All Blacks 2025
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I don't care that certain coaches found Akira Ioane difficult, he could this in the Test arena. Wow! What a player!
@sparky said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
I don't care that certain coaches found Akira Ioane difficult, he could this in the Test arena. Wow! What a player!
Dealing with difficult personalities is a big part of the skill set of a coach. Phil Jackson made a hall of fame career out of doing exactly that.
Its so weak when players get cast aside because coaches can't handle them. Sure, if they do something egregiously wrong or criminal then I can see that but handling difficult personalities is part of the job description.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@African-Monkey yeah was Ice, he had played 8 games for Auckland (according to Wiki)
Rokocoko debuted at both super and ABs in 2003
Mitchell and Deans definitely picked Joe Rok on potential given in that super season he wasn’t a permanent starter with Rupeni and Dougie there plus Mils and Rico.
Yes he was, Doug mostly played fullback and Mils mostly played centre. I think Joe had the most appearances of all the wings and played the finals. Rico was on the bench the most.
@Nepia said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@African-Monkey yeah was Ice, he had played 8 games for Auckland (according to Wiki)
Rokocoko debuted at both super and ABs in 2003
Mitchell and Deans definitely picked Joe Rok on potential given in that super season he wasn’t a permanent starter with Rupeni and Dougie there plus Mils and Rico.
Yes he was, Doug mostly played fullback and Mils mostly played centre. I think Joe had the most appearances of all the wings and played the finals. Rico was on the bench the most.
Yeah that’s the way I remember it , they did have a rotation system, where mils would play fb , Rico 13 and one of Doug , Joe and rupeni would have a spell . But their number 1 side seemed to be Doug FB , Fijian boys on the wings , mils at 13, Rico bench.
What was odd though was the abs playing rangi at 13 when tana went down and they didn’t seem to have faith in a green nonu, when mils seemed the more obvious choice .
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@sparky said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
I don't care that certain coaches found Akira Ioane difficult, he could this in the Test arena. Wow! What a player!
Dealing with difficult personalities is a big part of the skill set of a coach. Phil Jackson made a hall of fame career out of doing exactly that.
Its so weak when players get cast aside because coaches can't handle them. Sure, if they do something egregiously wrong or criminal then I can see that but handling difficult personalities is part of the job description.
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
I don't care that certain coaches found Akira Ioane difficult, he could this in the Test arena. Wow! What a player!
Dealing with difficult personalities is a big part of the skill set of a coach. Phil Jackson made a hall of fame career out of doing exactly that.
Its so weak when players get cast aside because coaches can't handle them. Sure, if they do something egregiously wrong or criminal then I can see that but handling difficult personalities is part of the job description.
You get a pass if you are one of the coaches' favourites. Just ask Shannon and Sevu
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The revisionism on here is crazy... the arguments around Sotutu last year - totally fair and reasonable. But these claims around Akira Ioane are nonsensical. In his time in New Zealand, we had three different coaches, and none of them took a true liking to him.
Blaming Jase Ryan is just a lazy excuse. Akira got a good run, and played some decent footy in black between 20-22. Him losing his spot to Frizzell was a timing thing. Frizzell played the game of his life in the test which saved Foster's job, and largely backed that up (scored two tries in the RWC SF which is conveniently forgotten), and dominated the Boks at Mt Smart, so deservedly kept the shirt. Him being anonymous in the World Cup doesn't change that.
Ioane drifted from view because Finau had a superb 2023 Super campaign, and looked like our next star (like Fifita, Frizzell and Ioane before him). We only took one blindside to the World Cup and that was Frizzell. Scott Barrett was the backup 6.
If Akira was undeniable, he'd have been retained - but he wasn't. He was just another inconsistent blindside in a long line since Kaino - and there is nothing to suggest that his Super Rugby form would have all of a sudden translated to test rugby.
He played 21 tests in three years, Frizzell 33 in five years. It is a very similar ratio (half the tests in a year) because they were both inconsistent and neither could nail the shirt - just as is happening now with Samipeni Finau, and dare I say it, Simon Parker might go the same way.
It begs the question, are we asking too much of our blindside flanker?
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What I find quite curious is Dalton Papali'i was basically dropped immediately after Leon MacDonald left.
@brodean said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
What I find quite curious is Dalton Papali'i was basically dropped immediately after Leon MacDonald left.
That's not true. Papalii broke his thumb so missed the first test against the Springboks, coinciding with Sam Cane's return. Cane was then shepherded through to 100 tests in the Bledisloe Cup.
Papalii then pulled his hamstring and missed the end of year tour when he otherwise would have been selected.
