All Blacks 2025
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
I don’t think there’s any question that Robertson was the right appointment. NZR handled the process poorly, however. Ideally, Robertson should have been surrounded by other top-level coaches, not just his mates. And while he deserved the job, that doesn’t guarantee he’s up to it. He still has time to turn things around, but at this stage it looks far from promising.
I think Joe Schmidt would have been a better option. Presumably he was available as a head coach of an international side given he has been the head coach of an international side since 2024.
Probably he could have made it work since half the games are in NZ.
My recollection is that Schmidt signalled limited interest in the top job at the time. He was appointed Wallabies head coach nine months after Robertson was given the All Blacks job.
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
I don’t think there’s any question that Robertson was the right appointment. NZR handled the process poorly, however. Ideally, Robertson should have been surrounded by other top-level coaches, not just his mates. And while he deserved the job, that doesn’t guarantee he’s up to it. He still has time to turn things around, but at this stage it looks far from promising.
I think Joe Schmidt would have been a better option. Presumably he was available as a head coach of an international side given he has been the head coach of an international side since 2024.
Probably he could have made it work since half the games are in NZ.
My recollection is that Schmidt signalled limited interest in the top job at the time. He was appointed Wallabies head coach nine months after Robertson was given the All Blacks job.
He lost interest after being pissed with Robertson getting AB job so early.
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@Kirwan sheesh, I posted that a couple of weeks back
Scarily alike huh, think he is pretty quick too, I saw some chatter in the socials about him being eligible for Ireland as well, be interesting to see his progress.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Kirwan sheesh, I posted that a couple of weeks back
Scarily alike huh, think he is pretty quick too, I saw some chatter in the socials about him being eligible for Ireland as well, be interesting to see his progress.
Way behind in my Ferning, too much work
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2025:
But it isn’t and his coaching comes under the microscope more and more if we aren’t dominating, like people were expecting when the messiah takes over .
Next 2 weeks will tell if it's a "Big Hat, No Cattle" situation
Im expecting we will hold onto the bledisloe but not be overly convincing doing it , so much of the same .
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2025:
But it isn’t and his coaching comes under the microscope more and more if we aren’t dominating, like people were expecting when the messiah takes over .
Next 2 weeks will tell if it's a "Big Hat, No Cattle" situation
Im expecting we will hold onto the bledisloe but not be overly convincing doing it , so much of the same .
There is another 3 losses coming in the calendar year for sure. And I don’t think that’s acceptable whatever way you dress it up.
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2025:
Solution is clearing clone good players instead of picking mediocre Cantabs and Chiefs.
How good that they are both wearing the classic style predators as well with the big tongue
@DurryMexted said in All Blacks 2025:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2025:
Solution is clearing clone good players instead of picking mediocre Cantabs and Chiefs.
How good that they are both wearing the classic style predators as well with the big tongue
There has never been a boot as good as the predator accelerator.
I’ll die on that hill.
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I think the coaching at international level argument is valid but not particularly applicable to Razor in this instance.
He is getting plenty wrong at the selection table before he even coaches them.He got his coaching team wrong too by virtue of the fact Leon left so early into his tenure.
Before we even talk about tactics, has he picked the right assistants and has he picked the right captain and players?
I’d say it’s a clear and resounding no, before a ball has been kicked in the training paddock.
I can’t think of any turds he has polished either.
Nobody has improved under him.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
I don’t think there’s any question that Robertson was the right appointment. NZR handled the process poorly, however. Ideally, Robertson should have been surrounded by other top-level coaches, not just his mates. And while he deserved the job, that doesn’t guarantee he’s up to it. He still has time to turn things around, but at this stage it looks far from promising.
I think Joe Schmidt would have been a better option. Presumably he was available as a head coach of an international side given he has been the head coach of an international side since 2024.
Probably he could have made it work since half the games are in NZ.
My recollection is that Schmidt signalled limited interest in the top job at the time. He was appointed Wallabies head coach nine months after Robertson was given the All Blacks job.
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
I don’t think there’s any question that Robertson was the right appointment. NZR handled the process poorly, however. Ideally, Robertson should have been surrounded by other top-level coaches, not just his mates. And while he deserved the job, that doesn’t guarantee he’s up to it. He still has time to turn things around, but at this stage it looks far from promising.
I think Joe Schmidt would have been a better option. Presumably he was available as a head coach of an international side given he has been the head coach of an international side since 2024.
