Poll: Best AB coach - professional era
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@mariner4life said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@canefan said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@African-Monkey said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@mariner4life said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
He'll get no love because he's a weird fluffybunny
But Mitch in successive weekends put 50 past South Africa and Aussie at their houses, and then won back the Bledisloe. Brought through some great ABs.
Yeah it's funny with Mitchell, because even though he lost the public, we did some insane things in 2003, and he wasn't afraid to make big calls.
Putting McDonald into midfield at RWC2003 wasn't his smartest move
with hindsight yes. But at the time it didn't seem that wrong.
We all thought that the 2003 semi was a formality given the form Australia showed in their quarter when compared to ours.
What became apparent was that not having Tana, we were without guys who could get us over the gain line. With the depowering of the pack, it left everything up to Jerry, and Kev right next to the ruck. The Aussies just kept knocking us over, took away all counter-attack, and we had nothing else. Smart coaching from Eddie, and in hindsight not so good from Mitch and Deans.
We'd also thumped them in the first Bledisloe - though they got a lot closer in the second.
I guess they knew what we were going to do and formulated a gameplan to stop it.
I recall Robbie said prior to that tournament (I think about not picking Mehrts) that, "Goal kicking won't be a point of difference". Uncharacteristically naive. Partially forced us to play Leon.
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@Chris-B yeah that tournament probably made quite a good case for keeping the ole powder dry. We had telegraphed how we were going to play, we just hoped they had no answers.
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@nzzp said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@sparky said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
Sir Ted.
By some margin. Reinvented the ABs and peeled off some real statement wins early on. 2004 France away was extraordinary - destroyed them up front and in the backs, when people (aka the Walrus) thought they'd dust us up front.
Best haka ever too that game, closely followed by first Kapa O Pango.
Both Tana.
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@No-Quarter said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@MN5 said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@mariner4life said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@Kiwiwomble said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
you have a few GOATs in your first squad then you have a small advantage
Hart was handed probably the 2nd best AB team of all time and had Cullen fall in to his lap
Henry was handed a team with McCaw and Carter and those Blues outside backs.Everyone comes in with something
He did actually select him though. It's not like Glen Osborne was playing badly, far from it. He went from breakout star in 95 to being put below Cully, Jonah, Goldie and Tana for the rest of his career.
Cullen would have got fuck all caps if Fozzie or Razor were in charge during his era. Would have gone overseas after a couple of starts against Italy and Tonga.
Alright, my dislike of our current coaches approach is well documented on here, and I suspect this is a bit tongue in cheek, but no way Cully doesn't crack this team, he was a generational player. Just because the likes of Love haven't had enough gametime doesn't mean they'd just overlook a potential GOAT that is running in tries for fun at every level.
Christian Cullen is my favourite player of all time.
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@Jet same. Part of that is I have awesome memories of my old man taking me to games at Athletic Park and then the Cake Tin, and remembering basically ALL of the excitement centered around Cully. Every time he touched the ball the crowd went up.
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@No-Quarter loved the fact you had one of the best players on the planet turning up in the NPC too!
Was out one night in Whangarei after @Nepia 's Vikings were in town, although when chatting to Bull Allen at the pub later, he said Cully (c 20 at the time) and a couple other of the young lads were not allowed out haha
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@Chris-B said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@mariner4life said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@canefan said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@African-Monkey said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@mariner4life said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
He'll get no love because he's a weird fluffybunny
But Mitch in successive weekends put 50 past South Africa and Aussie at their houses, and then won back the Bledisloe. Brought through some great ABs.
Yeah it's funny with Mitchell, because even though he lost the public, we did some insane things in 2003, and he wasn't afraid to make big calls.
Putting McDonald into midfield at RWC2003 wasn't his smartest move
with hindsight yes. But at the time it didn't seem that wrong.
We all thought that the 2003 semi was a formality given the form Australia showed in their quarter when compared to ours.
What became apparent was that not having Tana, we were without guys who could get us over the gain line. With the depowering of the pack, it left everything up to Jerry, and Kev right next to the ruck. The Aussies just kept knocking us over, took away all counter-attack, and we had nothing else. Smart coaching from Eddie, and in hindsight not so good from Mitch and Deans.
We'd also thumped them in the first Bledisloe - though they got a lot closer in the second.
I guess they knew what we were going to do and formulated a gameplan to stop it.
I recall Robbie said prior to that tournament (I think about not picking Mehrts) that, "Goal kicking won't be a point of difference". Uncharacteristically naive. Partially forced us to play Leon.
.....and Sean Fitzpatrick made it clear he wouldn't choose a single Australian in a combined 15. Given there were a few legends in that Oz team that was pretty rough. Stupid too.
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That 2003 Aussie team was a shit team.
But Aussies are very good at finding a "way" (in all sports) even when they are shit.
They still go orn and orn and orn about johnny f'n wilkinson; fuck they were lucky to even be in that final.
Only cause we were even more shit, Mitchell (and Shaw) really did fuck it up.
The poms were still my favs that year tho. The only time I had another team as favs between 1987 and 2015.
Led by that great King Country lock MJ. -
@MN5 https://stats.allblacks.com/match-centre/report/All-Blacks-Australia-15-November-2003
Gregan, Larkham and Mortlock pretty clearly in my mind over Marshall, Carlos and Leon.
George Smith > Rueben, but maybe not as a six.
Oz locks definitely competitive.
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@Chris-B said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@MN5 https://stats.allblacks.com/match-centre/report/All-Blacks-Australia-15-November-2003
Gregan, Larkham and Mortlock pretty clearly in my mind over Marshall, Carlos and Leon.
George Smith > Rueben, but maybe not as a six.