This year, they are clearly looking from a different skillset from their openside flanker, and I think it is a real stretch to say that the attack coach dictates who we play at openside.
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The revisionism on here is crazy... the arguments around Sotutu last year - totally fair and reasonable. But these claims around Akira Ioane are nonsensical. In his time in New Zealand, we had three different coaches, and none of them took a true liking to him.
Blaming Jase Ryan is just a lazy excuse. Akira got a good run, and played some decent footy in black between 20-22. Him losing his spot to Frizzell was a timing thing. Frizzell played the game of his life in the test which saved Foster's job, and largely backed that up (scored two tries in the RWC SF which is conveniently forgotten), and dominated the Boks at Mt Smart, so deservedly kept the shirt. Him being anonymous in the World Cup doesn't change that.
Ioane drifted from view because Finau had a superb 2023 Super campaign, and looked like our next star (like Fifita, Frizzell and Ioane before him). We only took one blindside to the World Cup and that was Frizzell. Scott Barrett was the backup 6.
If Akira was undeniable, he'd have been retained - but he wasn't. He was just another inconsistent blindside in a long line since Kaino - and there is nothing to suggest that his Super Rugby form would have all of a sudden translated to test rugby.
He played 21 tests in three years, Frizzell 33 in five years. It is a very similar ratio (half the tests in a year) because they were both inconsistent and neither could nail the shirt - just as is happening now with Samipeni Finau, and dare I say it, Simon Parker might go the same way.
It begs the question, are we asking too much of our blindside flanker?
@frugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
The revisionism on here is crazy... the arguments around Sotutu last year - totally fair and reasonable. But these claims around Akira Ioane are nonsensical. In his time in New Zealand, we had three different coaches, and none of them took a true liking to him.
Blaming Jase Ryan is just a lazy excuse. Akira got a good run, and played some decent footy in black between 20-22. Him losing his spot to Frizzell was a timing thing. Frizzell played the game of his life in the test which saved Foster's job, and largely backed that up (scored two tries in the RWC SF which is conveniently forgotten), and dominated the Boks at Mt Smart, so deservedly kept the shirt. Him being anonymous in the World Cup doesn't change that.
Ioane drifted from view because Finau had a superb 2023 Super campaign, and looked like our next star (like Fifita, Frizzell and Ioane before him). We only took one blindside to the World Cup and that was Frizzell. Scott Barrett was the backup 6.
If Akira was undeniable, he'd have been retained - but he wasn't. He was just another inconsistent blindside in a long line since Kaino - and there is nothing to suggest that his Super Rugby form would have all of a sudden translated to test rugby.
He played 21 tests in three years, Frizzell 33 in five years. It is a very similar ratio (half the tests in a year) because they were both inconsistent and neither could nail the shirt - just as is happening now with Samipeni Finau, and dare I say it, Simon Parker might go the same way.
It begs the question, are we asking too much of our blindside flanker?
Great post which I hope nips all this nonsense about Akira Ioane being the most hard done by All Black in history to bed. You can show his great games vs Australia til the cows come home, what about Frizzels massive game vs SA ? what about Vaea Fifita dominating Argentina like he did ? inconsistent performances like you said.
In saying all that he should have still been picked in Razors squad last year when you consider some of the other options that made it.
JC and JK were an extremely tough act to follow. A couple of absolute all time greats. The job description of a blindside might sound simple enough but by crikey it isn't easy in practice. No one has taken the mantle and there's nothing so far to suggest Finau or Parker will. Hopefully one proves me wrong.
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@reprobate Crikey!
We were shit all season (probably excluding this game) but have you not gleaned the Fern assessments of these guys?
Shalfoon - soft thug
Strange - weak moron
Blackadder - Busy but ineffectual
Hotham - probably not awful
Reece - old, slow and useless
Havili - worse than Reece
Aumua - worse than Havili and the worst midfielder everThat's just the Ta$man players.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@reprobate Crikey!
We were shit all season (probably excluding this game) but have you not gleaned the Fern assessments of these guys?
Shalfoon - soft thug
Strange - weak moron
Blackadder - Busy but ineffectual
Hotham - probably not awful
Reece - old, slow and useless
Havili - worse than Reece
Aumua - worse than Havili and the worst midfielder everThat's just the Ta$man players.
Not even as good as BOP.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@KiwiMurph But, doesn't all that pre-suppose that Akira was going to be a compelling selection?
A week or so before he announced he was off, the Blues went down to Christchurch and lost to the worst Crusaders in living memory. What if they'd shit the bed in the 2024 semi-final as per 2023?
I'm honestly not trying to troll you or anything.
I just don't see the logic.
And I suspect it's because you guys are looking at what his career could have been and I'm looking at what his career was.
I don't think Akira's and Hoskins' contributions in black aren't any worse than some of the guys who have been given extended runs (EB and Frizell come to mind). Coaches play favourites and always have. At the same time, both guys have been passed over by more than one AB coaching group. So perhaps both sides have elements of truth. Obviously we aren't seeing something that the coaches are. Or they are just plain wrong
@canefan said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@KiwiMurph But, doesn't all that pre-suppose that Akira was going to be a compelling selection?
A week or so before he announced he was off, the Blues went down to Christchurch and lost to the worst Crusaders in living memory. What if they'd shit the bed in the 2024 semi-final as per 2023?
I'm honestly not trying to troll you or anything.
I just don't see the logic.
And I suspect it's because you guys are looking at what his career could have been and I'm looking at what his career was.
I don't think Akira's and Hoskins' contributions in black aren't any worse than some of the guys who have been given extended runs (EB and Frizell come to mind). Coaches play favourites and always have. At the same time, both guys have been passed over by more than one AB coaching group. So perhaps both sides have elements of truth. Obviously we aren't seeing something that the coaches are. Or they are just plain wrong
I'm sorry but in what world has EB had an extended run in black?
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For those that have criticised the number of Chiefs loose forwards in the ABs/AB XV squads, I haven't seen any comments about there being five Hurricanes props across the two teams (including Lomax). Lauaki rarely makes the Hurricanes 23 each week.
I was expecting either Brewis or Calder to be selected.
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For those that have criticised the number of Chiefs loose forwards in the ABs/AB XV squads, I haven't seen any comments about there being five Hurricanes props across the two teams (including Lomax). Lauaki rarely makes the Hurricanes 23 each week.
I was expecting either Brewis or Calder to be selected.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
For those that have criticised the number of Chiefs loose forwards in the ABs/AB XV squads, I haven't seen any comments about there being five Hurricanes props across the two teams (including Lomax). Lauaki rarely makes the Hurricanes 23 each week.
I was expecting either Brewis or Calder to be selected.
Didn't even think about that haha. It's nothing new. I remember towards the end of Shag's reign where it felt like every Highlanders loosie possible was getting a run in Black.
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The revisionism on here is crazy... the arguments around Sotutu last year - totally fair and reasonable. But these claims around Akira Ioane are nonsensical. In his time in New Zealand, we had three different coaches, and none of them took a true liking to him.
Blaming Jase Ryan is just a lazy excuse. Akira got a good run, and played some decent footy in black between 20-22. Him losing his spot to Frizzell was a timing thing. Frizzell played the game of his life in the test which saved Foster's job, and largely backed that up (scored two tries in the RWC SF which is conveniently forgotten), and dominated the Boks at Mt Smart, so deservedly kept the shirt. Him being anonymous in the World Cup doesn't change that.
Ioane drifted from view because Finau had a superb 2023 Super campaign, and looked like our next star (like Fifita, Frizzell and Ioane before him). We only took one blindside to the World Cup and that was Frizzell. Scott Barrett was the backup 6.
If Akira was undeniable, he'd have been retained - but he wasn't. He was just another inconsistent blindside in a long line since Kaino - and there is nothing to suggest that his Super Rugby form would have all of a sudden translated to test rugby.
He played 21 tests in three years, Frizzell 33 in five years. It is a very similar ratio (half the tests in a year) because they were both inconsistent and neither could nail the shirt - just as is happening now with Samipeni Finau, and dare I say it, Simon Parker might go the same way.
It begs the question, are we asking too much of our blindside flanker?
@frugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
The revisionism on here is crazy... the arguments around Sotutu last year - totally fair and reasonable. But these claims around Akira Ioane are nonsensical. In his time in New Zealand, we had three different coaches, and none of them took a true liking to him.
Blaming Jase Ryan is just a lazy excuse. Akira got a good run, and played some decent footy in black between 20-22. Him losing his spot to Frizzell was a timing thing. Frizzell played the game of his life in the test which saved Foster's job, and largely backed that up (scored two tries in the RWC SF which is conveniently forgotten), and dominated the Boks at Mt Smart, so deservedly kept the shirt. Him being anonymous in the World Cup doesn't change that.
Ioane drifted from view because Finau had a superb 2023 Super campaign, and looked like our next star (like Fifita, Frizzell and Ioane before him). We only took one blindside to the World Cup and that was Frizzell. Scott Barrett was the backup 6.
If Akira was undeniable, he'd have been retained - but he wasn't. He was just another inconsistent blindside in a long line since Kaino - and there is nothing to suggest that his Super Rugby form would have all of a sudden translated to test rugby.
Nice straw man you've constructed. What's undeniable is his form in 24 in a team that had a very different style to NZ SR teams - defined by hard carries and cleans in close. In this style of play Akira dominated showing all the attributes missing from a blindside flanker in the All Blacks.
So instead of selecting the player doing this so well and seeing if it could be replicated at Test level the drooling collective ignored him.
It begs the question, are we asking too much of our blindside flanker?
The pattern of our loose forwards wasn't to utilise them in tight. And then they're asked to cover for the glaring inadequacies of the others. It's a selection and strategy issue.
I am now almost completely convinced these coaches are thin-skinned idiots.
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The revisionism on here is crazy... the arguments around Sotutu last year - totally fair and reasonable. But these claims around Akira Ioane are nonsensical. In his time in New Zealand, we had three different coaches, and none of them took a true liking to him.
Blaming Jase Ryan is just a lazy excuse. Akira got a good run, and played some decent footy in black between 20-22. Him losing his spot to Frizzell was a timing thing. Frizzell played the game of his life in the test which saved Foster's job, and largely backed that up (scored two tries in the RWC SF which is conveniently forgotten), and dominated the Boks at Mt Smart, so deservedly kept the shirt. Him being anonymous in the World Cup doesn't change that.
Ioane drifted from view because Finau had a superb 2023 Super campaign, and looked like our next star (like Fifita, Frizzell and Ioane before him). We only took one blindside to the World Cup and that was Frizzell. Scott Barrett was the backup 6.
If Akira was undeniable, he'd have been retained - but he wasn't. He was just another inconsistent blindside in a long line since Kaino - and there is nothing to suggest that his Super Rugby form would have all of a sudden translated to test rugby.
He played 21 tests in three years, Frizzell 33 in five years. It is a very similar ratio (half the tests in a year) because they were both inconsistent and neither could nail the shirt - just as is happening now with Samipeni Finau, and dare I say it, Simon Parker might go the same way.
It begs the question, are we asking too much of our blindside flanker?
@frugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
The revisionism on here is crazy... the arguments around Sotutu last year - totally fair and reasonable. But these claims around Akira Ioane are nonsensical. In his time in New Zealand, we had three different coaches, and none of them took a true liking to him.
Blaming Jase Ryan is just a lazy excuse. Akira got a good run, and played some decent footy in black between 20-22. Him losing his spot to Frizzell was a timing thing. Frizzell played the game of his life in the test which saved Foster's job, and largely backed that up (scored two tries in the RWC SF which is conveniently forgotten), and dominated the Boks at Mt Smart, so deservedly kept the shirt. Him being anonymous in the World Cup doesn't change that.
Ioane drifted from view because Finau had a superb 2023 Super campaign, and looked like our next star (like Fifita, Frizzell and Ioane before him). We only took one blindside to the World Cup and that was Frizzell. Scott Barrett was the backup 6.
If Akira was undeniable, he'd have been retained - but he wasn't. He was just another inconsistent blindside in a long line since Kaino - and there is nothing to suggest that his Super Rugby form would have all of a sudden translated to test rugby.
He played 21 tests in three years, Frizzell 33 in five years. It is a very similar ratio (half the tests in a year) because they were both inconsistent and neither could nail the shirt - just as is happening now with Samipeni Finau, and dare I say it, Simon Parker might go the same way.
It begs the question, are we asking too much of our blindside flanker?
Will Genia on some podcast a couple of years ago said that Akira was in a league of his own amongst NZ loosies for physical presence.
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@canefan said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@KiwiMurph But, doesn't all that pre-suppose that Akira was going to be a compelling selection?
A week or so before he announced he was off, the Blues went down to Christchurch and lost to the worst Crusaders in living memory. What if they'd shit the bed in the 2024 semi-final as per 2023?
I'm honestly not trying to troll you or anything.
I just don't see the logic.
And I suspect it's because you guys are looking at what his career could have been and I'm looking at what his career was.
I don't think Akira's and Hoskins' contributions in black aren't any worse than some of the guys who have been given extended runs (EB and Frizell come to mind). Coaches play favourites and always have. At the same time, both guys have been passed over by more than one AB coaching group. So perhaps both sides have elements of truth. Obviously we aren't seeing something that the coaches are. Or they are just plain wrong
I'm sorry but in what world has EB had an extended run in black?
@reprobate said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@KiwiMurph But, doesn't all that pre-suppose that Akira was going to be a compelling selection?
A week or so before he announced he was off, the Blues went down to Christchurch and lost to the worst Crusaders in living memory. What if they'd shit the bed in the 2024 semi-final as per 2023?
