Scotland v All Blacks
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
@Bones said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew perfect bench player.
Think he's more value starting on the wing. We have enough utility players to cover 15.
Nah, bring him on when the opposition are tiring, there's more space and his
selfish playbasic errors are less costly. -
@No-Quarter said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
defensive mistakes, poor passing
Yes to the second, no to the first, in my view.
I think it's harsh to portray Jordan as a poor defensive fullback when he made some excellent reads in defence against the Irish. One in the first half, stopping an overlap on the edge by jumping out the line and tackling Crowley, ball and all. And one in the second half when he anticipated Crowley's grubber in behind. A lot of players wouldn't have reacted as quickly there, and that would've become a real scoring opportunity.
The passing, and the turnovers in general with Jordan, are however a real issue. There were multiple opportunities out wide against Ireland - potential outside break for Clarke, potential carry with space in opposition 22 for Tupaea - that Jordan messed up due to poor skill execution.
That said, I don't think you fix the latter by just putting him on the wing. He'll still be expected to roam as a winger, as his biggest strength is his ability to both spot and take a gap. He just needs to fix his passing and decision-making. For example, there was no reason for the pump fake before the Clarke pass, O'Brien was already turning inwards so a simple draw and pass was more than sufficient. I still have hope that he can fix his decision-making - it has improved over the last few seasons - but Saturday's Test against Ireland was bad. It's not a performance he can afford again on this tour.
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@antipodean said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
@nostrildamus said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
Interesting question. I'd suspect Beauden is a little banged up. Lakai-not sure about, he worked hard, but I just don't really see him as nailing down that 8 position. I can see Sititi starting at 6 or 8 and Parker out of the 23, thought he lacked presence and impact.
Lakai isn't an 8. He should be selected at 7 or nothing.
I wouldn't mind seeing Finau get a chance to put a shot on Russell. Let him sit deep in the pocket for 60mins!
Not a bad shout that.
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@Mauss said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
@No-Quarter said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
defensive mistakes, poor passing
Yes to the second, no to the first, in my view.
I think it's harsh to portray Jordan as a poor defensive fullback when he made some excellent reads in defence against the Irish. One in the first half, stopping an overlap on the edge by jumping out the line and tackling Crowley, ball and all. And one in the second half when he anticipated Crowley's grubber in behind. A lot of players wouldn't have reacted as quickly there, and that would've become a real scoring opportunity.
The passing, and the turnovers in general with Jordan, are however a real issue. There were multiple opportunities out wide against Ireland - potential outside break for Clarke, potential carry with space in opposition 22 for Tupaea - that Jordan messed up due to poor skill execution.
That said, I don't think you fix the latter by just putting him on the wing. He'll still be expected to roam as a winger, as his biggest strength is his ability to both spot and take a gap. He just needs to fix his passing and decision-making. For example, there was no reason for the pump fake before the Clarke pass, O'Brien was already turning inwards so a simple draw and pass was more than sufficient. I still have hope that he can fix his decision-making - it has improved over the last few seasons - but Saturday's Test against Ireland was bad. It's not a performance he can afford again on this tour.
After watching J Barrett play fullback at Leinster, I really think J Barrett 15, Jordan 14 gives us the best combo. Barrett is wasted at 12 despite often being the best back on the pitch
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Any update on Scooter & Jordie?
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@jimmyb said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
After watching J Barrett play fullback at Leinster, I really think J Barrett 15, Jordan 14 gives us the best combo. Barrett is wasted at 12 despite often being the best back on the pitch
With Tupaea's form and the proven effectiveness of big midfield carriers in recent Tests (Tupaea, Fainga'anuku and Clarke), I think it's worth a shot.
Added to that, if you have Tupaea and Fainga'anuku in midfield, you need a better playmaker at fullback than what Jordan (currently) presents, so that would be either Jordie or McKenzie.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
If we are building around Ardie then someone like Jacobson to me is the perfect sort of player to have in the mix.
It's not that I disagree but I'm interested in hearing what it is specifically that you like about Jacobson's game and how it complements a player like Savea. Would Jacobson go at number 8 then?
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@gt12 said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
He’s giving Squire Vibes a bit at the moment, as tbf, does Finau. Might be able to bully around against the less physical packs but might lack the edge against really physical sides.