Oz locks definitely competitive.
You'd go Tuqiri on one of the wings too.
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@Jet said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
Christian Cullen is my favourite player of all time.
He's not my favorite of all time, I maybe can go back a bit further than you, to a very similar player.
But he's right there.
Barry Sanders is the only stepper I rate higher than him all-time. -
Definitely not Hart; although he'd win the poll if it was just about PR.
Hart would be first in that one; and Mitchell last.Assuming it's just the head coach role; so not Smith, to short.
The other four I sort of consider as one and the same; in succession.
Henry started it, set it all up; and Hansen kept it going.
All doing pretty much the same thing.
The problem being, the operational environment has been changing.
And none of the last three seem to have been able to make the correct adjustments.Hansen did run out of ideas towards the end; when he really did need to change things up.
I found that very disappointing, and expected more from someone who was in the primo rugby coaching role on the planet.And the next two are sort of bumbling along in the same vein as the late Hansen.
So it has to be Henry.
Started with a bit of a mess, and left it as a power house. -
@Chris-B said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@Bovidae said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@Chris-B said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
Interestingly, he makes a similar case for Keiran Read vs McCaw as captain.
I know some diehard Cantabs that never rated Read as a captain, so that surprises me.
I voted for Henry but have never forgiven him for not selecting Sivivatu in the 2011 RWC squad. Guildford and then Gear FFS.
All AB coaches have had their faults.
Paul characterizes Richie as very old school and hierarchical - Read as more open and inclusive. Reckons that the newer players coming in under Read were a different generation and wouldn't have responded well Richie's strictures.
It's all hearsay, though. If you're not in the room it's very tough to know what's going on.
One of the most incredible things I remember hearing about Richie was how in Reads book he says despite rooming with him and playing with him for years Richie would never really get deeply into personal matters or talk about a lot of non rugby subject matters with him. "Outside of the team our relationship was non-existent" is a direct quote. Richie was just about business and did not want to clutter up his mind with things that were as Read puts it "superfluous to him".
Richies ability to remain task and objective/goal.oriented must be second to none but I can see how that type of leadership must be tough to be under if you want to build a relationship and feel connected with your skipper.
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Went for Mitchell.
Dark days between 98-02 (signs started in 97 too) and he IMO got it back on track and started to build the foundation of our success for the years ahead.
Picked some very young players too that had talent but still had big question marks.
03 RWC, outcome was unfortunate but an experienced Aussie team had a night.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
signs started in 97 too
we didn't know it at the time, but that great team was finished at half time in the Carisbrook (?) bledisloe in 97
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@mariner4life said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
He'll get no love because he's a weird fluffybunny
But Mitch in successive weekends put 50 past South Africa and Aussie at their houses, and then won back the Bledisloe. Brought through some great ABs.
Less weird as he ages it seems.
Heard him on Devlin's show a few weeks back. Seems mature and less management speaky.
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@nonpartizan said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@Chris-B said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@Bovidae said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@Chris-B said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
Interestingly, he makes a similar case for Keiran Read vs McCaw as captain.
I know some diehard Cantabs that never rated Read as a captain, so that surprises me.
I voted for Henry but have never forgiven him for not selecting Sivivatu in the 2011 RWC squad. Guildford and then Gear FFS.
All AB coaches have had their faults.
Paul characterizes Richie as very old school and hierarchical - Read as more open and inclusive. Reckons that the newer players coming in under Read were a different generation and wouldn't have responded well Richie's strictures.
It's all hearsay, though. If you're not in the room it's very tough to know what's going on.
One of the most incredible things I remember hearing about Richie was how in Reads book he says despite rooming with him and playing with him for years Richie would never really get deeply into personal matters or talk about a lot of non rugby subject matters with him. "Outside of the team our relationship was non-existent" is a direct quote. Richie was just about business and did not want to clutter up his mind with things that were as Read puts it "superfluous to him".
Richies ability to remain task and objective/goal.oriented must be second to none but I can see how that type of leadership must be tough to be under if you want to build a relationship and feel connected with your skipper.
I can't lay my hands on Corey Jane's book right now, but he had an amusing story about how, as a newbie, he somehow found himself alone in the breakfast room with McCaw and his awkward effort at trying to make conversation.
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@Chris-B said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@nonpartizan said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@Chris-B said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@Bovidae said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
@Chris-B said in Poll: Best AB coach - professional era:
Interestingly, he makes a similar case for Keiran Read vs McCaw as captain.
I know some diehard Cantabs that never rated Read as a captain, so that surprises me.
I voted for Henry but have never forgiven him for not selecting Sivivatu in the 2011 RWC squad. Guildford and then Gear FFS.
All AB coaches have had their faults.
Paul characterizes Richie as very old school and hierarchical - Read as more open and inclusive. Reckons that the newer players coming in under Read were a different generation and wouldn't have responded well Richie's strictures.
It's all hearsay, though. If you're not in the room it's very tough to know what's going on.
One of the most incredible things I remember hearing about Richie was how in Reads book he says despite rooming with him and playing with him for years Richie would never really get deeply into personal matters or talk about a lot of non rugby subject matters with him. "Outside of the team our relationship was non-existent" is a direct quote. Richie was just about business and did not want to clutter up his mind with things that were as Read puts it "superfluous to him".
Richies ability to remain task and objective/goal.oriented must be second to none but I can see how that type of leadership must be tough to be under if you want to build a relationship and feel connected with your skipper.
I can't lay my hands on Corey Jane's book right now, but he had an amusing story about how, as a newbie, he somehow found himself alone in the breakfast room with McCaw and his awkward effort at trying to make conversation.
Jane was a character......McCaw ? well, he was a great player.
