All Blacks 2025
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The naysayers can continue to point to the fact that he didn't set the world on fire in black. Was he as bad as the guys we have now? We have roughly a 50% win record this season
@canefan said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
The naysayers can continue to point to the fact that he didn't set the world on fire in black. Was he as bad as the guys we have now? We have roughly a 50% win record this season
Rugby Championship Win Rate ( Foster and Robertson era's only loose forwards )
100% 4/4 Sotutu
91.7% 11/12 Papali'i
81.8% 9/11 Ioane
80% 8/10 Jacobson
71% 5/7 Frizell
71% 5/7 Cane
68% 17/25 Savea
66% 2/3 Finau
66% 2/3 Kirifi
62.5% 5/8 Blackadder
60% 3/5 Parker
55% 5/9 Sititi
50% 1/2 Vaa'i -
Even if Sotutu was picked, he wasn't going to play. Savea plays 80 mins at 8 (well, last year) week in week out. So at best he was getting 10 minutes at blindside every couple of tests.
And when he didn't immediately set the world on fire the usual dipshits would have said "i told you so"
The biggest missed opportunity in years.
@reprobate said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
It's their job to grab the guys with the most potential to dominate test rugby. Get him in and work with him.
I had 17 seasons as a member watching shit be served up at Eden Park. Saw all sorts coming through and playing.
The two biggest disappoints for me were Akira and Hoskins.
Akira was absolutely dynamite early. He got wrecked by Tana, basically carrying the team on his back. His upside was enormous - all the negativity around him astonished me as they just didn't see (or care) about his early workrate. Bluntly, a dysfunctional org and a shit coach overplayed him and he did not take his physical gifts to the next level. And even then that level was high - he dominated multiple test matches, but then (like most of the team) struggled against SA. And for those who say he left early - go look at his leaving interview again. The body language screamed someone who was making a financial decision as the pathway in NZ had stopped. Akira looked like he didn't want to leave, but with no future who can blame him.
Hoskins was another with enormous upside potential. You can 'both sides of the ball' all you want, but you can't coach instinct and vision. He was absolutely hitting his straps in 2023, defensively strong and brings offensive carrying and distribution to a loose trio that we are sorely missing.
If either of those boys get the nurture and the development from the ABs that you see for other players, they go on to be studs at Test level. Henry or early Hansen probably gets them there - they brought on players like Coles who had uncoachable attributes. But instead we just get criticism of parts of people's game, not looking at potential, and ultimately players heading offshore with 'I told you so' ringing in their ears.
It's fucked.
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@canefan said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
The naysayers can continue to point to the fact that he didn't set the world on fire in black. Was he as bad as the guys we have now? We have roughly a 50% win record this season
Rugby Championship Win Rate ( Foster and Robertson era's only loose forwards )
100% 4/4 Sotutu
91.7% 11/12 Papali'i
81.8% 9/11 Ioane
80% 8/10 Jacobson
71% 5/7 Frizell
71% 5/7 Cane
68% 17/25 Savea
66% 2/3 Finau
66% 2/3 Kirifi
62.5% 5/8 Blackadder
60% 3/5 Parker
55% 5/9 Sititi
50% 1/2 Vaa'i@brodean said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
The naysayers can continue to point to the fact that he didn't set the world on fire in black. Was he as bad as the guys we have now? We have roughly a 50% win record this season
Rugby Championship Win Rate ( Foster and Robertson era's only loose forwards )
100% 4/4 Sotutu
91.7% 11/12 Papali'i
81.8% 9/11 Ioane
80% 8/10 Jacobson
71% 5/7 Frizell
71% 5/7 Cane
66% 2/3 Finau
66% 2/3 Kirifi
62.5% 5/8 Blackadder
60% 3/5 Parker
55% 5/9 Sititi
50% 1/2 Vaa'iI thought Luke Jacobson was a top performer against any Aussie opposition. How does that stack?
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@brodean said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
The naysayers can continue to point to the fact that he didn't set the world on fire in black. Was he as bad as the guys we have now? We have roughly a 50% win record this season
Rugby Championship Win Rate ( Foster and Robertson era's only loose forwards )
100% 4/4 Sotutu
91.7% 11/12 Papali'i
81.8% 9/11 Ioane
80% 8/10 Jacobson
71% 5/7 Frizell
71% 5/7 Cane
66% 2/3 Finau
66% 2/3 Kirifi
62.5% 5/8 Blackadder
60% 3/5 Parker
55% 5/9 Sititi
50% 1/2 Vaa'iI thought Luke Jacobson was a top performer against any Aussie opposition. How does that stack?