In Parker’s defense, unlike the Chiefs, the ABs don’t have a clean-up specialist and don’t seem to take advantage of his strengths. He’s anonymous at LO time, and hardly used with ball in hand.
I’m becoming less and less convinced about Ryan - I cant think of a player, maybe Newell excepted, who actually looks the same or better at this level - that’s been a trademark of great ABs, as the level of play goes up, their performance rises alongside.
Despite his scoring achievements, for that reason I’m not prepared to say that Jordan is nearing ‘great AB’ status. Jordie can get there, maybe Clark if he stays healthy, Taylor might be the only other forward, but I don’t know if he is ‘better’.
Definitely none of the loosies are playing at ‘great’ level.
Beauden was a great AB, and Dmac will never get the chance.
I think Ryan has done an excellent job with tight five.
But aren't the loosies in Ray's purview?
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@ACT-Crusader said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
@gt12 said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
@gt12 said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
Big difference between Crusaders side to side and Chiefs style fast ruck rugby. I look at these guys are being used and I wonder if the roles suits the skill set. Sounds like a good question for @Mauss
Part and parcel with being an AB. I look at a guy like Rodders and as an AB he played very different to how he played for the Canes and probably what was expected. And to me he was a class number 8 in his mix with Jerry and McCaw.
If we are building around Ardie then someone like Jacobson to me is the perfect sort of player to have in the mix.
Then we are basically getting to the same thing, even though I fundamentally disagree with the premise.
Parker is not a Jacobson like player, and would likely be a much better fit alongside Savea if we paired him with a Jacobson. I’m not sure Lakai is that guy but we’ll find out I guess.
I like Lakai, but it’s Lakai or Savea, not both. And I would put Sititi in that camp too. We can get away with one starting and one on the bench.
I think we might see a couple of changes beyond injuries for this Scotland test.
I maybe imagining things, but to date I had Lakai down as more of a hitter/cleaner than either of RD and Wally, whom I see as 'loose' loosies. I'd quite like to see Lakai get a run at 7 on this tour.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
@Bones said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew perfect bench player.
Think he's more value starting on the wing. We have enough utility players to cover 15.
On Saturday he showed that he's perfected the pass to no one.
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@pakman said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
@Bones said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew perfect bench player.
Think he's more value starting on the wing. We have enough utility players to cover 15.
On Saturday he showed that he's perfected the pass to no one.
I guess at least now he's trying to link? Or pretending to...
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
Any update on Scooter & Jordie?
Both out Beehre called into ABs
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I'd go with something like:
- De Groot 2. Taylor 3. Newell 4. Holland 5. Lord 6. Parker 7. Savea 8. Sititi 9. Roigard 10. DMac 11. Clarke 12. Tupaea 13. Leicester F 14. Jordan 15. Love
Taukei'aho , Williams, Tosi, Darry, Lakai, Ratima,
B. Barrett, R.Ioane -
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@nzzp said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
lose 10 and 12
call in a utility lock/6
<imagine a gif here>
<Chef's kiss ferning>
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@pakman said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
@gt12 said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
@gt12 said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
Big difference between Crusaders side to side and Chiefs style fast ruck rugby. I look at these guys are being used and I wonder if the roles suits the skill set. Sounds like a good question for @Mauss
Part and parcel with being an AB. I look at a guy like Rodders and as an AB he played very different to how he played for the Canes and probably what was expected. And to me he was a class number 8 in his mix with Jerry and McCaw.
If we are building around Ardie then someone like Jacobson to me is the perfect sort of player to have in the mix.
Then we are basically getting to the same thing, even though I fundamentally disagree with the premise.
Parker is not a Jacobson like player, and would likely be a much better fit alongside Savea if we paired him with a Jacobson. I’m not sure Lakai is that guy but we’ll find out I guess.
I like Lakai, but it’s Lakai or Savea, not both. And I would put Sititi in that camp too. We can get away with one starting and one on the bench.
I think we might see a couple of changes beyond injuries for this Scotland test.
I maybe imagining things, but to date I had Lakai down as more of a hitter/cleaner than either of RD and Wally, whom I see as 'loose' loosies. I'd quite like to see Lakai get a run at 7 on this tour.
IIRC Mauss had that a couple of games ago. So it's probably correct
