All Blacks 2025
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I think Ardie is a phenomenal athlete. And his highlight reel is freakish.
But he is not the Allblack captain for me.
He’s a swan diver, superman try scoring celebration, “this is my house”, silly dummy throwing player perfect for the tik tok age.
The chip and chases, the hungus lack of passing, the unnecessary leg drive at times that allows the opposition to get back into line because he wants to fight for a pyrrhic extra yard for brand Ardie.
I seen footage of him in the huddle after the game giving the post loss debrief. He always knows when the cameras are on and where they are.
His rallying cry at the end….?
“Sweet?” And then the players all chant “sweet”.
We carry on like the under 20’s.
They are not serious people.
Not in the way McCaw, Thorn, the Franks brothers, Hayman et al were.
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2025:
@Smuts said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders as a bok fan I hope your coaches keep looking for solutions at 10, 13 and even blindside for your lack of penetration and attacking fluency.
But here’s a mental experiment: you have to stop a single AB back line player one on one or you lose a nut. Who are you choosing?
We have a term for anybody who doesn’t choose most average Barrett: Billy Big Nut.
Swap him for any of the other 2nd/5s in the Championship and your 10s and 13s will suddenly find themselves with far more space.
I agree, I genuinely think the ABs have been held hostage for the last decade by the Barret brothers.
Scott should not be captain or starting yet he is.
Beauden should not be the starting 10 or possibly in the 23 yet he is.
Jordie might be the worst..in the sense he's kinda like an asymptomatic illness. He has the best form of the 3, probably has the best shout of being a starter out of all 3, and he's actually a great player in general...but his specific play style and skillset at 12 is a MASSIVE hindrance to the entire AB attack.
He is not agile, not really quick of hand, not an amazing passer, and doesn't have the first instinct to create space for others but rather to take contact.
It just reminds me of the Wallabies 15+ years ago, when I would just sit back and feel extremely happy seeing Reece Hodge against us, such a limited predictable player, and wondering how he kept starting for Australia over genuinely terrifying alternative options like Berrick Barnes.
So I'm happy you brought this up, because I've always pondered that there must be so many Bok/Wallaby fans extremely elated and astounded to see the ABs continue with BB/Jordie/Rieko, and just sit back cautiously riding out this wave as long as possible before the jig is up.
I think that is a tad unfair on Jordie, who I think has been the best brother of the three this season, by quite some margin.
On Saturday he was the player with the most touches/involvements in the try - 4.
First, he gets across the gainline initially having spun out of a tackle and taking two defenders to bring him down. Then when the ball swings back to De groot it's gets spilled and Jordie cleans it up and passes out of pressure because the bok prop (Ox) is bearing down on him. Then the third time he touches it he gets man and ball (Kolisi) and gets the ball away. Lastly, he steps in at halfback in the final sequence.
So his overall involvement was a carry over the gainline, two passes to the left, one to the right, both the passes in midfield were made with a bok right in his face.
Jordie saved their bacon with the try saver on Kolbe and he was the player that ran the full length of the pitch on the try intercept that stopped Kolbe going under the posts so that the conversion could be as hard as possible. Whatever his faults I never doubt Jordies integrity and his commitment to the ABs. He doesn't give up on any play.
I just don't see him as the liability that others do. I think Scott has the worst form of all the locks that have played this year and for every good thing BB does he does 3 or 4 pointless things.
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
who I think has been the best brother of the three this season, by quite some margin.
Easily.
But it's not a high bar these days .... (Can piss off the Cantabs, the Aucklanders, the Naki and Canes fans all in one sentence?
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Anyone seen the latest Facebook post on the ABs page of savea talking about Kolisi? Bit too much love thy neighbour. Vomit inducing
Infuriating.
It winds me right up.
Keane and Viera had nothing good to say about each other until the career was over.
And thats the way it should be.
How can you go into battle against a fella who is hugging your children on the regular.
Yeah they should watch some Mike Tyson videos and threaten to eat each others children, not hug them.
Save all that shit for when they’re retired.
Id be friends with no one until career over.
One thing I noticed this younger generation just don't have that same intensity and edge like the older ones.
Its even down to stuff like I heard Cully said the old schoolers like Zinny and Fitzy really would not give the newbies like him the time of day until they had established themselves.
In both the Buenos Aries loss and the Wellington one this year you can see moments where players are getting to an extent bullied and there's not really a reaction. Its like the abs now are overly concerned with being nice.
It wouldn't matter if they were winning all the time but it's evident teams neither respect nor fear the abs right now and I don't think prior generations would stand for that the way the 2025 crop are.
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
One thing I noticed this younger generation just don't have that same intensity and edge like the older ones.
Its even down to stuff like I heard Cully said the old schoolers like Zinny and Fitzy really would not give the newbies like him the time of day until they had established themselves.
That type of shit got rightfully punted eventually during the Henry era, and it contributed to one of the most dominant AB eras ever.
I think we're over analysing this a bit now. We're just a but shit, our coaches are shit, whether players are mates off field with the opposition, or whether there's an 80s style hierarchy doesn't matter.
We can't even do the basics right, we can't catch, we don't kick for territory even though we have a couple of guys who can get distance, we appear mot to have a defensive coach ...
I'm hoping Razor can turn it around and it's just taken him this long to adjust to this level.
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
One thing I noticed this younger generation just don't have that same intensity and edge like the older ones.
Its even down to stuff like I heard Cully said the old schoolers like Zinny and Fitzy really would not give the newbies like him the time of day until they had established themselves.
That type of shit got rightfully punted eventually during the Henry era, and it contributed to one of the most dominant AB eras ever.
I think we're over analysing this a bit now. We're just a but shit, our coaches are shit, whether players are mates off field with the opposition, or whether there's an 80s style hierarchy doesn't matter.
We can't even do the basics right, we can't catch, we don't kick for territory even though we have a couple of guys who can get distance, we appear mot to have a defensive coach ...
I'm hoping Razor can turn it around and it's just taken him this long to adjust to this level.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
One thing I noticed this younger generation just don't have that same intensity and edge like the older ones.
Its even down to stuff like I heard Cully said the old schoolers like Zinny and Fitzy really would not give the newbies like him the time of day until they had established themselves.
That type of shit got rightfully punted eventually during the Henry era, and it contributed to one of the most dominant AB eras ever.
I think we're over analysing this a bit now. We're just a but shit, our coaches are shit, whether players are mates off field with the opposition, or whether there's an 80s style hierarchy doesn't matter.
We can't even do the basics right, we can't catch, we don't kick for territory even though we have a couple of guys who can get distance, we appear mot to have a defensive coach ...
I'm hoping Razor can turn it around and it's just taken him this long to adjust to this level.
Maybe we shouldn’t be hitting each other with pool noodles when we are doing catch practise.
They should be putting up kicks and having Jordan, Love Beaudy, DMAC and the wingers smashing into each other trying to catch it.
We don’t need an 80’s hierarchy but we need lads to be pulled after 30 40 mins if having a stinker, or dropped altogether.
THIS IS THE ALLBLACKS.
If the lads are performing shit 2 games in a row get them gone. Have them sit in the cheap seats and ruminate on what they have to do to get back in the team.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
One thing I noticed this younger generation just don't have that same intensity and edge like the older ones.
Its even down to stuff like I heard Cully said the old schoolers like Zinny and Fitzy really would not give the newbies like him the time of day until they had established themselves.
That type of shit got rightfully punted eventually during the Henry era, and it contributed to one of the most dominant AB eras ever.
I think we're over analysing this a bit now. We're just a but shit, our coaches are shit, whether players are mates off field with the opposition, or whether there's an 80s style hierarchy doesn't matter.
We can't even do the basics right, we can't catch, we don't kick for territory even though we have a couple of guys who can get distance, we appear mot to have a defensive coach ...
I'm hoping Razor can turn it around and it's just taken him this long to adjust to this level.
Maybe we shouldn’t be hitting each other with pool noodles when we are doing catch practise.
They should be putting up kicks and having Jordan, Love Beaudy, DMAC and the wingers smashing into each other trying to catch it.
We don’t need an 80’s hierarchy but we need lads to be pulled after 30 40 mins if having a stinker, or dropped altogether.
THIS IS THE ALLBLACKS.
If the lads are performing shit 2 games in a row get them gone. Have them sit in the cheap seats and ruminate on what they have to do to get back in the team.
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Pele
173cm tall
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
Pele
173cm tallThat's freakish from Pele - one of the greatest athletes of all time.
All things being equal outside backs are on a similar level of explosiveness in terms of pace/standing jump so you could maybe assume that someone who is 190cm vs 170cm is going to be able to get their hands higher.
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
One thing I noticed this younger generation just don't have that same intensity and edge like the older ones.
Its even down to stuff like I heard Cully said the old schoolers like Zinny and Fitzy really would not give the newbies like him the time of day until they had established themselves.
That type of shit got rightfully punted eventually during the Henry era, and it contributed to one of the most dominant AB eras ever.
I think we're over analysing this a bit now. We're just a but shit, our coaches are shit, whether players are mates off field with the opposition, or whether there's an 80s style hierarchy doesn't matter.
We can't even do the basics right, we can't catch, we don't kick for territory even though we have a couple of guys who can get distance, we appear mot to have a defensive coach ...
I'm hoping Razor can turn it around and it's just taken him this long to adjust to this level.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
One thing I noticed this younger generation just don't have that same intensity and edge like the older ones.
Its even down to stuff like I heard Cully said the old schoolers like Zinny and Fitzy really would not give the newbies like him the time of day until they had established themselves.
That type of shit got rightfully punted eventually during the Henry era, and it contributed to one of the most dominant AB eras ever.
I think we're over analysing this a bit now. We're just a but shit, our coaches are shit, whether players are mates off field with the opposition, or whether there's an 80s style hierarchy doesn't matter.
We can't even do the basics right, we can't catch, we don't kick for territory even though we have a couple of guys who can get distance, we appear mot to have a defensive coach ...
I'm hoping Razor can turn it around and it's just taken him this long to adjust to this level.
I agree with all you've said except I don't have the same hope as you in the last sentence. For things to change I think he will need to replace some of his coaching staff like Foster did. Some of them just aren't up to it.
Also the ignoring/shunning of Blues players just doesn't add up and something seems to be off there. Similar sort of thing seems to be happening to when Mains was in charge. The coaching staff seem to have a bit of a chip or their heads up their arses.
Apart from Tuipulotu they've ignored the Blues best players and now have the likes of BB and Christie in the team. Many Blues fans would argue that those two are what have held the Blues back.
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bold of you to suggest we will make another RWC final
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
One thing I noticed this younger generation just don't have that same intensity and edge like the older ones.
Its even down to stuff like I heard Cully said the old schoolers like Zinny and Fitzy really would not give the newbies like him the time of day until they had established themselves.
That type of shit got rightfully punted eventually during the Henry era, and it contributed to one of the most dominant AB eras ever.
I think we're over analysing this a bit now. We're just a but shit, our coaches are shit, whether players are mates off field with the opposition, or whether there's an 80s style hierarchy doesn't matter.
We can't even do the basics right, we can't catch, we don't kick for territory even though we have a couple of guys who can get distance, we appear mot to have a defensive coach ...
I'm hoping Razor can turn it around and it's just taken him this long to adjust to this level.
I agree with all you've said except I don't have the same hope as you in the last sentence. For things to change I think he will need to replace some of his coaching staff like Foster did. Some of them just aren't up to it.
Also the ignoring/shunning of Blues players just doesn't add up and something seems to be off there. Similar sort of thing seems to be happening to when Mains was in charge. The coaching staff seem to have a bit of a chip or their heads up their arses.
Apart from Tuipulotu they've ignored the Blues best players and now have the likes of BB and Christie in the team. Many Blues fans would argue that those two are what have held the Blues back.
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
but we need lads to be pulled after 30 40 mins if having a stinker,
We'd be playing 7s after 30 minutes then.
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@Nepia what about cards?
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia what about cards?
Ah fuck, we'll be playing 7 aside but with only 6 on the field.
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
One thing I noticed this younger generation just don't have that same intensity and edge like the older ones.
Its even down to stuff like I heard Cully said the old schoolers like Zinny and Fitzy really would not give the newbies like him the time of day until they had established themselves.
That type of shit got rightfully punted eventually during the Henry era, and it contributed to one of the most dominant AB eras ever.
