Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2
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@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
what are the chances the red card gets rescinded?
Yeah, people trying to justify a straight up shoulder with tucked elbow by saying he wasn't expecting it. Obviously the same people who line up to buy something at the shop then when they get to the counter dig around their handbag for half an hour for their wallet because they weren't expecting to have to pay.
A seasoned professional in one of the best teams in the world wasn't expecting to have to tackle whilst advancing in the defensive line. Give me a break.
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@voodoo said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
On the BB high shot / red card, I couldn't believe that Roigard threw that pass at all - even if it he had managed to not throw it forward, how the fuck is our gameplan to have Beauden taking crash ball off 9 into forwards?!!
And I'm sure it's been mentioned ad nauseum in here, but how Beauden didn't have to do an HIA, I'll never know. The HIA process was a debacle all game.
I thought BB got crashed into/beaten up at least 3 times and was amazed they left him on the pitch so long. I really don't think they trust DMac to run the cutter.
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@nostrildamus said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@Dan54 said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
I genuinely don't know how you do that mate!
Not ideal-I didn't have live access for this game and following the match thread was like a game-who are they complaining about, what is the score, are they talking about something now or 5 minutes ago?
But apart from playing who's called whom a fluffybunny games, yes, much rather have watched it at the time. But I've noticed for AB games when I watch it after hearing the score I notice things more than when I'm watching it as it plays-the blinkers of fandom I guess.
Do agree about it watching later etc you do see more. I know hoe tense I get when watching and emotions can make you see things differently/properly?
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@voodoo said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
And I'm sure it's been mentioned ad nauseum in here, but how Beauden didn't have to do an HIA, I'll never know. The HIA process was a debacle all game.
Yeah I've been banging that drum for years.
Clear head contact, yet no HIA? If it is enough of a contact to warrant a card and a red review, then it should also warrant a check up on his well being...
But I also hate cards, should only be for filth.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@Nepia said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@nostrildamus said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
Then again, Roigard was being a right fluffybunny to JGP.
Yeah, just give him the fucking ball when it's their scrum rather than being a dickhead.
Roigard has been getting on my nerves a bit in the last few games. There's this kind of stuff along with the over the top celebrations after scoring tries and even acting up before putting the ball down. Just as well he's so useful.
I'm perfectly fine with a bit of gamesmanship from him. Dollars to donuts JGP would do exactly the same - it's good to get under his skin because he's so damn good. If JGP has an average game, Ireland are a different beast.
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@canefan said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@No-Quarter said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@Richie8-7 not sure anyone is asking for any players to be sacked, but the coaches... can you name a worse AB performance then that home loss to SA? As far as I can tell that's the worst performance of all time, so "worst AB team in last 50 years" isn't exactly over-egging it after that. 43 fucking 10 with players giving up in the final 10. On the back of that performance, and the shit show we served up for the first 60 minutes of that match before Ireland shat the bed, yeah people are going to be harshly critical. Unless we just accept mediocrity in the ABs these days, maybe we should?
The only player who is getting almost universal calls from TSF to be dropped is BB
Not to be taken as an argument for his retention, but the try that killed Irish hopes was Beaudy's evasion, isolation of the Irish rush defender and well timed pass to DMac (who hit the hole perfectly).
I'm sick of reading about his general play kicking as it's obviously the game plan to prevent the rush defence (as DMac does the same when starting). It's the obvious point his legs aren't what they were that's the problem.
Damien has a nicer pass on him, but with his predilection for flat passes, more likely to give an intercept.
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@nzzp said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
what are the chances the red card gets rescinded?
Should be zero.
These things are both true:
The WR framework means that is a Red Card.
The contact was soft and feels more yellow-worthy.
But really, if BB was knocked out would we be saying yellow? Head into shoulder can have really bad outcomes.
Don't go on
TwitterX as every Irishman has suddenly determined that an illegal tackle that doesn't maim an opponent should be viewed on the effect. I don't know what the potato famine is for quelle surprise, but insert it here. -
@reprobate said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
I wasn't surprised the card turned red, but I think it's really harsh. The Irish guy didn't think he was making a tackle at all. BB didn't think he was getting the ball. The Irish captain was right, the pass was forward, which put them both in a collision they weren't prepared for. It was accidental, and I'd be much happier if that was yellow.
I'd be happy with a penalty but on the guidelines the TMO got that perfectly correct. No attempt to tackle on a flat pass, which even if Beauden wasn't expecting he still caught it. I also don't consider it to have been obviously forward.
And we're talking about the same country whose supporters howled at every perceived transgression, so they got what they were asking for. Fuck 'em.
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@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@voodoo said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
And I'm sure it's been mentioned ad nauseum in here, but how Beauden didn't have to do an HIA, I'll never know. The HIA process was a debacle all game.
Yeah I've been banging that drum for years.
Clear head contact, yet no HIA? If it is enough of a contact to warrant a card and a red review, then it should also warrant a check up on his well being...
But I also hate cards, should only be for filth.
BB was perfectly fine. Doesn't every veteran first five put in a pop gun kick to the middle of the field when taking a PK for touch?
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@reprobate said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
I've only just got around to watching this. To those who are trying to be positive about the margin, well, that's an Irish team in decline with an early red card, and they've had to chance their arm late.
Worst lineout performance from the usually rock-solid Taylor I can recall. New combinations not working (which fucking gets my dander up when Caleb Clarke says they've just basically had the week off!), but also not-straights.
Beauden Barrett is still being defended and picked when he is making mistakes that would see you dropped at schoolboy level. Great little pop pass to a beautiful line from McKenzie for the try, but the rest was pretty much slop.
