All Blacks 2025
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@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2025:
I would love to see Etene Nanai Seturo and Caleb Tangitau on the flanks
ENS with his footwork and size would bring something completely different not to mention a tremendous left boot which is weapon and Tangitau with his speed would compliment a slick back 3 with Jordon
Leicester Fainga’nuku at 13 and Quinn Tupaea at 12 and Ruben Love at 10 ,Roigard at 9
That would be my dream backline ,Jordie Barrett ,D Mac and Dylan Pledger as reserve cover
I know Ruben Love’s selection at 10 would turn a few heads ,but imo i believe his future lies at 10I'd put ENS at the back, he's got better basic skills than Jordan, who can go back to the wing.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
to be fair I thought the stuff they didn't copy was better, calling out Australia for being shit on reddit for example would have doubled their views and reactions lol
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sheer cowardice
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To be honest, I'm sort of OK with it, the more of the rugby public that realise how diabolical things have gotten under this coaching group, the more pressure NZR will be under to move them on before the next RWC. Doing Gods work @mariner4life
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
Should probably be Taylor
disagree, Taylor plays with a bit of an edge that i don't want to see dulled.
And that’s why I didn’t want Scooter to be AB captain either. He was playing damn well and with a great level of confrontation to close out 2023.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
To be honest, I'm sort of OK with it, the more of the rugby public that realise how diabolical things have gotten under this coaching group, the more pressure NZR will be under to move them on before the next RWC. Doing Gods work @mariner4life
Doesn't matter what we think or want, there is no way this group will be moved on. Realistically not sure any of us should want that, would cause more problems than it would fix.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
To be honest, I'm sort of OK with it, the more of the rugby public that realise how diabolical things have gotten under this coaching group, the more pressure NZR will be under to move them on before the next RWC. Doing Gods work @mariner4life
Doesn't matter what we think or want, there is no way this group will be moved on. Realistically not sure any of us should want that, would cause more problems than it would fix.
Wrong Dan. Just like Foster lost all his assistants after narrowly missing getting fired for poor performance, Razor needs to be put on notice by losing all his assistants except Ryan
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@Dan54 the only.problem it might cause, it will be who to fill the roles vacated, that will be tough given the dire situation now and from the past few years.
Something has to change otherwise we are rewarding mediocrity.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
To be honest, I'm sort of OK with it, the more of the rugby public that realise how diabolical things have gotten under this coaching group, the more pressure NZR will be under to move them on before the next RWC. Doing Gods work @mariner4life
Doesn't matter what we think or want, there is no way this group will be moved on. Realistically not sure any of us should want that, would cause more problems than it would fix.
Wrong Dan. Just like Foster lost all his assistants after narrowly missing getting fired for poor performance, Razor needs to be put on notice by losing all his assistants except Ryan
I disagree ... Tubby Ryan can fuck off too.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
To be honest, I'm sort of OK with it, the more of the rugby public that realise how diabolical things have gotten under this coaching group, the more pressure NZR will be under to move them on before the next RWC. Doing Gods work @mariner4life
Doesn't matter what we think or want, there is no way this group will be moved on. Realistically not sure any of us should want that, would cause more problems than it would fix.
Wrong Dan. Just like Foster lost all his assistants after narrowly missing getting fired for poor performance, Razor needs to be put on notice by losing all his assistants except Ryan
I disagree ... Tubby Ryan can fuck off too.
If he was the one to shut out Hoskins? Yeah fuck off mate
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Just been sent that article again where McCaw waffles on about development and being ready, citing Parker I think?
The more I think about it, the more it irks me. Who the fuck was available and ready then? Is he saying Paps and Sotutu should be there?
Proctor looked ready, Kirifi looked ready. Look where that got us?
I think the most annoying thing is him trying to pull wool over everyone's eyes, ignoring the absolute failure in the leadership team, coaching and hundred test ABs pretending they're playing in the backyard with their brothers.
You're on thin ice Richie.
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Given Razor's first test was against England, you can make some reasonable comparisons. The 23s:
England in Dunedin 2024/England in London 2025-
Ethan de Groot
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Codie Taylor
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Tyrel Lomax/Fletcher Newell
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Scott Barrett
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Patrick Tuipulotu/Josh Lord
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Samipeni Finau/Simon Parker
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Dalton Papalii/Ardie Savea
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Ardie Savea/Peter Lakai
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TJ Perenara/Cam Roigard
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Damian McKenzie/Beauden Barrett
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Mark Telea/Leicester Fainga'anuku
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Jordie Barrett/Quinn Tupaea
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Rieko Ioane/Billy Proctor
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Sevu Reece/Leroy Carter
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Stephen Perofeta/Will Jordan
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Asafo Aumua/Samisoni Taukei'aho
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Ofa Tu'ungafasi/Tamaiti Williams
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Fletcher Newell/Pasilio Tosi
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Tupou Vaa'i/Sam Darry
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Luke Jacobson/Wallace Sititi
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Finlay Christie/Cortez Ratima
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Anton Lienert-Brown
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Beauden Barrett/Damian McKenzie
Obviously injuries play a part, but I honestly think if anything sums up that things are going wrong, it is that 18 months down the line from Razor's first test, he still has Anton Lienert-Brown filling the 22 jersey.
Outside of that, despite the criticism, they have actually managed to blood a lot of players, even if it has been due to injuries, the issue is, a lot of them don't seem to be very good. The debutants in the Razor era:
Cortez Ratima - Could/should feasibly end up fifth in the pecking order by the next international window
Billy Proctor - Incredibly underwhelming given the hype
Noah Hotham - Jury massively still out
George Bell - Hardly used since
Wallace Sititi - Star burned early, but has not been great this year
Pasilio Tosi - Think he has been a success
Sam Darry - Rated as our sixth best lock
Harry Plummer - Gone
Peter Lakai - After a near flawless debut, hardly sighted until the EOYT this year
Ruben Love - LOL
Fabian Holland - Stevie Wonder could see his talent
Christian Lio-Willie - Solid v France then done away with
Du'Plessis Kirifi - Unlikely to be an All Black next year
Ollie Norris - Looks a prospect
Timoci Tavatavanawai - Given injury, tough to say how his season may have ended up, but the mafia chose ALB on the bench ahead of him in Argentina so...
Brodie McAllister - Barring an injury crisis won't play again for the All Blacks
Simon Parker - Has underwhelmed
Leroy Carter - Good solid start, but his long-term prospects don't appear strongOverwhelmingly, this seems to be a case of quality, not quantity. There are several things here. Is this poor talent ID? Is this poor coaching? Is this poor gameplan?
Probably a combination? I could be wrong, but I don't imagine there is actually a heck of a lot of technical coaching occuring at the international level - I imagine that happens at club level before you actually reach the top level. The ABs not being able to pass under pressure is not the fault of the coaches from a coaching perspective, but more a selection perspective.
The question is whether the guys not selected are much better? Given we have cycled through so many players, the chance of say Ruben Love or Hoskins Sotutu coming in and shining in this environment feels extraordinarily slim, and I don't know enough to explain why. Is it a case of Super Rugby not preparing guys for test rugby or is this squarely on the coaches? As @Bones says, Proctor particularly just looked like an obvious upgrade to the regular punter.I have no doubt the All Blacks will eventually get back to the top of the pile, because these things are cyclical, but I suspect there will be some really interesting takes of what is happening in NZR right now from many different people in ten years time, and given difference of opinion, we may never truly get an answer.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
Just been sent that article again where McCaw waffles on about development and being ready, citing Parker I think?
The more I think about it, the more it irks me. Who the fuck was available and ready then? Is he saying Paps and Sotutu should be there?
Proctor looked ready, Kirifi looked ready. Look where that got us?
I think the most annoying thing is him trying to pull wool over everyone's eyes, ignoring the absolute failure in the leadership team, coaching and hundred test ABs pretending they're playing in the backyard with their brothers.
You're on thin ice Richie.
Totally. It's utter bullshit to put any blame at the door of newbies like Parker and Proctor when our senior ABs are dishing up as bad or worse slop on a weekly basis, I don't care who you are.
