All Blacks 2025
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So what were the positives of 2025?
Who were the players to emerge who look to be long term all Blacks and will play a key part in 2027?
Ita fair to say the aBs stagnated this year and went backwards in a number of areas.
Razor and Ryan will survive but every other coach should be cut loose.
NZR should be committed to getting the best assistant coaches possible and it doest matter what their nationality is.
Defence coach being the biggest priority for me - nz defence systems are lagging behind the rest of the top sides and we need outside help. It cant be too hard to find better quality defensive coaches.
Lots to do to get us back on track
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
So what were the positives of 2025?
Who were the players to emerge who look to be long term all Blacks and will play a key part in 2027?
Holland was great.
Aside from that: Pledger, who didn't even make the AB XV. -
@Victor-Meldrew Partially true, but I think we lack the physicality of South Africa, England and even Argentina.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew Partially true, but I think we lack the physicality of South Africa, England and even Argentina.
Kremer and Matera make our loosies look like pussies to be honest.
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
So what were the positives of 2025?
I posted this a bit early in the thread:
"Holland's taken to Test Rugby like a duck to the wet stuff.
Jordie Barrett came back from Europe with an extra edge to his game.
Cam Roigard is world class.
Our Hookers are excellent.
DMac did well when he had game time. So did Caleb Clarke between injuries. So did Patrick Tuipolutu.
We have the Bledisloe. (Still).
Eden Park is a Fortress. (Still).
Wallace Sititi after being shaky for much of the year finished well.
In ranking terms, we are 2 in the world even if I think the Springboks, England and France are all comfortably better than us."@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
So what were the positives of 2025?
I posted this a bit early in the thread:
"Holland's taken to Test Rugby like a duck to the wet stuff.
Jordie Barrett came back from Europe with an extra edge to his game.
Cam Roigard is world class.
Our Hookers are excellent.
DMac did well when he had game time. So did Caleb Clarke between injuries. So did Patrick Tuipolutu.
We have the Bledisloe. (Still).
Eden Park is a Fortress. (Still).
Wallace Sititi after being shaky for much of the year finished well.
In ranking terms, we are 2 in the world even if I think the Springboks, England and France are all comfortably better than us."All good Sparky.
We started the year with lots of injuries and disruption to our squad and i dont think we ever really got ahead of that and had a settled squad where we were able to build as a team and get some momentum and confidence.
I wouldnt say England are better (i was at Twickenham today and they were decent but nothing really special) but until we get over these mental frailties and start winning must win games its hard to now say we are better than other top sides.
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
I really think we make too much of saying you need international experience.
The current AB head Coach says "Hold my beer"
"Until you have played or coached a test match, you don't know [what is required] until you have done it and so those guys are really valuable," Robertson said."
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
I really think we make too much of saying you need international experience.
The current AB head Coach says "Hold my beer"
"Until you have played or coached a test match, you don't know [what is required] until you have done it and so those guys are really valuable," Robertson said."
I think Razors issues and faults are not because he didnt coach Scotland for 20 tests before he became AB coach..
But i get your point!
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@reprobate Robertson's frantically trying to survive a review that rightly is going to be extremely critical. I'm sick of his spin. I want an All Blacks Head Coach who is a Head Coach. He needs to be put on surfing leave. Permanently.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate Robertson's frantically trying to survive a review that rightly is going to be extremely critical. I'm sick of his spin. I want an All Blacks Head Coach who is a Head Coach. He needs to be put on surfing leave. Permanently.
The Breakdown team say the NZRU are in a bit of disarray right now. Kirk is there but there is no CEO, the person who would usually organise the review. Mils suggests that this lack of direction might allow Razor's team to escape(he didn't look happy about it) I certainly hope not, I hope Kirk doesn't let the shit they served up this season slide
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
Jordan the best at 15? No Etzebeth?
He's tall, but a bit slow
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
I really think we make too much of saying you need international experience.