Probably he could have made it work since half the games are in NZ.
My recollection is that Schmidt signalled limited interest in the top job at the time. He was appointed Wallabies head coach nine months after Robertson was given the All Blacks job.
As Dan mentioned he didn't want to work with Razor who was basically guaranteed the job as head coach.
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I think with Razor it's just as much as lack of diverse coaching experience as being the problem.
He's coached Canterbury and the Crusaders.
His coaching network is small - and even some of those he has had a falling out with (Leon MacDonald).
Therefore you end up with a weak coaching staff.
Foster had a similar issue in his tenure but was luckily able to pivot to Ryan and Schmidt.
Based on the evidence I question how much goodwill Razor has in coaching circles.
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Not sure if this has already been posted, but a couple of quotes from Holland in the Herald article by Superman:
Among the areas highlighted by the review, Holland said that how the side were using possession needed to be addressed.
“There’s a couple of things we’re working away at. I touched on our possession and what we’re doing with our ball. There’s times, especially in the South African game and it has happened earlier on, where we give the ball back to the opposition when we don’t need to,” the coach said.
“Whether it’s a kick too often or whether that’s losing the battle in the air, as we know, there are a couple of key things that we feel the pressure is released from the opposition and we feel like that’s where we can really go hard on things.”Well, fuck me, come on down Sherlock Holmes. They are promising comments at least, but I'll believe it when I see it.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
I don’t think there’s any question that Robertson was the right appointment. NZR handled the process poorly, however. Ideally, Robertson should have been surrounded by other top-level coaches, not just his mates. And while he deserved the job, that doesn’t guarantee he’s up to it. He still has time to turn things around, but at this stage it looks far from promising.
I think Joe Schmidt would have been a better option. Presumably he was available as a head coach of an international side given he has been the head coach of an international side since 2024.
Probably he could have made it work since half the games are in NZ.
My recollection is that Schmidt signalled limited interest in the top job at the time. He was appointed Wallabies head coach nine months after Robertson was given the All Blacks job.
As Dan mentioned he didn't want to work with Razor who was basically guaranteed the job as head coach.
@brodean and I think that was also addressed earlier, the process was a big part of the problem with several potential candidates either not applying or ruling themselves out as they felt the decision had already been made.
I have no issues with Razor getting the job, if he was an amazing regional manager applying for the national manger job in a business, I doubt they tell him to go work for the opposition for a while and then come back when another role opens up in 2-4 years depending on their success.
What is an issue, is NZR have given him the full 4 years, one woudl hope this included a review after 18 months, 2 years or so, with an option to terminate if performance was not up to scratch, but despite having the opportunity to learn from those sort of mistakes they made with Foster, I expect the contract he has is 4 years come what may.
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Not sure if this has already been posted, but a couple of quotes from Holland in the Herald article by Superman:
Among the areas highlighted by the review, Holland said that how the side were using possession needed to be addressed.
“There’s a couple of things we’re working away at. I touched on our possession and what we’re doing with our ball. There’s times, especially in the South African game and it has happened earlier on, where we give the ball back to the opposition when we don’t need to,” the coach said.
“Whether it’s a kick too often or whether that’s losing the battle in the air, as we know, there are a couple of key things that we feel the pressure is released from the opposition and we feel like that’s where we can really go hard on things.”Well, fuck me, come on down Sherlock Holmes. They are promising comments at least, but I'll believe it when I see it.
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
Not sure if this has already been posted, but a couple of quotes from Holland in the Herald article by Superman:
Among the areas highlighted by the review, Holland said that how the side were using possession needed to be addressed.
“There’s a couple of things we’re working away at. I touched on our possession and what we’re doing with our ball. There’s times, especially in the South African game and it has happened earlier on, where we give the ball back to the opposition when we don’t need to,” the coach said.
“Whether it’s a kick too often or whether that’s losing the battle in the air, as we know, there are a couple of key things that we feel the pressure is released from the opposition and we feel like that’s where we can really go hard on things.”Well, fuck me, come on down Sherlock Holmes. They are promising comments at least, but I'll believe it when I see it.
I could have told them that 10 tests ago after 8 pints.
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@brodean and I think that was also addressed earlier, the process was a big part of the problem with several potential candidates either not applying or ruling themselves out as they felt the decision had already been made.