I think we're over analysing this a bit now. We're just a but shit, our coaches are shit, whether players are mates off field with the opposition, or whether there's an 80s style hierarchy doesn't matter.
We can't even do the basics right, we can't catch, we don't kick for territory even though we have a couple of guys who can get distance, we appear mot to have a defensive coach ...
I'm hoping Razor can turn it around and it's just taken him this long to adjust to this level.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
One thing I noticed this younger generation just don't have that same intensity and edge like the older ones.
Its even down to stuff like I heard Cully said the old schoolers like Zinny and Fitzy really would not give the newbies like him the time of day until they had established themselves.
That type of shit got rightfully punted eventually during the Henry era, and it contributed to one of the most dominant AB eras ever.
I think we're over analysing this a bit now. We're just a but shit, our coaches are shit, whether players are mates off field with the opposition, or whether there's an 80s style hierarchy doesn't matter.
We can't even do the basics right, we can't catch, we don't kick for territory even though we have a couple of guys who can get distance, we appear mot to have a defensive coach ...
I'm hoping Razor can turn it around and it's just taken him this long to adjust to this level.
No worries - just needs to fix up the attack, the defense, the set piece, the selection, the leadership and the coaching......
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
One thing I noticed this younger generation just don't have that same intensity and edge like the older ones.
Its even down to stuff like I heard Cully said the old schoolers like Zinny and Fitzy really would not give the newbies like him the time of day until they had established themselves.
That type of shit got rightfully punted eventually during the Henry era, and it contributed to one of the most dominant AB eras ever.
I think we're over analysing this a bit now. We're just a but shit, our coaches are shit, whether players are mates off field with the opposition, or whether there's an 80s style hierarchy doesn't matter.
We can't even do the basics right, we can't catch, we don't kick for territory even though we have a couple of guys who can get distance, we appear mot to have a defensive coach ...
I'm hoping Razor can turn it around and it's just taken him this long to adjust to this level.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
I think we're over analysing this a bit now. We're just a but shit, our coaches are shit, whether players are mates off field with the opposition, or whether there's an 80s style hierarchy doesn't matter.
It's extraordinary.
No-one has got a stupid haircut that I can think of - and yet we still can't win?
On reflection it may be the coaches'haircuts that are the problem?
And white boots! Actually, white boots annoy me, because they're playing with a white ball and my eyes aren't as sharp as they used to be. Get some green fluoro boots you fluffybunnies!
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
I think we're over analysing this a bit now. We're just a but shit, our coaches are shit, whether players are mates off field with the opposition, or whether there's an 80s style hierarchy doesn't matter.
It's extraordinary.
No-one has got a stupid haircut that I can think of - and yet we still can't win?
On reflection it may be the coaches'haircuts that are the problem?
And white boots! Actually, white boots annoy me, because they're playing with a white ball and my eyes aren't as sharp as they used to be. Get some green fluoro boots you fluffybunnies!
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
Get some green fluoro boots you fluffybunnies!
my son, who is an olympic level hater anyway, haaates the fact they all wear the same boot. have some individuality he reckons.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
One thing I noticed this younger generation just don't have that same intensity and edge like the older ones.
Its even down to stuff like I heard Cully said the old schoolers like Zinny and Fitzy really would not give the newbies like him the time of day until they had established themselves.
That type of shit got rightfully punted eventually during the Henry era, and it contributed to one of the most dominant AB eras ever.
I think we're over analysing this a bit now. We're just a but shit, our coaches are shit, whether players are mates off field with the opposition, or whether there's an 80s style hierarchy doesn't matter.
We can't even do the basics right, we can't catch, we don't kick for territory even though we have a couple of guys who can get distance, we appear mot to have a defensive coach ...
I'm hoping Razor can turn it around and it's just taken him this long to adjust to this level.
No worries - just needs to fix up the attack, the defense, the set piece, the selection, the leadership and the coaching......
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
One thing I noticed this younger generation just don't have that same intensity and edge like the older ones.
Its even down to stuff like I heard Cully said the old schoolers like Zinny and Fitzy really would not give the newbies like him the time of day until they had established themselves.
That type of shit got rightfully punted eventually during the Henry era, and it contributed to one of the most dominant AB eras ever.
