All Blacks 2026
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@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
becoming Brazil-like
We are Brazil-like now.
Hundreds of our players play abroad (thousands for Brazil).
The Brazil domestic leagues are still great tho; just like ours.
Just not top bracket.The only difference is NZ can retain at least some star players because of the international rugby set up.
The concern is we become Uruguay-like.I'd definitely take Uruguay over Brazil, they're ranked 14th in the world. Brazil are 34th. It's like they don't even play Rugby.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2026:
I'd definitely take Uruguay over Brazil, they're ranked 14th in the world. Brazil are 34th. It's like they don't even play Rugby.
Haha
The 2 x World champs Uruguay, currently ranked 16th.
Which is actually pretty good for them; have been down as far as 76th.
And the 5th ranked 5 x WC winners Brazil; still up with the heavy weights; which is us now; and where we wanna stay.And the Brazil dom league is actually a very competitive league; more interesting in a competitive sense than the big west Euro soccer leagues.
Once went to a Fla-Flu match at the Maracana, long ago, in another life-time.As a non-sporting aside; the NZ economy does look a bit like a south american economy.
The main dif being, NZ keeps a tighter lid on vested interests (corruption).
So maybe comparing NZ rugby with south american soccer is not totally out of place. -
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia There are several factors stopping people going as frequently as they used to. The price, as you say - and not just the tickets. Better quality streaming and TVs. A bit of over-saturation of rugby. More competition from other entertainment. Lower-quality competitions, with no All Blacks in the NPC, etc.
This one might just be me, but Super Rugby seems to have lost its appeal a bit with all the changes to teams and competition structure, South African teams leaving, Australian teams underperforming.
I also think atmosphere decline feeds on itself. Smaller crowds create a vicious cycle: empty seats reduce atmosphere, poor atmosphere discourages new or casual fans and once a ground feels quiet, people assume it’s not worth going.
MY personal experience is also the time, we had so many years of night games creeping later and later, am i miss remembering they got to 805pm kickoff? it just became a thing lots of families wouldnt do....and if you dont go with your family i think your less likely to go as an adult, i dont have kids but i would struggle to get mate to come to the pub or even at someone's house...clashed with bed time or bath etc...and when people did come it was always talked about "beautiful day this avo and was looking for something to do with the kids"...now we're getting some more day games which is good but its definitely not peoples routine
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2026:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia There are several factors stopping people going as frequently as they used to. The price, as you say - and not just the tickets. Better quality streaming and TVs. A bit of over-saturation of rugby. More competition from other entertainment. Lower-quality competitions, with no All Blacks in the NPC, etc.
This one might just be me, but Super Rugby seems to have lost its appeal a bit with all the changes to teams and competition structure, South African teams leaving, Australian teams underperforming.
I also think atmosphere decline feeds on itself. Smaller crowds create a vicious cycle: empty seats reduce atmosphere, poor atmosphere discourages new or casual fans and once a ground feels quiet, people assume it’s not worth going.
MY personal experience is also the time, we had so many years of night games creeping later and later, am i miss remembering they got to 805pm kickoff? it just became a thing lots of families wouldnt do....and if you dont go with your family i think your less likely to go as an adult, i dont have kids but i would struggle to get mate to come to the pub or even at someone's house...clashed with bed time or bath etc...and when people did come it was always talked about "beautiful day this avo and was looking for something to do with the kids"...now we're getting some more day games which is good but its definitely not peoples routine
Taking the kids to a night game does seem like it'd be a bit too difficult. Our one kid is too young to sit and watch a game and, yes, his bedtime is (conveniently for watching at home) bang on 7:00. But people must have used to either go with the family or without them. Something's changed there - the cost, time, a different attitude etc - that wasn't an issue before. There were more afternoon games pre-professionalism but that's now a long time ago.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal I think all of the above, obviously cost has gone up, doubt you can get a ticket/pint/tshirt/bus to game combo for $30 like we use to back in the last 90's...and people tried for a long time to keep going to night games in the same way they did day games....but i imagine parent are less inclined to let theirs kids run around in the dark out of site at 9pm than they might out in the open in the sun on a grass embankment at 3pm....let alone paying a small fortune for it
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2026:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2026:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia There are several factors stopping people going as frequently as they used to. The price, as you say - and not just the tickets. Better quality streaming and TVs. A bit of over-saturation of rugby. More competition from other entertainment. Lower-quality competitions, with no All Blacks in the NPC, etc.