I have no issues with Razor getting the job, if he was an amazing regional manager applying for the national manger job in a business, I doubt they tell him to go work for the opposition for a while and then come back when another role opens up in 2-4 years depending on their success.
What is an issue, is NZR have given him the full 4 years, one woudl hope this included a review after 18 months, 2 years or so, with an option to terminate if performance was not up to scratch, but despite having the opportunity to learn from those sort of mistakes they made with Foster, I expect the contract he has is 4 years come what may.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean and I think that was also addressed earlier, the process was a big part of the problem with several potential candidates either not applying or ruling themselves out as they felt the decision had already been made.
I have no issues with Razor getting the job, if he was an amazing regional manager applying for the national manger job in a business, I doubt they tell him to go work for the opposition for a while and then come back when another role opens up in 2-4 years depending on their success.
What is an issue, is NZR have given him the full 4 years, one woudl hope this included a review after 18 months, 2 years or so, with an option to terminate if performance was not up to scratch, but despite having the opportunity to learn from those sort of mistakes they made with Foster, I expect the contract he has is 4 years come what may.
He definitely deserved the gig, he was the outstanding candidate at the time (Schmidts familial issues in mind) but he also now deserves to be fired.
Thats the issue.
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I think with Razor it's just as much as lack of diverse coaching experience as being the problem.
He's coached Canterbury and the Crusaders.
His coaching network is small - and even some of those he has had a falling out with (Leon MacDonald).
Therefore you end up with a weak coaching staff.
Foster had a similar issue in his tenure but was luckily able to pivot to Ryan and Schmidt.
Based on the evidence I question how much goodwill Razor has in coaching circles.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
I think with Razor it's just as much as lack of diverse coaching experience as being the problem.
He's coached Canterbury and the Crusaders.
His coaching network is small - and even some of those he has had a falling out with (Leon MacDonald).
Therefore you end up with a weak coaching staff.
Foster had a similar issue in his tenure but was luckily able to pivot to Ryan and Schmidt.
Based on the evidence I question how much goodwill Razor has in coaching circles.
Yeah, he never did it outside of one particular city/province who also were the teams he played for.
Also, a guy like Steve Hansen has tons of life experience outside of rugby what with working in the meat industry and being in the police force, has Razor got much life experience out of the confines of professional rugby?..
He just seems like a one dimensional.candidate and does not have a broad array of professional and management experience to draw from.
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@brodean and I think that was also addressed earlier, the process was a big part of the problem with several potential candidates either not applying or ruling themselves out as they felt the decision had already been made.
I have no issues with Razor getting the job, if he was an amazing regional manager applying for the national manger job in a business, I doubt they tell him to go work for the opposition for a while and then come back when another role opens up in 2-4 years depending on their success.
What is an issue, is NZR have given him the full 4 years, one woudl hope this included a review after 18 months, 2 years or so, with an option to terminate if performance was not up to scratch, but despite having the opportunity to learn from those sort of mistakes they made with Foster, I expect the contract he has is 4 years come what may.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean and I think that was also addressed earlier, the process was a big part of the problem with several potential candidates either not applying or ruling themselves out as they felt the decision had already been made.
I have no issues with Razor getting the job, if he was an amazing regional manager applying for the national manger job in a business, I doubt they tell him to go work for the opposition for a while and then come back when another role opens up in 2-4 years depending on their success.
What is an issue, is NZR have given him the full 4 years, one woudl hope this included a review after 18 months, 2 years or so, with an option to terminate if performance was not up to scratch, but despite having the opportunity to learn from those sort of mistakes they made with Foster, I expect the contract he has is 4 years come what may.
Given that, and this goal of his to win two World Cups with different teams, I would have expected him to be significantly less conservative in his approach and less afraid of losing in his first two years. He also could have used the goal of winning the World Cup to buy himself some forgiveness when things didn't go so well.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
I don’t think there’s any question that Robertson was the right appointment. NZR handled the process poorly, however. Ideally, Robertson should have been surrounded by other top-level coaches, not just his mates. And while he deserved the job, that doesn’t guarantee he’s up to it. He still has time to turn things around, but at this stage it looks far from promising.
I think Joe Schmidt would have been a better option. Presumably he was available as a head coach of an international side given he has been the head coach of an international side since 2024.
Probably he could have made it work since half the games are in NZ.
My recollection is that Schmidt signalled limited interest in the top job at the time. He was appointed Wallabies head coach nine months after Robertson was given the All Blacks job.
