Super Rugby - The Future
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@sparky said in Super Rugby - The Future:
Super Rugby isn't driving enough revenue.
I think the long-term solution is going to be a joint Japanese, Australian and NZ franchise rugby competition to replace Super Rugby. Then some sort of play offs against the top European teams.
The status quo is slowly dying.
League is the smaller sport in Europe. Super League average attendances are about 10,000 compared to 15,000 in the Guinness Premiership or 12,000 in League One (third tier) football and the United Rugby Championship.
European club rugby will remain an attractive destination for players in the second half of their careers.
Top 14 is currently attracting a lot of people. La Rochelle celebrated last week their 113th consecutive soldout game at home. Their stadium contains 18,000 seats for two years now. Its former capacity was 16,000. Bordeaux attracts at least a 26,000 crowd each time they play at home (43,000 when they play at the Matmut stadium).
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@mohikamo said in Super Rugby - The Future:
Yep, I want to keep the NPC. Why? Because it probably the best and enjoyable comp in the country. Does it cost NZR money, yep, but I only looking at it as what I want.
Haha
The older ferners can remember when NZ did have a world class domestic rugby comp.
Big crowds, great players, great games.
So sad for the younguns; at least the olduns have the memories.Mate I pretty keen on our domestic comp now. I prefer to to super.
Not as good as maybe could be, but I find it best we got.
Even that I would be very keen to having (as some have said) 9-10 team comp, or even the old 3 tier system. I also understand why it wouldn't work in this day or professionalism .
I also understand the idea of 9-10 teams in extended Super, but could only work with full rework of world rugby calendar (and perhaps a lot more money) . Perhaps not only moving RC to beginning of year, but also the inbound tours etc. Then go for a proper comp without stopping for tests?
Just a random thought. -
@Dan54 said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@mohikamo said in Super Rugby - The Future:
Yep, I want to keep the NPC. Why? Because it probably the best and enjoyable comp in the country. Does it cost NZR money, yep, but I only looking at it as what I want.
Haha
The older ferners can remember when NZ did have a world class domestic rugby comp.
Big crowds, great players, great games.
So sad for the younguns; at least the olduns have the memories.Mate I pretty keen on our domestic comp now. I prefer to to super.
Not as good as maybe could be, but I find it best we got.
Even that I would be very keen to having (as some have said) 9-10 team comp, or even the old 3 tier system. I also understand why it wouldn't work in this day or professionalism .
I also understand the idea of 9-10 teams in extended Super, but could only work with full rework of world rugby calendar (and perhaps a lot more money) . Perhaps not only moving RC to beginning of year, but also the inbound tours etc. Then go for a proper comp without stopping for tests?
Just a random thought.If I could go back to any sort of rugby period it would be the early 2000s Super Rugby era. Electric rugby, huge crowds and amazing players. Take me back.
The domestic NPC comp is nothing more than a development comp now unfortunately. The standard has dropped hugely over the last 10 years and with All Blacks barely playing in it, it’s just not a profitable model anymore with very moderate crowds. If nothing is done with Super Rugby it could end up with the same fate unfortunately.
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@Canes4life No arguments NPC is a development comp, but a good competitive one for me. I not sure how it is in Wellington or cities, but would get a mile more interest and talk etc on streets and clubs in most areas where I talk to people from.
I still think in most weekends you would get as many to NPC games (combined) as you got at super.. But talking to people on street and say at golf club, barber(where I really noticed people say NPC is all that interests me now) ,I have found people more interested in NPC. What answer is ,I not sure, but I think we tending to get disconnected sport more and more. Even the last couple of years, the fellas that followed the Wahs in NRL at gold club say yeah naa. I still support them, but don't really watch like I used to. I get impression even the soccer fellas at club (and in family) and I know , are not as fired up over it these days, cricket is even more so.
Is part of it that there is such a wide range of sports we have access too (and our apparent lack of concentration) that people are just watching highlights etc now? -
@Canes4life said in Super Rugby - The Future:
If I could go back to any sort of rugby period it would be the early 2000s Super Rugby era. Electric rugby, huge crowds and amazing players.
The NPC was still a huge spectacle back then too. Full houses for finals, ABs on the bench, etc.
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@Bovidae said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@Canes4life said in Super Rugby - The Future:
If I could go back to any sort of rugby period it would be the early 2000s Super Rugby era. Electric rugby, huge crowds and amazing players.
The NPC was still a huge spectacle back then too. Full houses for finals, ABs on the bench, etc.
