is one, though he hasn't been as explosive so far this year.
Sititi uses his footwork more than his brawn to breach the gain line.
Clarke is a good strike weapon, granted.
Is that it? Va'ai is lightweight as a carrier, Holland has potential, Patty T is missed, T Williams when on form can carry, as can Tosi. Jordie Barrett shows glimpses of it, but it isn't his strength. Ioane can carry well at 13. That is not enough IMO.
To compare, Boks have the following ball carriers in their team: Marx, Etzebeth/de Jager/Snyman, Kolisi, PSDT, Wiese, DDA/Esterhuizen, Hooker.
I know ABs play a different kind of game, but if you allow a team with that many ball carriers possession and momentum, you're going to be battered into submission.
Because we’re not selecting the larger enforcer type players.
Going off super rugby page stats, so give it take a kilo or two and a cm or two:
Height wise: only two of the in the top 10 tallest loose forwards have been selected (Va’ai and Parker, take out Va’ai, it’s one).Weight wise: three - Va’ai, Parker, Finau (and Finau is actually on the shorter side
can you list the 10 tallest
finau is 1.97 so wouldnt call him on shorter side.
im all for picking bigger loose forwards@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't think dominant tackles is necessarily the issue. The ABs lack real ball carriers. Someone to punch holes and bend the defensive line. All of Read, Collins and Kaino could hit a ball up with venom. Who are the bruising ball carriers in the AB team right now that teams need to commit a couple of tacklers in order to subdue?
Sami? Sititi last year. Clarke if he is selected. His knees are weapons.
Samisoni is one, though he hasn't been as explosive so far this year.
Sititi uses his footwork more than his brawn to breach the gain line.
Clarke is a good strike weapon, granted.
Is that it? Va'ai is lightweight as a carrier, Holland has potential, Patty T is missed, T Williams when on form can carry, as can Tosi. Jordie Barrett shows glimpses of it, but it isn't his strength. Ioane can carry well at 13. That is not enough IMO.
To compare, Boks have the following ball carriers in their team: Marx, Etzebeth/de Jager/Snyman, Kolisi, PSDT, Wiese, DDA/Esterhuizen, Hooker.
I know ABs play a different kind of game, but if you allow a team with that many ball carriers possession and momentum, you're going to be battered into submission.
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't think dominant tackles is necessarily the issue. The ABs lack real ball carriers. Someone to punch holes and bend the defensive line. All of Read, Collins and Kaino could hit a ball up with venom. Who are the bruising ball carriers in the AB team right now that teams need to commit a couple of tacklers in order to subdue?
Sami? Sititi last year. Clarke if he is selected. His knees are weapons.
Samisoni is one, though he hasn't been as explosive so far this year.
Sititi uses his footwork more than his brawn to breach the gain line.
Clarke is a good strike weapon, granted.
Is that it? Va'ai is lightweight as a carrier, Holland has potential, Patty T is missed, T Williams when on form can carry, as can Tosi. Jordie Barrett shows glimpses of it, but it isn't his strength. Ioane can carry well at 13. That is not enough IMO.
To compare, Boks have the following ball carriers in their team: Marx, Etzebeth/de Jager/Snyman, Kolisi, PSDT, Wiese, DDA/Esterhuizen, Hooker.
I know ABs play a different kind of game, but if you allow a team with that many ball carriers possession and momentum, you're going to be battered into submission.
Because we’re not selecting the larger enforcer type players.
Going off super rugby page stats, so give it take a kilo or two and a cm or two:
Height wise: only two of the in the top 10 tallest loose forwards have been selected (Va’ai and Parker, take out Va’ai, it’s one).Weight wise: three - Va’ai, Parker, Finau (and Finau is actually on the shorter side
can you list the 10 tallest
finau is 1.97 so wouldnt call him on shorter side.
im all for picking bigger loose forwardsSays Finau is 193cm on the ABs page.
Top 10 tallest:
Va’ai: 198
Parker:197
Delaney: 197
Haig: 197
Ah Khoi: 196
Saufua: 196
Saifolio: 195
Howden: 195
Wrampling: 194
Grace: 194Top 10 heaviest (weights to be taken with a grain of salt imo):
Saifoloi: 120
Va’ai: 118
Parker: 117
Ah Kuoi: 116
Saufua: 116
Finau: 115
Haig: 114
Delaney: 114
Wrampling: 114
Dalton: 113
Sititi: 113@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't think dominant tackles is necessarily the issue. The ABs lack real ball carriers. Someone to punch holes and bend the defensive line. All of Read, Collins and Kaino could hit a ball up with venom. Who are the bruising ball carriers in the AB team right now that teams need to commit a couple of tacklers in order to subdue?
Sami? Sititi last year. Clarke if he is selected. His knees are weapons.
Samisoni is one, though he hasn't been as explosive so far this year.
Sititi uses his footwork more than his brawn to breach the gain line.
Clarke is a good strike weapon, granted.
Is that it? Va'ai is lightweight as a carrier, Holland has potential, Patty T is missed, T Williams when on form can carry, as can Tosi. Jordie Barrett shows glimpses of it, but it isn't his strength. Ioane can carry well at 13. That is not enough IMO.
To compare, Boks have the following ball carriers in their team: Marx, Etzebeth/de Jager/Snyman, Kolisi, PSDT, Wiese, DDA/Esterhuizen, Hooker.
I know ABs play a different kind of game, but if you allow a team with that many ball carriers possession and momentum, you're going to be battered into submission.
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't think dominant tackles is necessarily the issue. The ABs lack real ball carriers. Someone to punch holes and bend the defensive line. All of Read, Collins and Kaino could hit a ball up with venom. Who are the bruising ball carriers in the AB team right now that teams need to commit a couple of tacklers in order to subdue?
Sami? Sititi last year. Clarke if he is selected. His knees are weapons.
Samisoni is one, though he hasn't been as explosive so far this year.
Sititi uses his footwork more than his brawn to breach the gain line.
Clarke is a good strike weapon, granted.
Is that it? Va'ai is lightweight as a carrier, Holland has potential, Patty T is missed, T Williams when on form can carry, as can Tosi. Jordie Barrett shows glimpses of it, but it isn't his strength. Ioane can carry well at 13. That is not enough IMO.
To compare, Boks have the following ball carriers in their team: Marx, Etzebeth/de Jager/Snyman, Kolisi, PSDT, Wiese, DDA/Esterhuizen, Hooker.
I know ABs play a different kind of game, but if you allow a team with that many ball carriers possession and momentum, you're going to be battered into submission.
Because we’re not selecting the larger enforcer type players.
Going off super rugby page stats, so give it take a kilo or two and a cm or two:
Height wise: only two of the in the top 10 tallest loose forwards have been selected (Va’ai and Parker, take out Va’ai, it’s one).Weight wise: three - Va’ai, Parker, Finau (and Finau is actually on the shorter side
can you list the 10 tallest
finau is 1.97 so wouldnt call him on shorter side.
im all for picking bigger loose forwards@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't think dominant tackles is necessarily the issue. The ABs lack real ball carriers. Someone to punch holes and bend the defensive line. All of Read, Collins and Kaino could hit a ball up with venom. Who are the bruising ball carriers in the AB team right now that teams need to commit a couple of tacklers in order to subdue?
Sami? Sititi last year. Clarke if he is selected. His knees are weapons.
Samisoni is one, though he hasn't been as explosive so far this year.
Sititi uses his footwork more than his brawn to breach the gain line.
Clarke is a good strike weapon, granted.
Is that it? Va'ai is lightweight as a carrier, Holland has potential, Patty T is missed, T Williams when on form can carry, as can Tosi. Jordie Barrett shows glimpses of it, but it isn't his strength. Ioane can carry well at 13. That is not enough IMO.
To compare, Boks have the following ball carriers in their team: Marx, Etzebeth/de Jager/Snyman, Kolisi, PSDT, Wiese, DDA/Esterhuizen, Hooker.
I know ABs play a different kind of game, but if you allow a team with that many ball carriers possession and momentum, you're going to be battered into submission.
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't think dominant tackles is necessarily the issue. The ABs lack real ball carriers. Someone to punch holes and bend the defensive line. All of Read, Collins and Kaino could hit a ball up with venom. Who are the bruising ball carriers in the AB team right now that teams need to commit a couple of tacklers in order to subdue?
Sami? Sititi last year. Clarke if he is selected. His knees are weapons.
Samisoni is one, though he hasn't been as explosive so far this year.
Sititi uses his footwork more than his brawn to breach the gain line.
Clarke is a good strike weapon, granted.
Is that it? Va'ai is lightweight as a carrier, Holland has potential, Patty T is missed, T Williams when on form can carry, as can Tosi. Jordie Barrett shows glimpses of it, but it isn't his strength. Ioane can carry well at 13. That is not enough IMO.
To compare, Boks have the following ball carriers in their team: Marx, Etzebeth/de Jager/Snyman, Kolisi, PSDT, Wiese, DDA/Esterhuizen, Hooker.
I know ABs play a different kind of game, but if you allow a team with that many ball carriers possession and momentum, you're going to be battered into submission.
Because we’re not selecting the larger enforcer type players.
Going off super rugby page stats, so give it take a kilo or two and a cm or two:
Height wise: only two of the in the top 10 tallest loose forwards have been selected (Va’ai and Parker, take out Va’ai, it’s one).Weight wise: three - Va’ai, Parker, Finau (and Finau is actually on the shorter side
can you list the 10 tallest
finau is 1.97 so wouldnt call him on shorter side.
im all for picking bigger loose forwardsSays Finau is 193cm on the ABs page.
Top 10 tallest:
Va’ai: 198
Parker:197
Delaney: 197
Haig: 197
Ah Khoi: 196
Saufua: 196
Saifolio: 195
Howden: 195
Wrampling: 194
Grace: 194Top 10 heaviest (weights to be taken with a grain of salt imo):
Saifoloi: 120
Va’ai: 118
Parker: 117
Ah Kuoi: 116
Saufua: 116
Finau: 115
Haig: 114
Delaney: 114
Wrampling: 114
Dalton: 113
Sititi: 113interesting list
mixture of guys playing lock ,injured most of the year or don't get starts for there teams
be great if we had these some of these guys getting starts mostly at 6 -
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby and based on the analysis by Jane, I don't believe him
Maybe they did train on those things but the skills coach is not up to standard eg training with the wrong techniques.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby and based on the analysis by Jane, I don't believe him
Maybe they did train on those things but the skills coach is not up to standard eg training with the wrong techniques.
They definitely worked on it but I suspect that the skills coach may be missing a bit about what Dagg and CJ were also talking about - replicating game like situations and the chaos that comes in those games.
-
Ok I read enough of Jane's explanations to think he'd make a useful AB skills coach.
@nostrildamus If you were to pick one guy in NZ to work on one skill….
-
Honestly reading that from Jane is just so absolutely damning of this current coaching group. We KNEW they were going to bombard us, and not only did we not select for it, the guys on the park had shit technique! So nobody had even worked with them on the best way to handle that!
And then Razor just waves that away with vague references about it being in SAs DNA? Despite the ABs being world leaders in this regard in recent history?
Fuck me, move these clowns on ASAP, absolute embarrassment to AB rugby.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
Honestly reading that from Jane is just so absolutely damning of this current coaching group. We KNEW they were going to bombard us, and not only did we not select for it, the guys on the park had shit technique! So nobody had even worked with them on the best way to handle that!
And then Razor just waves that away with vague references about it being in SAs DNA? Despite the ABs being world leaders in this regard in recent history?
Fuck me, move these clowns on ASAP, absolute embarrassment to AB rugby.
I’ve spoken to a few players who have been coached by Jane in the ABs XV and they all said how good he was and his technical knowledge was way ahead of anything they heard at NPC and super level
-
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
Who is the AB skills coach now? Hansen, Holland and Ellison don't inspire confidence.
There isn't a specific skills coach I believe, and hasn't been since Mick Byrne.
-
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
Who is the AB skills coach now? Hansen, Holland and Ellison don't inspire confidence.
There isn't a specific skills coach I believe, and hasn't been since Mick Byrne.
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
Who is the AB skills coach now? Hansen, Holland and Ellison don't inspire confidence.
There isn't a specific skills coach I believe, and hasn't been since Mick Byrne.
Just a bunch of guys who seemingly do similar things sort of, without clear defined roles. Typical middle management strategy
-
It does appear from the outside looking in razor has made a similar mistake to fozzy , surrounded himself with a bunch of assistants who are super rugby level and who don’t really cut it at international level .
It’s starting to feel very dejavu
-
It does appear from the outside looking in razor has made a similar mistake to fozzy , surrounded himself with a bunch of assistants who are super rugby level and who don’t really cut it at international level .
It’s starting to feel very dejavu
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2025:
It does appear from the outside looking in razor has made a similar mistake to fozzy , surrounded himself with a bunch of assistants who are super rugby level and who don’t really cut it at international level .
It’s starting to feel very dejavu
not quite. when foster got job there was a fight for assistant plus the timing meant some grabbed jobs elsewhere because there was no guarantee that foster was going to get job.
robertson got a free swing , appointed well in advance and could have anyone who he wanted (assuming they wanted to work with him) -
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2025:
It does appear from the outside looking in razor has made a similar mistake to fozzy , surrounded himself with a bunch of assistants who are super rugby level and who don’t really cut it at international level .
It’s starting to feel very dejavu
not quite. when foster got job there was a fight for assistant plus the timing meant some grabbed jobs elsewhere because there was no guarantee that foster was going to get job.
robertson got a free swing , appointed well in advance and could have anyone who he wanted (assuming they wanted to work with him)@ploughboy i thought others went elsewhere because the appointment of Foster seemed inevitable.
-
@taniwharugby was addressing assistants