The Irish were really mediocre. Poor kicking (apart from the excellent JGP), really poor lineout, poor scrum, lots of knock-ons (that's you James Lowe ya cockhead).
I wasn't surprised the card turned red, but I think it's really harsh. The Irish guy didn't think he was making a tackle at all. BB didn't think he was getting the ball. The Irish captain was right, the pass was forward, which put them both in a collision they weren't prepared for. It was accidental, and I'd be much happier if that was yellow.
One last comment - the whinging on here from NZers, and the sense of victimhood has become a goddamned fucking disgrace. Especially when combined with constantly calling the Irish out for exactly that. I know it's frustrating that we're a bit shit, but harden up you bunch of fluffybunnies, you're embarrassing.Spot on.
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@Bones said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
What whinging and victimhood are we talking about? I must have missed it.
Perhaps it's a convenient way to suggest we've abandoned the moral high ground after countless examples showing there's no benefit to turning the other cheek.
Perhaps if we're as bad as every other nation WR will change the law interpretation and application.
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@antipodean said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@canefan said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@No-Quarter said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@Richie8-7 not sure anyone is asking for any players to be sacked, but the coaches... can you name a worse AB performance then that home loss to SA? As far as I can tell that's the worst performance of all time, so "worst AB team in last 50 years" isn't exactly over-egging it after that. 43 fucking 10 with players giving up in the final 10. On the back of that performance, and the shit show we served up for the first 60 minutes of that match before Ireland shat the bed, yeah people are going to be harshly critical. Unless we just accept mediocrity in the ABs these days, maybe we should?
The only player who is getting almost universal calls from TSF to be dropped is BB
Not to be taken as an argument for his retention, but the try that killed Irish hopes was Beaudy's evasion, isolation of the Irish rush defender and well timed pass to DMac (who hit the hole perfectly).
I'm sick of reading about his general play kicking as it's obviously the game plan to prevent the rush defence (as DMac does the same when starting). It's the obvious point his legs aren't what they were that's the problem.
Damien has a nicer pass on him, but with his predilection for flat passes, more likely to give an intercept.
That was a lovely try that showcased the strengths of both men. If I was the coach and BB wasn't doing what I asked of him, I would drop him. So clearly he is doing what he is told, and apparently better at it than DMac. Which points the fault at Razor
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@antipodean said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@Bones said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
What whinging and victimhood are we talking about? I must have missed it.
Perhaps it's a convenient way to suggest we've abandoned the moral high ground after countless examples showing there's no benefit to turning the other cheek.
Perhaps if we're as bad as every other nation WR will change the law interpretation and application.
I know it's unusual for me, but that was a genuine question!
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@Richie8-7 said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
yes, it was horrific. And pretty shocking how badly they threw in the towel. I don't think we're as bad as that result though
Horrific is an understatement.
I've been watching since '71 and never, ever seen an AB team simply give up like that. It was the worst AB performance I've ever seen by some margin. And the worrying thing is too many people simply shrugged their shoulders.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@Richie8-7 said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
yes, it was horrific. And pretty shocking how badly they threw in the towel. I don't think we're as bad as that result though
Horrific is an understatement.
I've been watching since '71 and never, ever seen an AB team simply give up like that. It was the worst AB performance I've ever seen by some margin. And the worrying thing is too may people simply shrugged their shoulders.
Old ABs used to talk about the fear of losing and how it drove them. It doesn't look like the new generation hold any such fear
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@Snowy said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@frugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
Went under the radar, but Ratima got about three minutes. I get they rate Roigard, but the All Blacks aren't in a great place when a halfback has to go 77 minutes when, what is in theory our #2 halfback is on the bench.
Turned out to be a pretty good call to leave him on ay?
Yeah, sure you play what is front of you. If the plan is to change at 65/70 mins which is probably the norm, then thats all good, but why stick to a pre game plan if there is no need?
Roigard was clearly good to keep playing, and proved it so. I mean, he had 12 minutes in the first half to chill out whilst the modern rugby rules were put in play so would have been less drained than expected.
What's playing out in front of you, should be of equal importance, if not more, to what was in the pre-arranged plan.
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@Bones said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
What whinging and victimhood are we talking about? I must have missed it.
You are probably right on the victimhood part, but certainly not the whinging.
I didn't watch it live and knew the result when I caught the replay so my emotions were much more in check than people watching live. If you read through the thread, the negativity for the first hour was over whelming, which is understandable, but even when we scored it was still pretty negative. Comments seemed more about Ardie adding to his highlight reel than us actually building back into the game.
Many a legendary AB team has been down/level with the opposition through 60 mins before pulling away in the last 20. I'd almost say that is our standard game. Thats exactly what happened here, but instead of embracing it, TSF seems to be far more negative about the whole thing. I'm not saying the headless and clueless chicken shit we saw is excusable, it's not and deserves the pitchforks.
As I said, emotions were in check when I watched, so perhaps I'm being a little obtuse, but ultimately, we levelled with a top tier nation for 60 mins then pulled away in the last 20 for a 4 try to 1 drubbing. That's All Black rugby.
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@MajorRage ohhhh, I read your post as saying there was over the top whinging about Ireland/ref.
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Rewatched the 1st half. We really get very little out of our loose forwards. Despite being a man up for 20 mins, they were hardly hitting rucks. Let alone making aggressive tackles. It looks like Tupaea, Faingaʻanuku, and even Clarke had better breakdown technique. Savea is absolutely not a 7.
I think that the MOTM votes were accurate reflections of performances:
