Poll: Best AB coach - professional era
-
I went Henry which is the obvious choice, my main reasoning being that he was just always able to get the very best out of such a wide range of players from very different backgrounds. So many coaches struggle with that, and the team is weaker as a result. A wonderful coach and a wonderful person as well.
-
Read Gregor Paul's biography of Hansen earlier this year. He makes a pretty compelling case that Hansen is a more rounded coach than Sir Ted.
Interestingly, he makes a similar case for Keiran Read vs McCaw as captain.
Hansen was phenomenal in his first four years - I think he lost 3 and drew 1 - and built probably the best ever All Black team.
-
@MN5 said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@mariner4life said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@Kiwiwomble said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
you have a few GOATs in your first squad then you have a small advantage
Hart was handed probably the 2nd best AB team of all time and had Cullen fall in to his lap
Henry was handed a team with McCaw and Carter and those Blues outside backs.Everyone comes in with something
He did actually select him though. It's not like Glen Osborne was playing badly, far from it. He went from breakout star in 95 to being put below Cully, Jonah, Goldie and Tana for the rest of his career.
Cullen would have got fuck all caps if Fozzie or Razor were in charge during his era. Would have gone overseas after a couple of starts against Italy and Tonga.
Alright, my dislike of our current coaches approach is well documented on here, and I suspect this is a bit tongue in cheek, but no way Cully doesn't crack this team, he was a generational player. Just because the likes of Love haven't had enough gametime doesn't mean they'd just overlook a potential GOAT that is running in tries for fun at every level.
-
@nzzp said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@nonpartizan you voted for Razor! Top work - any thinking behind that?
No it was in error. My phone was on 1% and I was scrambling to vote before it died on me.
I'd say Henry for the fact that he completely changed the culture and professionalized things. Placed emphasis on how the players conducted themselves (and empowered them) off the field, which Hansen then built upon.
Off topic in a way, fwiw my favourite coach is Laurie Mains because he was such a tough and uncompromising task master and I think he really deserves a lot of credit for the success of the 96/97 ABs tbh. That's why I can't go with Hart even though that team of his was so good.
-
@Chris-B said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
Interestingly, he makes a similar case for Keiran Read vs McCaw as captain.
I know some diehard Cantabs that never rated Read as a captain, so that surprises me.
I voted for Henry but have never forgiven him for not selecting Sivivatu in the 2011 RWC squad. Guildford and then Gear FFS.
All AB coaches have had their faults.
-
@No-Quarter said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
I went Henry which is the obvious choice, my main reasoning being that he was just always able to get the very best out of such a wide range of players from very different backgrounds. So many coaches struggle with that, and the team is weaker as a result. A wonderful coach and a wonderful person as well.
i went for Henry mainly because of how he was able to turn things around after 2007, things still werent perfect and so he changed things, i think others either kept things going up that were on the up or in some cases took things that were on the up and let them dip down
-
@No-Quarter said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@MN5 said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@mariner4life said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@Kiwiwomble said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
you have a few GOATs in your first squad then you have a small advantage
Hart was handed probably the 2nd best AB team of all time and had Cullen fall in to his lap
Henry was handed a team with McCaw and Carter and those Blues outside backs.Everyone comes in with something
He did actually select him though. It's not like Glen Osborne was playing badly, far from it. He went from breakout star in 95 to being put below Cully, Jonah, Goldie and Tana for the rest of his career.
Cullen would have got fuck all caps if Fozzie or Razor were in charge during his era. Would have gone overseas after a couple of starts against Italy and Tonga.
Alright, my dislike of our current coaches approach is well documented on here, and I suspect this is a bit tongue in cheek, but no way Cully doesn't crack this team, he was a generational player. Just because the likes of Love haven't had enough gametime doesn't mean they'd just overlook a potential GOAT that is running in tries for fun at every level.
I'm not sure it is. Not completely.
Osborne had a huge 1995 and most experts were surprised when Cullen was picked ahead of him from memory ( Fuck me, nearly 30 years ago ! ) Earl Kirton being the most vocal as I recall.
It was a pretty bold punt on a guy of just 20 years old earlier that year. Osborne was way more experienced and had bided his time waiting for Timu, Howarth before he got his chance.
I think the current coaches would opt for Osborne as the incumbent, with experience and possibly as a more complete FB than Cullen in that he probably passed the ball more.
-
@MN5 I would agree that it would take Cully longer to crack the team in the current environment, that's fair, just think his talent was too undeniable for him to only get a couple of caps regardless of coach
-
@No-Quarter said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@MN5 I would agree that it would take Cully longer to crack the team in the current environment, that's fair, just think his talent was too undeniable for him to only get a couple of caps regardless of coach
I honestly don't know but I wouldn't bet on it. You're probably right
Osborne was a fine attacking player who got usurped for someone even more slippery, quick and elusive. If Cullen never existed no one would have been upset if he was the first choice for a long period.
-
@MN5 said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@No-Quarter said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@MN5 I would agree that it would take Cully longer to crack the team in the current environment, that's fair, just think his talent was too undeniable for him to only get a couple of caps regardless of coach
I honestly don't know but I wouldn't bet on it.
Osborne was a fine attacking player who got usurped for someone even more slippery, quick and elusive. If Cullen never existed no one would have been upset if he was the first choice for a long period.
Agree 100%.
Osbornes last game was at the 99 world cup after a 2 year hiatus. Granted it was only against Italy but he had a very good game with some great touches and a few try assists iirc. I've always thought it was a great shame that Osborne didn't win more caps as he was such a good, solid player,, it's just there were players who offered that just a bit more.
-
@nonpartizan said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@MN5 said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@No-Quarter said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@MN5 I would agree that it would take Cully longer to crack the team in the current environment, that's fair, just think his talent was too undeniable for him to only get a couple of caps regardless of coach
I honestly don't know but I wouldn't bet on it.
Osborne was a fine attacking player who got usurped for someone even more slippery, quick and elusive. If Cullen never existed no one would have been upset if he was the first choice for a long period.
Agree 100%.
Osbornes last game was at the 99 world cup after a 2 year hiatus. Granted it was only against Italy but he had a very good game with some great touches and a few try assists iirc. I've always thought it was a great shame that Osborne didn't win more caps as he was such a good, solid player,, it's just there were players who offered that just a bit more.
It was an era of incredible outside backs.
Jonah, Cully, Goldie and Umaga all well documented of course.
When you factor in Cashmore, Vidiri, Randle and Reihana then Osborne did very well to get as many caps as he did.
-
@African-Monkey said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@mariner4life said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
He'll get no love because he's a weird fluffybunny
But Mitch in successive weekends put 50 past South Africa and Aussie at their houses, and then won back the Bledisloe. Brought through some great ABs.
Yeah it's funny with Mitchell, because even though he lost the public, we did some insane things in 2003, and he wasn't afraid to make big calls.
Putting McDonald into midfield at RWC2003 wasn't his smartest move
-
If it wasn't for the giant Tongan announcing himself as a genuine superstar, then Oz was pretty much our best player at the 95 RWC. A far better player than the bit-part he is remembers as now, though that is understandable given the all time greats playing at the same time.
He also was the starting left wing on that 96 tour
-
@MN5 said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@No-Quarter said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@MN5 said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@mariner4life said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@Kiwiwomble said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
you have a few GOATs in your first squad then you have a small advantage
Hart was handed probably the 2nd best AB team of all time and had Cullen fall in to his lap
Henry was handed a team with McCaw and Carter and those Blues outside backs.Everyone comes in with something
He did actually select him though. It's not like Glen Osborne was playing badly, far from it. He went from breakout star in 95 to being put below Cully, Jonah, Goldie and Tana for the rest of his career.
Cullen would have got fuck all caps if Fozzie or Razor were in charge during his era. Would have gone overseas after a couple of starts against Italy and Tonga.
Alright, my dislike of our current coaches approach is well documented on here, and I suspect this is a bit tongue in cheek, but no way Cully doesn't crack this team, he was a generational player. Just because the likes of Love haven't had enough gametime doesn't mean they'd just overlook a potential GOAT that is running in tries for fun at every level.