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@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2025:
fuck picking on the players .this team is rudderless because of the coaches. swap anyone in or out we will get the same result as tactically we are clueless
Largely, but we do have a senior player missing touch from penalties most weeks.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Given Razor's first test was against England, you can make some reasonable comparisons. The 23s:
England in Dunedin 2024/England in London 2025-
Ethan de Groot
-
Codie Taylor
-
Tyrel Lomax/Fletcher Newell
-
Scott Barrett
-
Patrick Tuipulotu/Josh Lord
-
Samipeni Finau/Simon Parker
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Dalton Papalii/Ardie Savea
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Ardie Savea/Peter Lakai
-
TJ Perenara/Cam Roigard
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Damian McKenzie/Beauden Barrett
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Mark Telea/Leicester Fainga'anuku
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Jordie Barrett/Quinn Tupaea
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Rieko Ioane/Billy Proctor
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Sevu Reece/Leroy Carter
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Stephen Perofeta/Will Jordan
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Asafo Aumua/Samisoni Taukei'aho
-
Ofa Tu'ungafasi/Tamaiti Williams
-
Fletcher Newell/Pasilio Tosi
-
Tupou Vaa'i/Sam Darry
-
Luke Jacobson/Wallace Sititi
-
Finlay Christie/Cortez Ratima
-
Anton Lienert-Brown
-
Beauden Barrett/Damian McKenzie
Obviously injuries play a part, but I honestly think if anything sums up that things are going wrong, it is that 18 months down the line from Razor's first test, he still has Anton Lienert-Brown filling the 22 jersey.
Outside of that, despite the criticism, they have actually managed to blood a lot of players, even if it has been due to injuries, the issue is, a lot of them don't seem to be very good. The debutants in the Razor era:
Cortez Ratima - Could/should feasibly end up fifth in the pecking order by the next international window
Billy Proctor - Incredibly underwhelming given the hype
Noah Hotham - Jury massively still out
George Bell - Hardly used since
Wallace Sititi - Star burned early, but has not been great this year
Pasilio Tosi - Think he has been a success
Sam Darry - Rated as our sixth best lock
Harry Plummer - Gone
Peter Lakai - After a near flawless debut, hardly sighted until the EOYT this year
Ruben Love - LOL
Fabian Holland - Stevie Wonder could see his talent
Christian Lio-Willie - Solid v France then done away with
Du'Plessis Kirifi - Unlikely to be an All Black next year
Ollie Norris - Looks a prospect
Timoci Tavatavanawai - Given injury, tough to say how his season may have ended up, but the mafia chose ALB on the bench ahead of him in Argentina so...
Brodie McAllister - Barring an injury crisis won't play again for the All Blacks
Simon Parker - Has underwhelmed
Leroy Carter - Good solid start, but his long-term prospects don't appear strongOverwhelmingly, this seems to be a case of quality, not quantity. There are several things here. Is this poor talent ID? Is this poor coaching? Is this poor gameplan?
Probably a combination? I could be wrong, but I don't imagine there is actually a heck of a lot of technical coaching occuring at the international level - I imagine that happens at club level before you actually reach the top level. The ABs not being able to pass under pressure is not the fault of the coaches from a coaching perspective, but more a selection perspective.
The question is whether the guys not selected are much better? Given we have cycled through so many players, the chance of say Ruben Love or Hoskins Sotutu coming in and shining in this environment feels extraordinarily slim, and I don't know enough to explain why. Is it a case of Super Rugby not preparing guys for test rugby or is this squarely on the coaches? As @Bones says, Proctor particularly just looked like an obvious upgrade to the regular punter.I have no doubt the All Blacks will eventually get back to the top of the pile, because these things are cyclical, but I suspect there will be some really interesting takes of what is happening in NZR right now from many different people in ten years time, and given difference of opinion, we may never truly get an answer.
Love would've been better off playing 7 or 8 rounds of npc as Wellingtons 10 than his 20 minutes on the wing during the Rugby championship
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2025:
fuck picking on the players .this team is rudderless because of the coaches. swap anyone in or out we will get the same result as tactically we are clueless
Largely, but we do have a senior player missing touch from penalties most weeks.
yeah fair enough he can be the exception
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@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2025:
fuck picking on the players .this team is rudderless because of the coaches. swap anyone in or out we will get the same result as tactically we are clueless
Plenty of blame pie to go around. But the buck must stop with the coaches. They pick the players, they set the framework, a pattern that doesn't seem to bring out the best in the players they chose