This one might just be me, but Super Rugby seems to have lost its appeal a bit with all the changes to teams and competition structure, South African teams leaving, Australian teams underperforming.
I also think atmosphere decline feeds on itself. Smaller crowds create a vicious cycle: empty seats reduce atmosphere, poor atmosphere discourages new or casual fans and once a ground feels quiet, people assume it’s not worth going.
MY personal experience is also the time, we had so many years of night games creeping later and later, am i miss remembering they got to 805pm kickoff? it just became a thing lots of families wouldnt do....and if you dont go with your family i think your less likely to go as an adult, i dont have kids but i would struggle to get mate to come to the pub or even at someone's house...clashed with bed time or bath etc...and when people did come it was always talked about "beautiful day this avo and was looking for something to do with the kids"...now we're getting some more day games which is good but its definitely not peoples routine
Taking the kids to a night game does seem like it'd be a bit too difficult. Our one kid is too young to sit and watch a game and, yes, his bedtime is (conveniently for watching at home) bang on 7:00. But people must have used to either go with the family or without them. Something's changed there - the cost, time, a different attitude etc - that wasn't an issue before. There were more afternoon games pre-professionalism but that's now a long time ago.
The thing that has changed is the convenience of watching it at home, and the general attitude of convenience. Games at night it certainly a factor, but needing tv money since professional came is the big reason for this. TV pays the money, wants the product at night for good viewing times, and it pretty easy to stay at home and watch it in comfort.
I mean one of fasting growing things is uber eats, just sit at home and have everything brought to you there. Have a peek t how many music festivals etc are shutting up shop as well, it's too hard to go out for some.
Apart from young kids everything else about shit food and beer etc is just an excuse really. My experience is ( I been going to rugby, etc for long time), the food and even beer is probably better now than ever was, usually more choice in both, but crowds are still dwindling. -
@Dan54 it would take a culture shift, its the norm for millions in the UK to go to football games ate 230-30 every other sat for +20 games a year (let alone the away days that dont work as well in NZ), go have lunch, walk down and watch the game, have a couple of beers and home for dinner
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
Point remains, we can't expect to have a It's just not realistic.
No-one is expecting NZR to have range of first rate internationally tier 1 experienced head coach candidates available when we want them.
But the point remains that NZR chose a bloke with no experience of Test rugby whatsoever. rather than court other candidates.
Well the counter argument to that is that is if we run a selection process right now who is the most qualified candidate by your metrics?
One of the applicants will have won 8 Super rugby titles and have two years of international coaching experience where he achieved No 2 ranking in the world.
Should they pick a failed Wallabies and Ireland coach who never had much success at Super Rugby or that guy by your metrics? Unless they choose Rassie Eramus or Steve Hansen no one is more qualified than Scott Robertson at this very moment by the metrics you keep harping on about.
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@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2026:
Ironically unless Victor Meldrew can build a time machine and go back two years the selection criteria he is proposing is actually a strong argument for retaining Scott Robertson as All Black coach.
The real question is does the criteria support retaining Scott Hansen as AB coach?
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2026:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2026:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia There are several factors stopping people going as frequently as they used to. The price, as you say - and not just the tickets. Better quality streaming and TVs. A bit of over-saturation of rugby. More competition from other entertainment. Lower-quality competitions, with no All Blacks in the NPC, etc.
This one might just be me, but Super Rugby seems to have lost its appeal a bit with all the changes to teams and competition structure, South African teams leaving, Australian teams underperforming.
I also think atmosphere decline feeds on itself. Smaller crowds create a vicious cycle: empty seats reduce atmosphere, poor atmosphere discourages new or casual fans and once a ground feels quiet, people assume it’s not worth going.