I'm honestly not trying to troll you or anything.
I just don't see the logic.
And I suspect it's because you guys are looking at what his career could have been and I'm looking at what his career was.
I don't think Akira's and Hoskins' contributions in black aren't any worse than some of the guys who have been given extended runs (EB and Frizell come to mind). Coaches play favourites and always have. At the same time, both guys have been passed over by more than one AB coaching group. So perhaps both sides have elements of truth. Obviously we aren't seeing something that the coaches are. Or they are just plain wrong
I'm sorry but in what world has EB had an extended run in black?
The only thing that stopped his run was the fact he's made of glass. Wallace wouldn't have got a look in if Ethan had stayed fit
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The revisionism on here is crazy... the arguments around Sotutu last year - totally fair and reasonable. But these claims around Akira Ioane are nonsensical. In his time in New Zealand, we had three different coaches, and none of them took a true liking to him.
Blaming Jase Ryan is just a lazy excuse. Akira got a good run, and played some decent footy in black between 20-22. Him losing his spot to Frizzell was a timing thing. Frizzell played the game of his life in the test which saved Foster's job, and largely backed that up (scored two tries in the RWC SF which is conveniently forgotten), and dominated the Boks at Mt Smart, so deservedly kept the shirt. Him being anonymous in the World Cup doesn't change that.
Ioane drifted from view because Finau had a superb 2023 Super campaign, and looked like our next star (like Fifita, Frizzell and Ioane before him). We only took one blindside to the World Cup and that was Frizzell. Scott Barrett was the backup 6.
If Akira was undeniable, he'd have been retained - but he wasn't. He was just another inconsistent blindside in a long line since Kaino - and there is nothing to suggest that his Super Rugby form would have all of a sudden translated to test rugby.
He played 21 tests in three years, Frizzell 33 in five years. It is a very similar ratio (half the tests in a year) because they were both inconsistent and neither could nail the shirt - just as is happening now with Samipeni Finau, and dare I say it, Simon Parker might go the same way.
It begs the question, are we asking too much of our blindside flanker?
@frugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
But these claims around Akira Ioane are nonsensical. In his time in New Zealand, we had three different coaches, and none of them took a true liking to him.
well that's just like your opinion man
Something happened between him and Hansen. I've watched a lot of rugby - he was an extraordinary talent; going back to 2018 his workrate and physicality was amazing. He had huge talent that just ... didn't kick on. And then I think got a bit worn down later in his career.
Some weird stuff iwth Late Hansen too - calling out a player publicly is an interesting choice. Some bad blood somewhere, and you can see polarisation with fans. Fact is he played some really good games in black. He also obviously didn't crush it all the time. But the perspectives remain and are absolutely embedded in people.
I'll go back to my original assessment: he and Sotutu are two of the biggest talents I have seen that didn't kick on to Test level success.
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@frugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
But these claims around Akira Ioane are nonsensical. In his time in New Zealand, we had three different coaches, and none of them took a true liking to him.
well that's just like your opinion man
Something happened between him and Hansen. I've watched a lot of rugby - he was an extraordinary talent; going back to 2018 his workrate and physicality was amazing. He had huge talent that just ... didn't kick on. And then I think got a bit worn down later in his career.
Some weird stuff iwth Late Hansen too - calling out a player publicly is an interesting choice. Some bad blood somewhere, and you can see polarisation with fans. Fact is he played some really good games in black. He also obviously didn't crush it all the time. But the perspectives remain and are absolutely embedded in people.
I'll go back to my original assessment: he and Sotutu are two of the biggest talents I have seen that didn't kick on to Test level success.
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These are circular arguments. Some people rate Ioane, others don't. The only thing that is a fact, was he was not consistent in black, and surely even his biggest supporters can admit this.
For whatever reason it didn't work in black, but to say he wasn't given a good chance isn't true, and to say it would have worked from 2024 onwards is purely hypothetical.
As I point out, outside of a short period from Liam Squire we have not had any degree of consistency out of a blindside flanker since Jerome Kaino. That comes back to the gameplan/our expectations, not who has worn the shirt.
Sotutu is a different case altogether.
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These are circular arguments. Some people rate Ioane, others don't. The only thing that is a fact, was he was not consistent in black, and surely even his biggest supporters can admit this.
For whatever reason it didn't work in black, but to say he wasn't given a good chance isn't true, and to say it would have worked from 2024 onwards is purely hypothetical.
As I point out, outside of a short period from Liam Squire we have not had any degree of consistency out of a blindside flanker since Jerome Kaino. That comes back to the gameplan/our expectations, not who has worn the shirt.
Sotutu is a different case altogether.