@ARHS said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
The naysayers can continue to point to the fact that he didn't set the world on fire in black. Was he as bad as the guys we have now? We have roughly a 50% win record this season
Rugby Championship Win Rate ( Foster and Robertson era's only loose forwards )
100% 4/4 Sotutu
91.7% 11/12 Papali'i
81.8% 9/11 Ioane
80% 8/10 Jacobson
71% 5/7 Frizell
71% 5/7 Cane
66% 2/3 Finau
66% 2/3 Kirifi
62.5% 5/8 Blackadder
60% 3/5 Parker
55% 5/9 Sititi
50% 1/2 Vaa'iI thought Luke Jacobson was a top performer against any Aussie opposition. How does that stack?
Personally I rate Jacobson as the best Chiefs loose forward this decade.
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I do think it is very 2025 that in general everyone is so negative about everything.
The bigger criticisms of the current coaches, should be the coaching.
The selections in the matchday 23 are more or less what most would say is our best team.
There have been some good things to come out of this year, and I look forward to seeing how the likes of TK Howden and Josh Beehre handle the step up to the NZ XV squad.
Honestly; who seriously gives a fuck about Havili playing for the NZ XV. Your effectively debating who the 10th best midfielder in the country is.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
It's their job to grab the guys with the most potential to dominate test rugby. Get him in and work with him.
I had 17 seasons as a member watching shit be served up at Eden Park. Saw all sorts coming through and playing.
The two biggest disappoints for me were Akira and Hoskins.
Akira was absolutely dynamite early. He got wrecked by Tana, basically carrying the team on his back. His upside was enormous - all the negativity around him astonished me as they just didn't see (or care) about his early workrate. Bluntly, a dysfunctional org and a shit coach overplayed him and he did not take his physical gifts to the next level. And even then that level was high - he dominated multiple test matches, but then (like most of the team) struggled against SA. And for those who say he left early - go look at his leaving interview again. The body language screamed someone who was making a financial decision as the pathway in NZ had stopped. Akira looked like he didn't want to leave, but with no future who can blame him.
Hoskins was another with enormous upside potential. You can 'both sides of the ball' all you want, but you can't coach instinct and vision. He was absolutely hitting his straps in 2023, defensively strong and brings offensive carrying and distribution to a loose trio that we are sorely missing.
If either of those boys get the nurture and the development from the ABs that you see for other players, they go on to be studs at Test level. Henry or early Hansen probably gets them there - they brought on players like Coles who had uncoachable attributes. But instead we just get criticism of parts of people's game, not looking at potential, and ultimately players heading offshore with 'I told you so' ringing in their ears.
It's fucked.
@nzzp said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
It's their job to grab the guys with the most potential to dominate test rugby. Get him in and work with him.
I had 17 seasons as a member watching shit be served up at Eden Park. Saw all sorts coming through and playing.
The two biggest disappoints for me were Akira and Hoskins.
Akira was absolutely dynamite early. He got wrecked by Tana, basically carrying the team on his back. His upside was enormous - all the negativity around him astonished me as they just didn't see (or care) about his early workrate. Bluntly, a dysfunctional org and a shit coach overplayed him and he did not take his physical gifts to the next level. And even then that level was high - he dominated multiple test matches, but then (like most of the team) struggled against SA. And for those who say he left early - go look at his leaving interview again. The body language screamed someone who was making a financial decision as the pathway in NZ had stopped. Akira looked like he didn't want to leave, but with no future who can blame him.
Hoskins was another with enormous upside potential. You can 'both sides of the ball' all you want, but you can't coach instinct and vision. He was absolutely hitting his straps in 2023, defensively strong and brings offensive carrying and distribution to a loose trio that we are sorely missing.
If either of those boys get the nurture and the development from the ABs that you see for other players, they go on to be studs at Test level. Henry or early Hansen probably gets them there - they brought on players like Coles who had uncoachable attributes. But instead we just get criticism of parts of people's game, not looking at potential, and ultimately players heading offshore with 'I told you so' ringing in their ears.
It's fucked.
Great post. The thing about Akira Ioane and South Africa is that he won 50% of the games he played in against them however the AB's this decade have only won 36% of games against South Africa. Was he great against them? No. Was he better than some people think he was? Yes.