Those were the days, wonderful memories going to the Tin and watching the likes of Lomu, Cullen, Umaga etc on display. The hay day for sure.
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@Dan54 said in Super Rugby - The Future:
I still think in most weekends you would get as many to NPC games (combined) as you got at super..
I can't find the hard numbers for Super attendance or a game by game breakdown for NPC. But even the soft ones, this claim is not true and I know it is one you constantly fall back on.
With NZRs publicity following the completion of the competition (NPC) it stated 240k fans attended games. That is across 77 games. Which means on average 3,117 people attended games. Meaning each week 21,818 people on average attended across the seven game weekend.
That 240k it includes:
18k Canterbury v Otago - final
Nearly 11 k Otago v BoP semi final
8 k Southland v OtagoThere is nearly 40k across three game.
22k would be two poorly attended NZ games in Super Rugby.
Not diminishing the crowds that turned out to some NPC games. It is just completely incrorect to compare overall attendance mumbers week in and out between the two comps.
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What id be curious to pick the brain of NZR about is what value they place upon the various comps and structures and how much benefit they believe they derive from each one respectively.
Despite everything NZ still massively over achieves in rugby compared to similar sized countries. No Irish team has won the European cup since 2018 and Ireland still can't make a RWC semi final. NZ remain competitive v countries with much larger resources like France.
So, what do the NZR see as the biggest point of differentiation between NZ and other countries from a structural standpoint? Because there are clearly benefits being derived from the status quo.
One thing I noticed about T14 is they have the crowds and the cash but the rugby can be a bit unimaginative and the league is of course full of foreign players who are ineligible for France. I'm not sure the way T14 is structured really enables the French national team to maximize its playing resources and fulfill its potential. I wonder if they might have stood a better chance at beating SA if they had sent a full strength side to NZ - stuff like this seems to hinder their chances at test level.
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@SouthernMann said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@Dan54 said in Super Rugby - The Future:
I still think in most weekends you would get as many to NPC games (combined) as you got at super..
I can't find the hard numbers for Super attendance or a game by game breakdown for NPC. But even the soft ones, this claim is not true and I know it is one you constantly fall back on.
With NZRs publicity following the completion of the competition (NPC) it stated 240k fans attended games. That is across 77 games. Which means on average 3,117 people attended games. Meaning each week 21,818 people on average attended across the seven game weekend.
That 240k it includes:
18k Canterbury v Otago - final
Nearly 11 k Otago v BoP semi final
8 k Southland v OtagoThere is nearly 40k across three game.
22k would be two poorly attended NZ games in Super Rugby.
Not diminishing the crowds that turned out to some NPC games. It is just completely incrorect to compare overall attendance mumbers week in and out between the two comps.
Ok, I admit I only do figures roughly, and obviously well out, I kind of take ths crowds I see an say Naki games and muliply them by 7. Never really worried enough to get into them all.. I will take your point quite happily.
I will still enjoy NPC anyway (and super). as it's all rugby for me to watch. -
This post is deleted!
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@Canes4life said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@Dan54 said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@mohikamo said in Super Rugby - The Future:
Yep, I want to keep the NPC. Why? Because it probably the best and enjoyable comp in the country. Does it cost NZR money, yep, but I only looking at it as what I want.
Haha
The older ferners can remember when NZ did have a world class domestic rugby comp.
Big crowds, great players, great games.
So sad for the younguns; at least the olduns have the memories.Mate I pretty keen on our domestic comp now. I prefer to to super.
Not as good as maybe could be, but I find it best we got.
Even that I would be very keen to having (as some have said) 9-10 team comp, or even the old 3 tier system. I also understand why it wouldn't work in this day or professionalism .
I also understand the idea of 9-10 teams in extended Super, but could only work with full rework of world rugby calendar (and perhaps a lot more money) . Perhaps not only moving RC to beginning of year, but also the inbound tours etc. Then go for a proper comp without stopping for tests?
Just a random thought.If I could go back to any sort of rugby period it would be the early 2000s Super Rugby era. Electric rugby, huge crowds and amazing players. Take me back.
The domestic NPC comp is nothing more than a development comp now unfortunately. The standard has dropped hugely over the last 10 years and with All Blacks barely playing in it, it’s just not a profitable model anymore with very moderate crowds. If nothing is done with Super Rugby it could end up with the same fate unfortunately.
Yep would love it, but we stuck with paying the bills with test rugby now aren't we! The test window moved later etc, and followed by Autumn series etc has surely put ruined things.
F*** professionalism stuffing things up!!I know we had to have it etc, but it certaily ruins sport really doesn't it?