MY personal experience is also the time, we had so many years of night games creeping later and later, am i miss remembering they got to 805pm kickoff? it just became a thing lots of families wouldnt do....and if you dont go with your family i think your less likely to go as an adult, i dont have kids but i would struggle to get mate to come to the pub or even at someone's house...clashed with bed time or bath etc...and when people did come it was always talked about "beautiful day this avo and was looking for something to do with the kids"...now we're getting some more day games which is good but its definitely not peoples routine
Taking the kids to a night game does seem like it'd be a bit too difficult. Our one kid is too young to sit and watch a game and, yes, his bedtime is (conveniently for watching at home) bang on 7:00. But people must have used to either go with the family or without them. Something's changed there - the cost, time, a different attitude etc - that wasn't an issue before. There were more afternoon games pre-professionalism but that's now a long time ago.
The thing that has changed is the convenience of watching it at home, and the general attitude of convenience. Games at night it certainly a factor, but needing tv money since professional came is the big reason for this. TV pays the money, wants the product at night for good viewing times, and it pretty easy to stay at home and watch it in comfort.
I mean one of fasting growing things is uber eats, just sit at home and have everything brought to you there. Have a peek t how many music festivals etc are shutting up shop as well, it's too hard to go out for some.
Apart from young kids everything else about shit food and beer etc is just an excuse really. My experience is ( I been going to rugby, etc for long time), the food and even beer is probably better now than ever was, usually more choice in both, but crowds are still dwindling.No Dan. You are ignoring that the beer and food quality in NZ outside of rugby grounds has got a shitload better. Nobody is comparing the offerings at the footy and going "man, how lucky are we? this is way better than it was in the 70s!". They are comparing it to what they can have elsewhere now.
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I like the suggestion of NZR select the head coach and then set about appointing the assistants with input from the head coach, rather than complete free choice.
We need to spend some time and money defining exactly what the structure and requirements are of the assistant coaching setup with properly written job descriptions and metrics for measuring performance.
This seems to be what Rassie Erasmus has done with SA. Their coaching setup is way more complex than ours but they have a well defined structure and everybody seems to know their role.
We would have to review it every 5 years to make sure it is ahead of the game or at worst keeping up. I think this is a big part of our problems. We caught a break on the rest of the world when we appointed GH, Hansen and Smith and our coaching setup was better than the rest of the rugby world. Unfortunately this lead to complacency and the rest of the rugby world looked at what we did refined it and now have better coaching structures than us and we are trying to do the same thing we came up with at the turn of the century.
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@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2026:
I like the suggestion of NZR select the head coach and then set about appointing the assistants with input from the head coach, rather than complete free choice.
We need to spend some time and money defining exactly what the structure and requirements are of the assistant coaching setup with properly written job descriptions and metrics for measuring performance.
This seems to be what Rassie Erasmus has done with SA. Their coaching setup is way more complex than ours but they have a well defined structure and everybody seems to know their role.
We would have to review it every 5 years to make sure it is ahead of the game or at worst keeping up. I think this is a big part of our problems. We caught a break on the rest of the world when we appointed GH, Hansen and Smith and our coaching setup was better than the rest of the rugby world. Unfortunately this lead to complacency and the rest of the rugby world looked at what we did refined it and now have better coaching structures than us and we are trying to do the same thing we came up with at the turn of the century.
We've had discussion about what kind of overseas' experience is needed, in this thread.
Rassie is a great example, as he may not have had international experience, but his work in the NH is basically the backbone he has built the Springbok set-up around.
History doesn't repeat but it does rhyme a bit, and what we are likely seeing is that in the early 2000s, we had the overseas experience of Henry etc that went on to set the standard.
In the last 10 years - and this was really highlighted by Lam - the NH clubs have redefined professionalism in rugby, and that's where Rassie got his core experience first-hand at Munster.