I think the current coaches would opt for Osborne as the incumbent, with experience and possibly as a more complete FB than Cullen in that he probably passed the ball more.
id agree with that, current environment definitely feels less likely to roll the dice on someone that young
even on the fern we see lots of comments of "no need to rush him in" or "let him get a few season under his belt" when some young dude stick his head up
-
@Bovidae said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@Chris-B said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
Interestingly, he makes a similar case for Keiran Read vs McCaw as captain.
I know some diehard Cantabs that never rated Read as a captain, so that surprises me.
I voted for Henry but have never forgiven him for not selecting Sivivatu in the 2011 RWC squad. Guildford and then Gear FFS.
All AB coaches have had their faults.
Paul characterizes Richie as very old school and hierarchical - Read as more open and inclusive. Reckons that the newer players coming in under Read were a different generation and wouldn't have responded well Richie's strictures.
It's all hearsay, though. If you're not in the room it's very tough to know what's going on.
-
@canefan said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@African-Monkey said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@mariner4life said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
He'll get no love because he's a weird fluffybunny
But Mitch in successive weekends put 50 past South Africa and Aussie at their houses, and then won back the Bledisloe. Brought through some great ABs.
Yeah it's funny with Mitchell, because even though he lost the public, we did some insane things in 2003, and he wasn't afraid to make big calls.
Putting McDonald into midfield at RWC2003 wasn't his smartest move
with hindsight yes. But at the time it didn't seem that wrong.
We all thought that the 2003 semi was a formality given the form Australia showed in their quarter when compared to ours.
What became apparent was that not having Tana, we were without guys who could get us over the gain line. With the depowering of the pack, it left everything up to Jerry, and Kev right next to the ruck. The Aussies just kept knocking us over, took away all counter-attack, and we had nothing else. Smart coaching from Eddie, and in hindsight not so good from Mitch and Deans.
-
@Chris-B said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@Bovidae said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@Chris-B said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
Interestingly, he makes a similar case for Keiran Read vs McCaw as captain.
I know some diehard Cantabs that never rated Read as a captain, so that surprises me.
I voted for Henry but have never forgiven him for not selecting Sivivatu in the 2011 RWC squad. Guildford and then Gear FFS.
All AB coaches have had their faults.
Paul characterizes Richie as very old school and hierarchical - Read as more open and inclusive. Reckons that the newer players coming in under Read were a different generation and wouldn't have responded well Richie's strictures.
It's all hearsay, though. If you're not in the room it's very tough to know what's going on.
i could believe that just listening to the way each of them speak.
-
-
@mariner4life said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@canefan said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@African-Monkey said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@mariner4life said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
He'll get no love because he's a weird fluffybunny
But Mitch in successive weekends put 50 past South Africa and Aussie at their houses, and then won back the Bledisloe. Brought through some great ABs.
Yeah it's funny with Mitchell, because even though he lost the public, we did some insane things in 2003, and he wasn't afraid to make big calls.
Putting McDonald into midfield at RWC2003 wasn't his smartest move
with hindsight yes. But at the time it didn't seem that wrong.
We all thought that the 2003 semi was a formality given the form Australia showed in their quarter when compared to ours.
What became apparent was that not having Tana, we were without guys who could get us over the gain line. With the depowering of the pack, it left everything up to Jerry, and Kev right next to the ruck. The Aussies just kept knocking us over, took away all counter-attack, and we had nothing else. Smart coaching from Eddie, and in hindsight not so good from Mitch and Deans.
We'd also thumped them in the first Bledisloe - though they got a lot closer in the second.
I guess they knew what we were going to do and formulated a gameplan to stop it.
I recall Robbie said prior to that tournament (I think about not picking Mehrts) that, "Goal kicking won't be a point of difference". Uncharacteristically naive. Partially forced us to play Leon.
-
@Chris-B yeah that tournament probably made quite a good case for keeping the ole powder dry. We had telegraphed how we were going to play, we just hoped they had no answers.