The current AB head Coach says "Hold my beer"
"Until you have played or coached a test match, you don't know [what is required] until you have done it and so those guys are really valuable," Robertson said."
I think Razors issues and faults are not because he didnt coach Scotland for 20 tests before he became AB coach..
But i get your point!
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
I really think we make too much of saying you need international experience.
The current AB head Coach says "Hold my beer"
"Until you have played or coached a test match, you don't know [what is required] until you have done it and so those guys are really valuable," Robertson said."
I think Razors issues and faults are not because he didnt coach Scotland for 20 tests before he became AB coach..
But i get your point!
More an over-optimistic view of his own abilities. I'd rather Scotland found that out before we did....
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
I really think we make too much of saying you need international experience.
The current AB head Coach says "Hold my beer"
"Until you have played or coached a test match, you don't know [what is required] until you have done it and so those guys are really valuable," Robertson said."
I think Razors issues and faults are not because he didnt coach Scotland for 20 tests before he became AB coach..
But i get your point!
More an over-optimistic view of his own abilities. I'd rather Scotland found that out before we did....
@Victor-Meldrew Should have sent him to Wales in 2021.
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@Victor-Meldrew Partially true, but I think we lack the physicality of South Africa, England and even Argentina.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew Partially true, but I think we lack the physicality of South Africa, England and even Argentina.
We cant dream of doing what South Africa did to Ireland yesterday.
That was a rag dolling, score board aside.
They "old manned" them in boxing parlance.
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/scott-robertson-discusses-his-future-leading-the-all-blacks/
Worst head coach since John Mitchell.
This is as good as it's going to get. He'll continue to "Super-Rugby-ifying" the team will small, ineffective loosies. Get an over the hill RM back at ten, the very average/error prone LF at centre, Jordan at fullback instead of the wing and we'll all have tight schincters worrying about losing the Bledisloe or the Eden Park record with a wildly inconsistent AB team. Slow march towards becoming the Wales of the South Pacific.
Any team that fronts up with a tough forward pack will destory us.
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/scott-robertson-discusses-his-future-leading-the-all-blacks/
Worst head coach since John Mitchell.
This is as good as it's going to get. He'll continue to "Super-Rugby-ifying" the team will small, ineffective loosies. Get an over the hill RM back at ten, the very average/error prone LF at centre, Jordan at fullback instead of the wing and we'll all have tight schincters worrying about losing the Bledisloe or the Eden Park record with a wildly inconsistent AB team. Slow march towards becoming the Wales of the South Pacific.
Any team that fronts up with a tough forward pack will destory us.
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2025:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/scott-robertson-discusses-his-future-leading-the-all-blacks/
Worst head coach since John Mitchell.
This is as good as it's going to get. He'll continue to "Super-Rugby-ifying" the team will small, ineffective loosies. Get an over the hill RM back at ten, the very average/error prone LF at centre, Jordan at fullback instead of the wing and we'll all have tight schincters worrying about losing the Bledisloe or the Eden Park record with a wildly inconsistent AB team. Slow march towards becoming the Wales of the South Pacific.
Any team that fronts up with a tough forward pack will destory us.
You're bang on the money Kirwan.
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/scott-robertson-discusses-his-future-leading-the-all-blacks/
Worst head coach since John Mitchell.
This is as good as it's going to get. He'll continue to "Super-Rugby-ifying" the team will small, ineffective loosies. Get an over the hill RM back at ten, the very average/error prone LF at centre, Jordan at fullback instead of the wing and we'll all have tight schincters worrying about losing the Bledisloe or the Eden Park record with a wildly inconsistent AB team. Slow march towards becoming the Wales of the South Pacific.
Any team that fronts up with a tough forward pack will destory us.
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2025:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/scott-robertson-discusses-his-future-leading-the-all-blacks/
Worst head coach since John Mitchell.
This is as good as it's going to get. He'll continue to "Super-Rugby-ifying" the team will small, ineffective loosies. Get an over the hill RM back at ten, the very average/error prone LF at centre, Jordan at fullback instead of the wing and we'll all have tight schincters worrying about losing the Bledisloe or the Eden Park record with a wildly inconsistent AB team. Slow march towards becoming the Wales of the South Pacific.
Any team that fronts up with a tough forward pack will destory us.
The ball is in your court Mr Kirk, will you allow this futility to stand, or will you make the boss move and eviscerate Razor and his coaching group?
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I’d be happy to see Robertson go, but I think there is a little bit of an overreaction with how the season went.
It was obviously very disappointing, and not at the level needed, but fuck me, it could have been way worse.
Split the ledger with the Boks, dealt to Ireland, and was comfortable against Scotland.
There was also plenty of positive signs in the first few French tests, though we failed to build on those.
I think it is fairly inconceivable things are successful with Scott Hansen involved, but I do think with the right assistant Razor could turn this around.
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I’d be happy to see Robertson go, but I think there is a little bit of an overreaction with how the season went.
It was obviously very disappointing, and not at the level needed, but fuck me, it could have been way worse.
Split the ledger with the Boks, dealt to Ireland, and was comfortable against Scotland.
There was also plenty of positive signs in the first few French tests, though we failed to build on those.
I think it is fairly inconceivable things are successful with Scott Hansen involved, but I do think with the right assistant Razor could turn this around.
@frugby What, exactly, would Razor be doing to turn it around in your scenario?
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I’d be happy to see Robertson go, but I think there is a little bit of an overreaction with how the season went.
It was obviously very disappointing, and not at the level needed, but fuck me, it could have been way worse.
Split the ledger with the Boks, dealt to Ireland, and was comfortable against Scotland.
There was also plenty of positive signs in the first few French tests, though we failed to build on those.
I think it is fairly inconceivable things are successful with Scott Hansen involved, but I do think with the right assistant Razor could turn this around.
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I’d be happy to see Robertson go, but I think there is a little bit of an overreaction with how the season went.
It was obviously very disappointing, and not at the level needed, but fuck me, it could have been way worse.
Split the ledger with the Boks, dealt to Ireland, and was comfortable against Scotland.
There was also plenty of positive signs in the first few French tests, though we failed to build on those.
I think it is fairly inconceivable things are successful with Scott Hansen involved, but I do think with the right assistant Razor could turn this around.
I can't recall a game this season where I felt we dominated. Maybe one of the Bleds. But we hung on in at least a couple of those games. Our defence is so leaky. We have serious issues, if Razor stays he will be the figurehead and should lose all of his assistants as a consequence
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I’d be happy to see Robertson go, but I think there is a little bit of an overreaction with how the season went.
It was obviously very disappointing, and not at the level needed, but fuck me, it could have been way worse.
Split the ledger with the Boks, dealt to Ireland, and was comfortable against Scotland.
There was also plenty of positive signs in the first few French tests, though we failed to build on those.
I think it is fairly inconceivable things are successful with Scott Hansen involved, but I do think with the right assistant Razor could turn this around.
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
It was obviously very disappointing, and not at the level needed, but fuck me, it could have been way worse.
It could've been worse... had France sent their A side instead of C team we would've most likely lost the June series 2-1.
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@frugby What, exactly, would Razor be doing to turn it around in your scenario?
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby What, exactly, would Razor be doing to turn it around in your scenario?
From the outside we’re only guessing at what the actual issues are, but I suspect the big one, is the none Crusaders players, in large, don’t like Scott Hansen, and with results going poorly there is not a 100% but in.
I actually reckon there is a fair chance that Robertson is at the very least not actively disliked - because I think if he was he would be out the door given the way player power works in the modern environment.
In hindsight, he backed the wrong horse with Hansen and should have crafted a different coaching team.
As I have said previously, given the issues, it might be easier to start again with a new head coach, as finding the right assistant coach, who a) is up to the task, and b) is accepted by the players is probably a little more difficult than we pretend it is
