All Blacks 2025
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
In fact, maybe the best example of the strangeness of Razors selections is to look at how he uses Blues players.
The Blues players he does play get picked based on reputation (Rieko starts five matches at left wing despite not having played there for years, BB is an automatic selection at 10 even though he is playing poorly) whereas the likes of Papalii and Sotutu don't even get a chance.
Yeah those are the ones he has to pick due to their contract situaton. If he could isolate all of them, he would.
Well I don't think Christie, Tuipulotu, Clarke, or Tu'ungafasi have special contracts.
Let's explore the potential reasons why Blue's players miss out.
- Robertson wants to play an expansive game which involves attacking down the openside side line and the Blues players have shown that they thrive in the narrow Cotter ball game plan, and to a lessor extent Schmidt who was also narrow but not as narrow. They therefore think the Blues players are not suited to the expansive game plan.
- They lost a lot of respect for Blue's players due to the nature of the 2023 Super Rugby semi final and have doubts about the players (while ignoring the hiding that Chiefs players got in the 2024 final and also ignoring the improvements the Blues made in defense and set piece subsequent to that 2023 semi)
- There is some kind of bad blood between some of the Blue's loosies and Razor and his cronies. Papali'i escaped this largely while Foster and Schmidt were in control.
- They don't like Aucklanders/Blues people and want players that think more like the Canterbury/Crusaders players etc. Chippy bias etc
- Blue's players aren't actually that good and their title and finals success over the last five years is because they've played together well as a team - MacDonald and Cotter are better coaches than the other Super Rugby coaches. Maybe this is what they think because they've ignored some Crusaders players now as well like Havili and Blackadder. Maybe they think the Blues are like the Crusaders. Champion team rather than Champion players.
Speculation of course.
Potentially part of the problem is that Razor has always picked certain types of players for Canterbury and Crusaders and they have to fit within that clique.
I think Razor and his team are struggling to get players from different teams, game plan approaches, and team cultures to thrive together. They're not used to working with players who don't get the Crusaders way.
This is part of the benefit of having international coaching experience. You have to pick the best players but also get them to work together at their best.
I don't see this happening at the moment.
When John Wright was made coach of the Indian cricket team the provincial factions were outraged.
In fact, by being prepared to select the best players from each province Wright took the team to unprecedented levels.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Papalii is still a good player, but he is not the foil for this loose forward trio. He's a worse version of Sam Cane, the modern game requires energy from the openside flanker. DP has very little on attack. More of a chance at blindside.
Well if you look at the actual results of the All Blacks this year - you are wrong. We should not let it go because we had our worst ever defeat last week - so things are not working.
I think we would do better if we actually had a Papali'i or a Blackadder in the pack that is focused on hitting rucks and defending. Maybe you didn't notice but our defence was pitiful in the last quarter of the last game and the loose forwards simply did not turn up to make tackles and neither did they influence the breakdown.
None of Savea, Kirifi, Vaa'i or Parker came in and made a bunch of tackles when it was needed. Instead they left it to guys like William's to try.
Parker was off for three quarters of that period!
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
Darry was fine on debut, just like Holland. Both had their tires pumped up immensely just for being fine.
eh? Holland was pumped more than Darry.
It almost feels like his promoters were on the case while he was still a foetus!Not that it wasn't deserved...
I remember Darry being lauded at the time, largely, seemingly, because he grabbed a try. But could be my memory is faulty.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
Darry was fine on debut, just like Holland. Both had their tires pumped up immensely just for being fine.
eh? Holland was pumped more than Darry.
It almost feels like his promoters were on the case while he was still a foetus!Not that it wasn't deserved...
I remember Darry being lauded at the time, largely, seemingly, because he grabbed a try. But could be my memory is faulty.
I recall him playing a good solid lock's game. He's a big boy, like Holland
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
Darry was fine on debut, just like Holland. Both had their tires pumped up immensely just for being fine.
eh? Holland was pumped more than Darry.
It almost feels like his promoters were on the case while he was still a foetus!Not that it wasn't deserved...
I remember Darry being lauded at the time, largely, seemingly, because he grabbed a try. But could be my memory is faulty.
I recall him playing a good solid lock's game. He's a big boy, like Holland
Also by far the best NPC player this season
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
Darry was fine on debut, just like Holland. Both had their tires pumped up immensely just for being fine.
eh? Holland was pumped more than Darry.
It almost feels like his promoters were on the case while he was still a foetus!Not that it wasn't deserved...
I remember Darry being lauded at the time, largely, seemingly, because he grabbed a try. But could be my memory is faulty.
I recall him playing a good solid lock's game. He's a big boy, like Holland
Absolutely - a good, solid, lock's game. Totally passable for a young player in an early international appearance.
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Papalii is still a good player, but he is not the foil for this loose forward trio. He's a worse version of Sam Cane, the modern game requires energy from the openside flanker. DP has very little on attack. More of a chance at blindside.
Well if you look at the actual results of the All Blacks this year - you are wrong. We should not let it go because we had our worst ever defeat last week - so things are not working.
I think we would do better if we actually had a Papali'i or a Blackadder in the pack that is focused on hitting rucks and defending. Maybe you didn't notice but our defence was pitiful in the last quarter of the last game and the loose forwards simply did not turn up to make tackles and neither did they influence the breakdown.
None of Savea, Kirifi, Vaa'i or Parker came in and made a bunch of tackles when it was needed. Instead they left it to guys like William's to try.
Parker was off for three quarters of that period!
He came back on for Vaa'i
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Papalii is still a good player, but he is not the foil for this loose forward trio. He's a worse version of Sam Cane, the modern game requires energy from the openside flanker. DP has very little on attack. More of a chance at blindside.
Well if you look at the actual results of the All Blacks this year - you are wrong. We should not let it go because we had our worst ever defeat last week - so things are not working.
I think we would do better if we actually had a Papali'i or a Blackadder in the pack that is focused on hitting rucks and defending. Maybe you didn't notice but our defence was pitiful in the last quarter of the last game and the loose forwards simply did not turn up to make tackles and neither did they influence the breakdown.
None of Savea, Kirifi, Vaa'i or Parker came in and made a bunch of tackles when it was needed. Instead they left it to guys like William's to try.
Parker was off for three quarters of that period!
He came back on for Vaa'i
Off for 15 back for 5.
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If we are going to wax lyrical about overseas ex ABs, that Akira Ioane guy might have been useful.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
Schmidt doesn't like the guy.
Schmidt told you that?
It's in the public domain - he's openly accused Robertson of lacking integrity.
“A big part of it was about integrity. “The pressure that was being exerted was contributed to by not just New Zealand Rugby, but people aiming up at ‘Fozzie’.
“There was a podcast – with Jim Hamilton and Scott Robertson. That’s in the public domain. That was a pressure point and an advertisement that he [Robertson] wanted to win the World Cup with two different teams.
“And he [Robertson] applied pressure by starting an interview with ‘Bula’ when there was talk of the Fijian job being open. That was happening in the foreground, not the background. That was the tip of the iceberg, and it was bloody awkward for Foz.”
Kind of wish he was coaching Fiji right now ....
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
Darry was fine on debut, just like Holland. Both had their tires pumped up immensely just for being fine.
eh? Holland was pumped more than Darry.
It almost feels like his promoters were on the case while he was still a foetus!Not that it wasn't deserved...
I remember Darry being lauded at the time, largely, seemingly, because he grabbed a try. But could be my memory is faulty.
he was lauded for being hardworking and not looking out of place, I thought.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
Schmidt doesn't like the guy.
Schmidt told you that?
It's in the public domain - he's openly accused Robertson of lacking integrity.
“A big part of it was about integrity. “The pressure that was being exerted was contributed to by not just New Zealand Rugby, but people aiming up at ‘Fozzie’.
“There was a podcast – with Jim Hamilton and Scott Robertson. That’s in the public domain. That was a pressure point and an advertisement that he [Robertson] wanted to win the World Cup with two different teams.
“And he [Robertson] applied pressure by starting an interview with ‘Bula’ when there was talk of the Fijian job being open. That was happening in the foreground, not the background. That was the tip of the iceberg, and it was bloody awkward for Foz.”
I was asking george if george heard this directly from Joe.
And your quote was in Foster's book, right? Which is hardly an impartial source, and walked back by Schmidt recently: -
@nostrildamus
That's not surprising given the games coming up - see every epl pre match where the coaches supposedly don't like each other. -
Posing a question here. The All Blacks clearly have an issue at 10, and part of that issue is not having the cattle. To cover that we need a threat from 9. Cam Roigard clearly has a great running game, but I find it odd that outside of Hotham, the other three used this year lack in this area.
He has his flaws, but Folau Fakatava shows far superior playmaking abilities to Ratima, Christie, Preston and Roe. I think to have him ranked below all those guys, given the ABs struggles at 10, is incredibly short-sighted.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Posing a question here. The All Blacks clearly have an issue at 10, and part of that issue is not having the cattle. To cover that we need a threat from 9. Cam Roigard clearly has a great running game, but I find it odd that outside of Hotham, the other three used this year lack in this area.
He has his flaws, but Folau Fakatava shows far superior playmaking abilities to Ratima, Christie, Preston and Roe. I think to have him ranked below all those guys, given the ABs struggles at 10, is incredibly short-sighted.
I found his non-selection given the injuries we had bizarre.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Posing a question here. The All Blacks clearly have an issue at 10, and part of that issue is not having the cattle. To cover that we need a threat from 9. Cam Roigard clearly has a great running game, but I find it odd that outside of Hotham, the other three used this year lack in this area.
He has his flaws, but Folau Fakatava shows far superior playmaking abilities to Ratima, Christie, Preston and Roe. I think to have him ranked below all those guys, given the ABs struggles at 10, is incredibly short-sighted.
Fakatava does have his fans on here (me included) but I wonder if there is something else we don't know about. Perhaps he doesn't obey team tactics like the others? I have no idea. But he doesn't play for the Blues so that isn't a reason.
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@nostrildamus it's an odd one. Supposedly NZ Rugby really went out of their way to retain him just a few months ago, even make some serious noises that he was in the All Blacks picture...only for Razor to go...six or seven halfbacks deep and not select him. Can't get my head around it. Maybe there's something we don't know, but equally hard to not feel he's been hard done by.
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@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2025:
Def would have given opposition more to think about than Christie
Both sides of the ball... Christie(for all his faults) is an absolute terrier on D.
I wouldn't pick him as he's a handbrake at the ruck, but his courage and effect defensively is really apparent
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And your quote was in Foster's book, right? Which is hardly an impartial source,
It's a direct quote from Schmidt - a primary source. Whose book it's from is irrelevant.