As Dan mentioned he didn't want to work with Razor who was basically guaranteed the job as head coach.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
I don’t think there’s any question that Robertson was the right appointment. NZR handled the process poorly, however. Ideally, Robertson should have been surrounded by other top-level coaches, not just his mates. And while he deserved the job, that doesn’t guarantee he’s up to it. He still has time to turn things around, but at this stage it looks far from promising.
I think Joe Schmidt would have been a better option. Presumably he was available as a head coach of an international side given he has been the head coach of an international side since 2024.
Probably he could have made it work since half the games are in NZ.
My recollection is that Schmidt signalled limited interest in the top job at the time. He was appointed Wallabies head coach nine months after Robertson was given the All Blacks job.
As Dan mentioned he didn't want to work with Razor who was basically guaranteed the job as head coach.
He was pissed at how the board treated Fozz wasn't he?
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
I think with Razor it's just as much as lack of diverse coaching experience as being the problem.
He's coached Canterbury and the Crusaders.
His coaching network is small - and even some of those he has had a falling out with (Leon MacDonald).
Therefore you end up with a weak coaching staff.
Foster had a similar issue in his tenure but was luckily able to pivot to Ryan and Schmidt.
Based on the evidence I question how much goodwill Razor has in coaching circles.
Yeah, he never did it outside of one particular city/province who also were the teams he played for.
Also, a guy like Steve Hansen has tons of life experience outside of rugby what with working in the meat industry and being in the police force, has Razor got much life experience out of the confines of professional rugby?..
He just seems like a one dimensional.candidate and does not have a broad array of professional and management experience to draw from.
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
I think with Razor it's just as much as lack of diverse coaching experience as being the problem.
He's coached Canterbury and the Crusaders.
His coaching network is small - and even some of those he has had a falling out with (Leon MacDonald).
Therefore you end up with a weak coaching staff.
Foster had a similar issue in his tenure but was luckily able to pivot to Ryan and Schmidt.
Based on the evidence I question how much goodwill Razor has in coaching circles.
Yeah, he never did it outside of one particular city/province who also were the teams he played for.
> Also, a guy like Steve Hansen has tons of life experience outside of rugby what with working in the meat industry and being in the police force, has Razor got much life experience out of the confines of professional rugby?..
He just seems like a one dimensional.candidate and does not have a broad array of professional and management experience to draw from.
That is becoming less and less of a factor as coaches get younger. Razor has probably done nothing but get paid to play and then coach Rugby.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean and I think that was also addressed earlier, the process was a big part of the problem with several potential candidates either not applying or ruling themselves out as they felt the decision had already been made.
I have no issues with Razor getting the job, if he was an amazing regional manager applying for the national manger job in a business, I doubt they tell him to go work for the opposition for a while and then come back when another role opens up in 2-4 years depending on their success.
What is an issue, is NZR have given him the full 4 years, one woudl hope this included a review after 18 months, 2 years or so, with an option to terminate if performance was not up to scratch, but despite having the opportunity to learn from those sort of mistakes they made with Foster, I expect the contract he has is 4 years come what may.
Given that, and this goal of his to win two World Cups with different teams, I would have expected him to be significantly less conservative in his approach and less afraid of losing in his first two years. He also could have used the goal of winning the World Cup to buy himself some forgiveness when things didn't go so well.
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean and I think that was also addressed earlier, the process was a big part of the problem with several potential candidates either not applying or ruling themselves out as they felt the decision had already been made.
I have no issues with Razor getting the job, if he was an amazing regional manager applying for the national manger job in a business, I doubt they tell him to go work for the opposition for a while and then come back when another role opens up in 2-4 years depending on their success.
What is an issue, is NZR have given him the full 4 years, one woudl hope this included a review after 18 months, 2 years or so, with an option to terminate if performance was not up to scratch, but despite having the opportunity to learn from those sort of mistakes they made with Foster, I expect the contract he has is 4 years come what may.
Given that, and this goal of his to win two World Cups with different teams, I would have expected him to be significantly less conservative in his approach and less afraid of losing in his first two years. He also could have used the goal of winning the World Cup to buy himself some forgiveness when things didn't go so well.
Exactly. There has been at least one storied All Black.side in every decade since the 60s - from the 67 team, 78, 87, 96, 05 and 13.
As of right now there has not been one in the 20s and the work.that needed to be done in 24 and 25 was to lay a foundation for a shot at the world cup in 27 and the Lions in 29.. it feels like an awful lot of time has been wasted these first two years with little to.show for it.
Razor needed to sell people on the idea that the first two years would be difficult and maybe not a lot of wins would be secured but that his long term vision of building a team to win the world cup was the ultimate focus. Fear of losing + conservative selections have seen almost two years wasted.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean and I think that was also addressed earlier, the process was a big part of the problem with several potential candidates either not applying or ruling themselves out as they felt the decision had already been made.
I have no issues with Razor getting the job, if he was an amazing regional manager applying for the national manger job in a business, I doubt they tell him to go work for the opposition for a while and then come back when another role opens up in 2-4 years depending on their success.
What is an issue, is NZR have given him the full 4 years, one woudl hope this included a review after 18 months, 2 years or so, with an option to terminate if performance was not up to scratch, but despite having the opportunity to learn from those sort of mistakes they made with Foster, I expect the contract he has is 4 years come what may.
Given that, and this goal of his to win two World Cups with different teams, I would have expected him to be significantly less conservative in his approach and less afraid of losing in his first two years. He also could have used the goal of winning the World Cup to buy himself some forgiveness when things didn't go so well.
Exactly. There has been at least one storied All Black.side in every decade since the 60s - from the 67 team, 78, 87, 96, 05 and 13.
As of right now there has not been one in the 20s and the work.that needed to be done in 24 and 25 was to lay a foundation for a shot at the world cup in 27 and the Lions in 29.. it feels like an awful lot of time has been wasted these first two years with little to.show for it.
Razor needed to sell people on the idea that the first two years would be difficult and maybe not a lot of wins would be secured but that his long term vision of building a team to win the world cup was the ultimate focus. Fear of losing + conservative selections have seen almost two years wasted.
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean and I think that was also addressed earlier, the process was a big part of the problem with several potential candidates either not applying or ruling themselves out as they felt the decision had already been made.
I have no issues with Razor getting the job, if he was an amazing regional manager applying for the national manger job in a business, I doubt they tell him to go work for the opposition for a while and then come back when another role opens up in 2-4 years depending on their success.
What is an issue, is NZR have given him the full 4 years, one woudl hope this included a review after 18 months, 2 years or so, with an option to terminate if performance was not up to scratch, but despite having the opportunity to learn from those sort of mistakes they made with Foster, I expect the contract he has is 4 years come what may.
Given that, and this goal of his to win two World Cups with different teams, I would have expected him to be significantly less conservative in his approach and less afraid of losing in his first two years. He also could have used the goal of winning the World Cup to buy himself some forgiveness when things didn't go so well.
Exactly. There has been at least one storied All Black.side in every decade since the 60s - from the 67 team, 78, 87, 96, 05 and 13.
As of right now there has not been one in the 20s and the work.that needed to be done in 24 and 25 was to lay a foundation for a shot at the world cup in 27 and the Lions in 29.. it feels like an awful lot of time has been wasted these first two years with little to.show for it.
Razor needed to sell people on the idea that the first two years would be difficult and maybe not a lot of wins would be secured but that his long term vision of building a team to win the world cup was the ultimate focus. Fear of losing + conservative selections have seen almost two years wasted.
100%
The selections of Cane and TJP were completely unnecessary.
Cane is a hero and game as fuck. Nothing but respect for the guy.
But there was no need for him to be there.
Your Lakai’s, Papalii’s, Sotutu’s of the world should have more caps at this stage.
Not to mention the fly half debacle.
Lose a few tests in year one with Ruben Love at 10 and Lakai at 7 and you might get a pass.
Losing with the same old shower of chancers as the last bloke….not acceptable.
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@Jet It's the same problem as Foster had in some ways - too loyal to the players to drop them. Rieko shouldn't be shuffled to the wing, if he's not your centre he should be dropped and asked to play a couple of games at wing at a lower level to show he still can.
BB should be gone. Best case I think we see him shuffled to fullback.
TJP and Cane as you say.
With Foster I'd speculate it was personal loyalty, because he knew them all so well. With Robertson, perhaps there's some sort of culture which he is trying to create, because he has actually ditched guys he knew in Blackadder and Havili, while retaining past-it but long-term ABs for swansong type shit. If so I think that's a terrible mistake, because it needs to be first and foremost and above everything else, performance-based.