I think @Victor-Meldrew argument is getting reframed in a way that I don't interpret it, we don't have a system to keep and develop coaches, and our approach to coach selection seems very much from the 1980s (with in my opinion, some corporate enshittification layered on top to make it look legit).
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Whose fault is that then? Scott Robertson's or NZR? Victor Meldrew has become obsessed with having a go at Scott Robertson to the point it is getting tiresome.
Robertson may not be 'Surf Jesus' or 'the messiah' but he is not a bad head coach either otherwise we would not be in this situation. He obviously has some talent for coaching but there is something off with the All Black setup and it has appeared to be this way since at least 2017.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2026:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2026:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia There are several factors stopping people going as frequently as they used to. The price, as you say - and not just the tickets. Better quality streaming and TVs. A bit of over-saturation of rugby. More competition from other entertainment. Lower-quality competitions, with no All Blacks in the NPC, etc.
This one might just be me, but Super Rugby seems to have lost its appeal a bit with all the changes to teams and competition structure, South African teams leaving, Australian teams underperforming.
I also think atmosphere decline feeds on itself. Smaller crowds create a vicious cycle: empty seats reduce atmosphere, poor atmosphere discourages new or casual fans and once a ground feels quiet, people assume it’s not worth going.
MY personal experience is also the time, we had so many years of night games creeping later and later, am i miss remembering they got to 805pm kickoff? it just became a thing lots of families wouldnt do....and if you dont go with your family i think your less likely to go as an adult, i dont have kids but i would struggle to get mate to come to the pub or even at someone's house...clashed with bed time or bath etc...and when people did come it was always talked about "beautiful day this avo and was looking for something to do with the kids"...now we're getting some more day games which is good but its definitely not peoples routine
Taking the kids to a night game does seem like it'd be a bit too difficult. Our one kid is too young to sit and watch a game and, yes, his bedtime is (conveniently for watching at home) bang on 7:00. But people must have used to either go with the family or without them. Something's changed there - the cost, time, a different attitude etc - that wasn't an issue before. There were more afternoon games pre-professionalism but that's now a long time ago.
The thing that has changed is the convenience of watching it at home, and the general attitude of convenience. Games at night it certainly a factor, but needing tv money since professional came is the big reason for this. TV pays the money, wants the product at night for good viewing times, and it pretty easy to stay at home and watch it in comfort.
I mean one of fasting growing things is uber eats, just sit at home and have everything brought to you there. Have a peek t how many music festivals etc are shutting up shop as well, it's too hard to go out for some.
Apart from young kids everything else about shit food and beer etc is just an excuse really. My experience is ( I been going to rugby, etc for long time), the food and even beer is probably better now than ever was, usually more choice in both, but crowds are still dwindling.No Dan. You are ignoring that the beer and food quality in NZ outside of rugby grounds has got a shitload better. Nobody is comparing the offerings at the footy and going "man, how lucky are we? this is way better than it was in the 70s!". They are comparing it to what they can have elsewhere now.
I understand that, but I go to concerts still, and beer isn't great. Mates that go to cricket reckon they don't get great beer either. What sports etc do you go to that has really good beer etc? Genuinely interested. I can get craft beer at a Naki game, and they have food caravans selling a reasonable selection. I will bet I probably get as good beer and food at stadiums in NZ as I got at Suncorp Stadium in Brisbane and cricket at the Gabba. You can't have or feed thousands of people like you do at a restaurant mate, it doesn't work. And you go to any game whether test, super or NPC in NZ and have a look at people lined up to buy a drink or food.
And if people aren't saying how lucky are we it's better than the 70s, they weren't going to rugby in 70s, as you couldn't buy any beers in stadiums then in general, and that was up until 90s (well I didn't see it), and don't even recall seeing food stalls there, though no doubt you could get hotdog on a stick. I still say if anyone says they not going to rugby because beer and food not up to standard is just not admitting really they just can't be bothered, which is ok. Just be honest. -
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2026:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2026:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia There are several factors stopping people going as frequently as they used to. The price, as you say - and not just the tickets. Better quality streaming and TVs. A bit of over-saturation of rugby. More competition from other entertainment. Lower-quality competitions, with no All Blacks in the NPC, etc.