I think we're over analysing this a bit now. We're just a but shit, our coaches are shit, whether players are mates off field with the opposition, or whether there's an 80s style hierarchy doesn't matter.
We can't even do the basics right, we can't catch, we don't kick for territory even though we have a couple of guys who can get distance, we appear mot to have a defensive coach ...
I'm hoping Razor can turn it around and it's just taken him this long to adjust to this level.
No worries - just needs to fix up the attack, the defense, the set piece, the selection, the leadership and the coaching......
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
I think we're over analysing this a bit now. We're just a but shit, our coaches are shit, whether players are mates off field with the opposition, or whether there's an 80s style hierarchy doesn't matter.
It's extraordinary.
No-one has got a stupid haircut that I can think of - and yet we still can't win?
On reflection it may be the coaches'haircuts that are the problem?
And white boots! Actually, white boots annoy me, because they're playing with a white ball and my eyes aren't as sharp as they used to be. Get some green fluoro boots you fluffybunnies!
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
No-one has got a stupid haircut that I can think of
Yep, the coach is the only one allowed a stupid haircut.
Also explains why Fakatava isn't there.
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This video helps confirm what I suspected
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This video helps confirm what I suspected
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2025:
@Smuts said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders as a bok fan I hope your coaches keep looking for solutions at 10, 13 and even blindside for your lack of penetration and attacking fluency.
But here’s a mental experiment: you have to stop a single AB back line player one on one or you lose a nut. Who are you choosing?
We have a term for anybody who doesn’t choose most average Barrett: Billy Big Nut.
Swap him for any of the other 2nd/5s in the Championship and your 10s and 13s will suddenly find themselves with far more space.
I agree, I genuinely think the ABs have been held hostage for the last decade by the Barret brothers.
Scott should not be captain or starting yet he is.
Beauden should not be the starting 10 or possibly in the 23 yet he is.
Jordie might be the worst..in the sense he's kinda like an asymptomatic illness. He has the best form of the 3, probably has the best shout of being a starter out of all 3, and he's actually a great player in general...but his specific play style and skillset at 12 is a MASSIVE hindrance to the entire AB attack.
He is not agile, not really quick of hand, not an amazing passer, and doesn't have the first instinct to create space for others but rather to take contact.
It just reminds me of the Wallabies 15+ years ago, when I would just sit back and feel extremely happy seeing Reece Hodge against us, such a limited predictable player, and wondering how he kept starting for Australia over genuinely terrifying alternative options like Berrick Barnes.
So I'm happy you brought this up, because I've always pondered that there must be so many Bok/Wallaby fans extremely elated and astounded to see the ABs continue with BB/Jordie/Rieko, and just sit back cautiously riding out this wave as long as possible before the jig is up.
I think that is a tad unfair on Jordie, who I think has been the best brother of the three this season, by quite some margin.
On Saturday he was the player with the most touches/involvements in the try - 4.
First, he gets across the gainline initially having spun out of a tackle and taking two defenders to bring him down. Then when the ball swings back to De groot it's gets spilled and Jordie cleans it up and passes out of pressure because the bok prop (Ox) is bearing down on him. Then the third time he touches it he gets man and ball (Kolisi) and gets the ball away. Lastly, he steps in at halfback in the final sequence.
So his overall involvement was a carry over the gainline, two passes to the left, one to the right, both the passes in midfield were made with a bok right in his face.
Jordie saved their bacon with the try saver on Kolbe and he was the player that ran the full length of the pitch on the try intercept that stopped Kolbe going under the posts so that the conversion could be as hard as possible. Whatever his faults I never doubt Jordies integrity and his commitment to the ABs. He doesn't give up on any play.
I just don't see him as the liability that others do. I think Scott has the worst form of all the locks that have played this year and for every good thing BB does he does 3 or 4 pointless things.
I agree Jordie is easily the best Barret and most deserving of a starting role.
It's more the circumstance of his specific skillset and playstyle at the 12 position may end up being the biggest bottleneck for the AB attack.
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2025:
It's more the circumstance of his specific skillset and playstyle at the 12 position may end up being the biggest bottleneck for the AB attack.
The problem is that no 12 has consistently performed to a high level
a. outside Christie and BB
b. with these coaches.Jordie has, overseas. What was Leicester doing so well with him that we can't?