Things are worse than what they are under the Foster era. Foster won all 3 of the RC's his teams competed in. Robertson is 0 from 2.
A number of the players that were bagged under the Foster era are better than the ones we have now.
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I do think it is very 2025 that in general everyone is so negative about everything.
The bigger criticisms of the current coaches, should be the coaching.
The selections in the matchday 23 are more or less what most would say is our best team.
There have been some good things to come out of this year, and I look forward to seeing how the likes of TK Howden and Josh Beehre handle the step up to the NZ XV squad.
Honestly; who seriously gives a fuck about Havili playing for the NZ XV. Your effectively debating who the 10th best midfielder in the country is.
@frugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
I do think it is very 2025 that in general everyone is so negative about everything.
The bigger criticisms of the current coaches, should be the coaching.
The selections in the matchday 23 are more or less what most would say is our best team.
There have been some good things to come out of this year, and I look forward to seeing how the likes of TK Howden and Josh Berger handle the step up to the NZ XV squad.
Honestly; who seriously gives a fuck about Havili playing for the NZ XV. Your effectively debating who the 10th best midfielder in the country is.
I don't agree that its more or less our best matchday 23. It's way off compared to the players we have available. The overall squad selection is bogus.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
It's their job to grab the guys with the most potential to dominate test rugby. Get him in and work with him.
I had 17 seasons as a member watching shit be served up at Eden Park. Saw all sorts coming through and playing.
The two biggest disappoints for me were Akira and Hoskins.
Akira was absolutely dynamite early. He got wrecked by Tana, basically carrying the team on his back. His upside was enormous - all the negativity around him astonished me as they just didn't see (or care) about his early workrate. Bluntly, a dysfunctional org and a shit coach overplayed him and he did not take his physical gifts to the next level. And even then that level was high - he dominated multiple test matches, but then (like most of the team) struggled against SA. And for those who say he left early - go look at his leaving interview again. The body language screamed someone who was making a financial decision as the pathway in NZ had stopped. Akira looked like he didn't want to leave, but with no future who can blame him.
Hoskins was another with enormous upside potential. You can 'both sides of the ball' all you want, but you can't coach instinct and vision. He was absolutely hitting his straps in 2023, defensively strong and brings offensive carrying and distribution to a loose trio that we are sorely missing.
If either of those boys get the nurture and the development from the ABs that you see for other players, they go on to be studs at Test level. Henry or early Hansen probably gets them there - they brought on players like Coles who had uncoachable attributes. But instead we just get criticism of parts of people's game, not looking at potential, and ultimately players heading offshore with 'I told you so' ringing in their ears.
It's fucked.
@nzzp Yes - Akira is very much a coulda, woulda, shoulda. But, Hansen was the guy who didn't pick him and took the pretty unusual step of giving him a public serve - "he needs to get thirsty". I don't think he played a test under Hansen.
He did however get called down to Dunedin early on to train with the ABs and something went wrong down there, because he never featured again. Not even vs Japan later that year when every man and his dog got a test cap.
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@nzzp Yes - Akira is very much a coulda, woulda, shoulda. But, Hansen was the guy who didn't pick him and took the pretty unusual step of giving him a public serve - "he needs to get thirsty". I don't think he played a test under Hansen.
He did however get called down to Dunedin early on to train with the ABs and something went wrong down there, because he never featured again. Not even vs Japan later that year when every man and his dog got a test cap.
@Chris-B I think that's my frustration. Both of those lads could have gone to another level with the right coaching and investment.
God knows what happened in Dunedin but putting him outside the top 50 players in the country is some grudge.
Ironically, I expected Razor's superpower to be man management, but I am not seeing a lot of that play out at the moment.
Hansen lost Piutau and Luatua overseas - both who would have plugged big holes in our 2019 squad. How people feel is really important to get them to stay and perform at the top level.
Also, the ABs does not feel like an elite performance environment at the moment. No one is writing books on how good BB is at the ten jersey - we have slipped from leading the way with professionalism to being old fashioned also rans. It's very frustrating.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
It's their job to grab the guys with the most potential to dominate test rugby. Get him in and work with him.
I had 17 seasons as a member watching shit be served up at Eden Park. Saw all sorts coming through and playing.
The two biggest disappoints for me were Akira and Hoskins.
Akira was absolutely dynamite early. He got wrecked by Tana, basically carrying the team on his back. His upside was enormous - all the negativity around him astonished me as they just didn't see (or care) about his early workrate. Bluntly, a dysfunctional org and a shit coach overplayed him and he did not take his physical gifts to the next level. And even then that level was high - he dominated multiple test matches, but then (like most of the team) struggled against SA. And for those who say he left early - go look at his leaving interview again. The body language screamed someone who was making a financial decision as the pathway in NZ had stopped. Akira looked like he didn't want to leave, but with no future who can blame him.
Hoskins was another with enormous upside potential. You can 'both sides of the ball' all you want, but you can't coach instinct and vision. He was absolutely hitting his straps in 2023, defensively strong and brings offensive carrying and distribution to a loose trio that we are sorely missing.
If either of those boys get the nurture and the development from the ABs that you see for other players, they go on to be studs at Test level. Henry or early Hansen probably gets them there - they brought on players like Coles who had uncoachable attributes. But instead we just get criticism of parts of people's game, not looking at potential, and ultimately players heading offshore with 'I told you so' ringing in their ears.
It's fucked.
Great post. The thing about Akira Ioane and South Africa is that he won 50% of the games he played in against them however the AB's this decade have only won 36% of games against South Africa. Was he great against them? No. Was he better than some people think he was? Yes.
Things are worse than what they are under the Foster era. Foster won all 3 of the RC's his teams competed in. Robertson is 0 from 2.
A number of the players that were bagged under the Foster era are better than the ones we have now.
@brodean said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Things are worse than what they are under the Foster era. Foster won all 3 of the RC's his teams competed in. Robertson is 0 from 2.
A number of the players that were bagged under the Foster era are better than the ones we have now.
I surprise myself here defending the current coaching record but the Boks are arguably much superior now so that could be a factor however small.
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Was neither here nor there re Akira (for me another immensely gifted physical specimen but just didnt have the top 2 inches) but Hoskins IMO had the soft skills to go with the physical requirements to make it at the next level.
The both sides of the ball thing was odd as he did great things on both sides, for him to be completely ignored is most bizarre.
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@nzzp Yes - Akira is very much a coulda, woulda, shoulda. But, Hansen was the guy who didn't pick him and took the pretty unusual step of giving him a public serve - "he needs to get thirsty". I don't think he played a test under Hansen.
He did however get called down to Dunedin early on to train with the ABs and something went wrong down there, because he never featured again. Not even vs Japan later that year when every man and his dog got a test cap.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@nzzp Yes - Akira is very much a coulda, woulda, shoulda. But, Hansen was the guy who didn't pick him and took the pretty unusual step of giving him a public serve - "he needs to get thirsty". I don't think he played a test under Hansen.
He did however get called down to Dunedin early on to train with the ABs and something went wrong down there, because he never featured again. Not even vs Japan later that year when every man and his dog got a test cap.
You know, if you really wanted to nip Blues conspiracy theories in the bud, suggesting it goes even deeper to an earlier ex Crusaders assistant coach isn't really going to help!
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Was neither here nor there re Akira (for me another immensely gifted physical specimen but just didnt have the top 2 inches) but Hoskins IMO had the soft skills to go with the physical requirements to make it at the next level.
The both sides of the ball thing was odd as he did great things on both sides, for him to be completely ignored is most bizarre.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Was neither here nor there re Akira, but Hoskins IMO had the soft skills to go with the physical requirements to make it at the next level.
The both sides of the ball thing was odd as he did great things on both sides, for him to be completely ignored is most bizarre.
Yeah, he had really exciting and unique skills. I guess I will just have to wait and see if an English coach can polish those at international level :anguished_face:
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Was neither here nor there re Akira, but Hoskins IMO had the soft skills to go with the physical requirements to make it at the next level.
The both sides of the ball thing was odd as he did great things on both sides, for him to be completely ignored is most bizarre.
Yeah, he had really exciting and unique skills. I guess I will just have to wait and see if an English coach can polish those at international level :anguished_face:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Was neither here nor there re Akira, but Hoskins IMO had the soft skills to go with the physical requirements to make it at the next level.
The both sides of the ball thing was odd as he did great things on both sides, for him to be completely ignored is most bizarre.
Yeah, he had really exciting and unique skills. I guess I will just have to wait and see if an English coach can polish those at international level :anguished_face:
Yup. I believe Hoskins is lost to NZ now. He will play out his time and go
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Actually, I think @Steven Harris knows about Dunedin.
As I've said before, I've got nothing against Akira and would have liked to see him used more and occasionally persisted with when things went wrong.