This one might just be me, but Super Rugby seems to have lost its appeal a bit with all the changes to teams and competition structure, South African teams leaving, Australian teams underperforming.
I also think atmosphere decline feeds on itself. Smaller crowds create a vicious cycle: empty seats reduce atmosphere, poor atmosphere discourages new or casual fans and once a ground feels quiet, people assume it’s not worth going.
MY personal experience is also the time, we had so many years of night games creeping later and later, am i miss remembering they got to 805pm kickoff? it just became a thing lots of families wouldnt do....and if you dont go with your family i think your less likely to go as an adult, i dont have kids but i would struggle to get mate to come to the pub or even at someone's house...clashed with bed time or bath etc...and when people did come it was always talked about "beautiful day this avo and was looking for something to do with the kids"...now we're getting some more day games which is good but its definitely not peoples routine
Taking the kids to a night game does seem like it'd be a bit too difficult. Our one kid is too young to sit and watch a game and, yes, his bedtime is (conveniently for watching at home) bang on 7:00. But people must have used to either go with the family or without them. Something's changed there - the cost, time, a different attitude etc - that wasn't an issue before. There were more afternoon games pre-professionalism but that's now a long time ago.
The thing that has changed is the convenience of watching it at home, and the general attitude of convenience. Games at night it certainly a factor, but needing tv money since professional came is the big reason for this. TV pays the money, wants the product at night for good viewing times, and it pretty easy to stay at home and watch it in comfort.
I mean one of fasting growing things is uber eats, just sit at home and have everything brought to you there. Have a peek t how many music festivals etc are shutting up shop as well, it's too hard to go out for some.
Apart from young kids everything else about shit food and beer etc is just an excuse really. My experience is ( I been going to rugby, etc for long time), the food and even beer is probably better now than ever was, usually more choice in both, but crowds are still dwindling.No Dan. You are ignoring that the beer and food quality in NZ outside of rugby grounds has got a shitload better. Nobody is comparing the offerings at the footy and going "man, how lucky are we? this is way better than it was in the 70s!". They are comparing it to what they can have elsewhere now.
I understand that, but I go to concerts still, and beer isn't great. Mates that go to cricket reckon they don't get great beer either. What sports etc do you go to that has really good beer etc? Genuinely interested. I can get craft beer at a Naki game, and they have food caravans selling a reasonable selection. I will bet I probably get as good beer and food at stadiums in NZ as I got at Suncorp Stadium in Brisbane and cricket at the Gabba. You can't have or feed thousands of people like you do at a restaurant mate, it doesn't work. And you go to any game whether test, super or NPC in NZ and have a look at people lined up to buy a drink or food.
And if people aren't saying how lucky are we it's better than the 70s, they weren't going to rugby in 70s, as you couldn't buy any beers in stadiums then, and that was up until 90s, and don't even recall seeing food stalls there, though no doubt you could get hotdog on a stick. I still say if anyone says they not going to rugby because beer and food not up to standard is just not admitting really they just can't be bothered, which is ok. Just be honest.Why do you have to turn it into some 'these people don't care about rugby as much as I do' thing? The reason for anybody not going to anything could be classed as "couldn't be bothered", and there is a different threshold for everyone at which they can be bothered - some people have kids etc. One of the reasons people can't be bothered is because the food and beer is shit and/or overpriced - improving it would get more people to the footy.
Same thing with day games, but there is a bigger hurdle there with TV timing.
Food trucks are a good option, but the prices need to be reasonable, not venue-enhanced.
A chiller, mobile eftpos machines and a few people to hand out beer is not a huge expense.More people at the ground, no matter where rugby fits in their list of priorities is a good thing isn't it?
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On the bright side, our hookers are getting bigger:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/360915611/best-decision-why-all-blacks-hooker-asafo-aumua-took-break-after-concussions
"All Blacks coach Scott Robertson picked Codie Taylor, Samisoni Taukei'aho, George Bell and Brodie Retallick as his hookers this season."
