Scotland v All Blacks
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@MiketheSnow said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
Typically the rock in the scrum is the TH prop
Presumably the bigger of the two locks would be behind the LH prop to balance the scrum and the shove
Apparently Brad Thorn was bloody good at this facet of the game which for an ex league player is pretty damn impressive.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
My two cents. QT/RI/Big Lester will be centre pairing with one of the latter 2 on the bench. No other changes from 9-15
Forwards the same as last week with Lord partnering Dutch. Maybe Wallace instead of Lakai or Parker.
Seems to be a consistent theme
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@Dan54 said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
@Bones said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
@Dan54 said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
I would not be averse to Reiko at 13 , but I thik like it r not ALB will be in mix to cover 12.
Come on man, it took more effort to type that incorrectly than to type it correctly.
Lol see what happens even worse when I piss around on phone. The only win is it seems to of got your school teacher vibe going.
*have
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@booboo said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
@pakman said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
tighthead lock
Am I old or ignorant, or, more likely, both?
Been playing and watching rugby since the mid-1970s, but reference to TH lock and LH lock is not something I recall from the day.
I seem to remember locks maybe having a preference which side they bind on, and that even changing depending on who they were locking with (body shapes differ).
And then it was their job to bind tightly, squeeze it up and push like hell. Subtlety be damned.
If someone can explain the nuances of TH vs LH locks that would be appreciated.
Not sure if this requires a new topic. Depends how many answers I get.
Typically the more powerful lock binds behind tighthead prop. Those two are the key drivers at scrum time.
In recent years it’s become common for the taller and lighter lock to specialise at 5 in lineout and bind behind loosehead prop.
However, Scott Barrett is a top LH scrummager and jumps at 4.
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@MiketheSnow said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
Typically the rock in the scrum is the TH prop
Presumably the bigger of the two locks would be behind the LH prop to balance the scrum and the shove
I kinda used to define the lock by where they jumped.
More robust, maybe slightly shorter lock battling it out at 2, more rangy perhaps more athletic lock at 4.
Admittedly pre-lifting and different ... err ... attributes were required in the lineout.
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@booboo said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
@MiketheSnow said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
Typically the rock in the scrum is the TH prop
Presumably the bigger of the two locks would be behind the LH prop to balance the scrum and the shove
I kinda used to define the lock by where they jumped.
More robust, maybe slightly shorter lock battling it out at 2, more rangy perhaps more athletic lock at 4.
Admittedly pre-lifting and different ... err ... attributes were required in the lineout.
There’s more science in scrummaging nowadays. Frank Oliver had old fashioned ‘skills’ and today would be a TH lock, who jumped at front of lineout.
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@booboo said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
@pakman said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
tighthead lock
Am I old or ignorant, or, more likely, both?
You're on the Fern.
Been playing and watching rugby since the mid-1970s, but reference to TH lock and LH lock is not something I recall from the day.
If someone can explain the nuances of TH vs LH locks that would be appreciated.
Reading Mike's answer is interesting. My suspicion is it varies between countries and even coaches,
In SA and NZ (I think?) the taller lineout focussed lock is normally at 5 (some believe their height helps prevent wheeling in the scrum) and the power./grunt more open running and tackling lock is at 4 (Like Matfield at 5 and Botha at 4; Whitelock at 5 and Rettalick at 4). Not sure about Australia, Skelton has played both 4 and 5; Eales normally played I believe at 5?
BUT I've seen articles saying the powerful lock (the grunt) is at 5 so I wonder if there is a NH/SH difference?And even in the ABs it seems to vary:
I thought Scott Barrett has played 4 more often for the ABs but it seems he has started at 5 more (perhaps he has changed to 4 more often lately); Tupou Vaa'i starts more often at 5.https://stats.allblacks.com/all-players/profile/Tupou-Vaa'i-AB-1188
Scott Barrett
Explore the complete profile of Scott Barrett, featuring career stats, a player bio, and a full list of all matches played. Discover key achievements, total points, tries, and more from this legendary player!
Perhaps if someone did a quick comparison of famous locking pairs we could see if there is a general principle or national variance?
Given there seems to be a lot of variety where the powerful and athletic lock are played, calling them loosehead or tighthead could be confusing, as LHL seems to be behind LHL prop and THL behind TH prop but LHL gives (to me at least) the impression they are the athletic one and THL the powerful one.
Does that help or confuse things more?
I'm not a lock and happy to be proven wrong, still working it out myself!Edit: I think I need more coffee.
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Where the locks pack in a scrum is often dependent on who the combination is, and what their relative strengths are. Take the AB locks:
Retallick (TH), Whitelock (LH)
Whitelock (TH), Barrett (LH)
Vaa'i (TH), Barrett (LH)But when Retallick was with the Chiefs, Vaa'i switched to LH. I'd have to check but Holland has been used on the LH side in the scrum with Barrett moving to TH. Yeah, confusing.
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@MN5 said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
@African-Monkey said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
@Bovidae said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
Seriously, who else can provide 2nd 5 cover? At least until Havili joins the squad.
Fai'anganuku.
Maybe not against the big guns but they're only playing Scotland this week luckily.
Oh yeah, dont think they'll do it, but i think he could make a very good 12.
Would like to see him used there for the Crusaders even if it's just for a look.
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@African-Monkey said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
@MN5 said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
@African-Monkey said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
@Bovidae said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
Seriously, who else can provide 2nd 5 cover? At least until Havili joins the squad.
Fai'anganuku.
Maybe not against the big guns but they're only playing Scotland this week luckily.
Oh yeah, dont think they'll do it, but i think he could make a very good 12.
Would like to see him used there for the Crusaders even if it's just for a look.
…..and deny Havili and Macleod game time !?!?
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@Bovidae said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
Where the locks pack in a scrum is often dependent on who the combination is, and what their relative strengths are. Take the AB locks:
Retallick (TH), Whitelock (LH)
Whitelock (TH), Barrett (LH)
Vaa'i (TH), Barrett (LH)But when Retallick was with the Chiefs, Vaa'i switched to LH. I'd have to check but Holland has been used on the LH side in the scrum with Barrett moving to TH. Yeah, confusing.
I think teams have a pecking order in terms of scrummaging, with best on TH side.
So for ABs this year Patty T/Vaa’i/Scooter/Lord/Holland.
So Tupou would be LH when packing down with Patty T or TH when with Lord or Holland.
Confusing thing was that in Boks 1 Scooter was at TH and Vaa’i at LH, but in a Boks 2 they swapped around which worked better. -
I'd go for Leicester 12 Quinn 13 with Rieko on the bench for insurance if we are struggling defensively. E.g. could move Leicester to wing and finish with 12 Quinn 13 Rieko if we needed to.
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@No-Quarter said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
I'd go for Leicester 12 Quinn 13 with Rieko on the bench for insurance if we are struggling defensively. E.g. could move Leicester to wing and finish with 12 Quinn 13 Rieko if we needed to.
They could do the old left and right centres like Carling and Guscott used to do. Whichever way you look at it the defence has a hard runner coming at them.
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@MN5 said in Scotland Vs All Blacks, 8th November 2025:
Apparently Brad Thorn was bloody good at this facet of the game
He was.
And I saw a comment he made that rugby league players had no conception of the amount of power that was generated in a rugby union scrum. -
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@hikastags cheers stags, if true what's the point of Luke Jacobson being included in the ABs this year?
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Thats some small loosies