But, the polarization on here between his fans and his detractors meant no-one got a fair hearing at blindside for seven or eight years..
Yes - the Razor era has been something of a disappointment to me so far, compared to what I'd hoped for. But, I keep thinking we're not far off.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@nzzp Yes - Akira is very much a coulda, woulda, shoulda. But, Hansen was the guy who didn't pick him and took the pretty unusual step of giving him a public serve - "he needs to get thirsty". I don't think he played a test under Hansen.
He did however get called down to Dunedin early on to train with the ABs and something went wrong down there, because he never featured again. Not even vs Japan later that year when every man and his dog got a test cap.
You know, if you really wanted to nip Blues conspiracy theories in the bud, suggesting it goes even deeper to an earlier ex Crusaders assistant coach isn't really going to help!
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@nzzp Yes - Akira is very much a coulda, woulda, shoulda. But, Hansen was the guy who didn't pick him and took the pretty unusual step of giving him a public serve - "he needs to get thirsty". I don't think he played a test under Hansen.
He did however get called down to Dunedin early on to train with the ABs and something went wrong down there, because he never featured again. Not even vs Japan later that year when every man and his dog got a test cap.
You know, if you really wanted to nip Blues conspiracy theories in the bud, suggesting it goes even deeper to an earlier ex Crusaders assistant coach isn't really going to help!
This stuff isn't half-arsed rumours - it's on the public record.
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I think with Akira there's a number of sections to his career
- breakout star in npc/super rugby
- was on fringe of ABs/publicly lambasted by Hansen. Around this time he was being played into the ground by Umaga
- Fozzie era ABs where Tom Conventry was Blues forwards coach where Akira cracked the ABs.
- Jase Ryan took over as forwards coach in ABs and Akira was fairly quickly discarded not to return
- Akira not picked under Razor/had already signalled his intent to sign overseas despite a standout campaign for the Blues under Vern Cotter and incredible shift at 6 in the Super Rugby Final.
Now with the last part of Akira's NZ career I would agree with what @nzzp said below, bearing in mind there had been a lot of talk on here for a long time that Razor didnt rate Akira combined with Jase Ryan fairly quickly getting rid of him once he came on as forwards coach in the Fozzie era
And for those who say he left early - go look at his leaving interview again. The body language screamed someone who was making a financial decision as the pathway in NZ had stopped. Akira looked like he didn't want to leave, but with no future who can blame him. -
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@nzzp Yes - Akira is very much a coulda, woulda, shoulda. But, Hansen was the guy who didn't pick him and took the pretty unusual step of giving him a public serve - "he needs to get thirsty". I don't think he played a test under Hansen.
He did however get called down to Dunedin early on to train with the ABs and something went wrong down there, because he never featured again. Not even vs Japan later that year when every man and his dog got a test cap.
You know, if you really wanted to nip Blues conspiracy theories in the bud, suggesting it goes even deeper to an earlier ex Crusaders assistant coach isn't really going to help!
This stuff isn't half-arsed rumours - it's on the public record.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@nzzp Yes - Akira is very much a coulda, woulda, shoulda. But, Hansen was the guy who didn't pick him and took the pretty unusual step of giving him a public serve - "he needs to get thirsty". I don't think he played a test under Hansen.
He did however get called down to Dunedin early on to train with the ABs and something went wrong down there, because he never featured again. Not even vs Japan later that year when every man and his dog got a test cap.
You know, if you really wanted to nip Blues conspiracy theories in the bud, suggesting it goes even deeper to an earlier ex Crusaders assistant coach isn't really going to help!
This stuff isn't half-arsed rumours - it's on the public record.
You are deliberately misreading my posts. And of course I know what Hansen said.
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@Nepia Yeah - he preferred Frizell.
But, where was Shannon in 2024? He'd taken the yen and was unavailable for selection.
The blindside position was pretty open for someone to take and it still seems to be.
There's a raft of posts saying the coaches are actively discriminating against Blues players, so I'm perfectly accurate in labeling it a conspiracy theory.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Nepia Yeah - he preferred Frizell.
But, where was Shannon in 2024? He'd taken the yen and was unavailable for selection.
The blindside position was pretty open for someone to take and it still seems to be.
There's a raft of posts saying the coaches are actively discriminating against Blues players, so I'm perfectly accurate in labeling it a conspiracy theory.
Just to confirm who were the standout loose forwards in SR 2024 and their performances were instrumental in their team's success?
