Blues 2017
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@rotated sorry, I don't know if you are trying to be funny or not, but I don't get your humor if so?
@taniwharugby said in Blues 2017:
@rotated sorry, I don't know if you are trying to be funny or not, but I don't get your humor if so?
Sorry Matt Moulds. Brain fart. There is a balance to selection that is required and he helped to fulfill that.
Positions in the squad like third string hooker and halfback have historically been used to appease franchise partners with selections. The Northland captain is virtually assured of Blues selection.
Moulds and Nock to me are poor selections with zero prospects of blossoming into Super Rugby contributors.
edit: granted I barely remember the guys given name take my opinion with a pinch of salt.
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@taniwharugby said in Blues 2017:
@rotated sorry, I don't know if you are trying to be funny or not, but I don't get your humor if so?
Sorry Matt Moulds. Brain fart. There is a balance to selection that is required and he helped to fulfill that.
Positions in the squad like third string hooker and halfback have historically been used to appease franchise partners with selections. The Northland captain is virtually assured of Blues selection.
Moulds and Nock to me are poor selections with zero prospects of blossoming into Super Rugby contributors.
edit: granted I barely remember the guys given name take my opinion with a pinch of salt.
@rotated ah, I forgot about your token selections.
As for following, you are right I'm not a Blues 'fan' and yes Moulds did get selected on the bench but rarely got on the field, so maybe it's you that doesn't follow them that close?
I barely take your opinion with a grain of salt, let alone a pinch
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@rotated ah, I forgot about your token selections.
As for following, you are right I'm not a Blues 'fan' and yes Moulds did get selected on the bench but rarely got on the field, so maybe it's you that doesn't follow them that close?
I barely take your opinion with a grain of salt, let alone a pinch
@taniwharugby said in Blues 2017:
@rotated ah, I forgot about your token selections.
As for following, you are right I'm not a Blues 'fan' and yes Moulds did get selected on the bench but rarely got on the field, so maybe it's you that doesn't follow them that close?
I barely take your opinion with a grain of salt, let alone a pinch
I saw a bit of him a Mitre 10 Cup level and didn't rate him very strongly. Again it could be all in my head - and clearly you think it is - but it is curious how for yet another year we have the most Northland recruits - double all the other NZ franchises put together.
The fact this happens year on year indicates a distinct bias but I'm sure all selections are performance based and unrelated to Northland being a provincial partner.
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@taniwharugby said in Blues 2017:
@rotated ah, I forgot about your token selections.
As for following, you are right I'm not a Blues 'fan' and yes Moulds did get selected on the bench but rarely got on the field, so maybe it's you that doesn't follow them that close?
I barely take your opinion with a grain of salt, let alone a pinch
I saw a bit of him a Mitre 10 Cup level and didn't rate him very strongly. Again it could be all in my head - and clearly you think it is - but it is curious how for yet another year we have the most Northland recruits - double all the other NZ franchises put together.
The fact this happens year on year indicates a distinct bias but I'm sure all selections are performance based and unrelated to Northland being a provincial partner.
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@taniwharugby said in Blues 2017:
@rotated ah, I forgot about your token selections.
As for following, you are right I'm not a Blues 'fan' and yes Moulds did get selected on the bench but rarely got on the field, so maybe it's you that doesn't follow them that close?
I barely take your opinion with a grain of salt, let alone a pinch
I saw a bit of him a Mitre 10 Cup level and didn't rate him very strongly. Again it could be all in my head - and clearly you think it is - but it is curious how for yet another year we have the most Northland recruits - double all the other NZ franchises put together.
The fact this happens year on year indicates a distinct bias but I'm sure all selections are performance based and unrelated to Northland being a provincial partner.
@rotated oh of course it's a clear bias, without a doubt, Northland weild such power amongst the Blues boards that they are compelled to select players who are so undeserving...sits up there with the bias of refs towards the ABS I reckon.
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@rotated wouldn't that also make it curious if you have the most Auckland recruits? And the hurricanes have the most Wellington recruits...
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@rotated wouldn't that also make it curious if you have the most Auckland recruits? And the hurricanes have the most Wellington recruits...
@Bones said in Blues 2017:
@rotated wouldn't that also make it curious if you have the most Auckland recruits? And the hurricanes have the most Wellington recruits...
I don't think it's curious at all. Even in an "open market" since the draft was turfed the provinces still are clearly biased towards players (and coaches for that matter) from their franchise partners. Geographic proximity certainly plays a part too - Blues consistently have more Counties players than other non-Chiefs unions for example as Counties got on this great run.
The risks of being myopic are different for the Crusaders deferring to Canterbury reps than the Blues having a quota from the historically poor Northland.
But it's pretty clear if you follow Blues squads dating back to the Toeava exclusion that we will never see a Blues squad without at least 2-3 Taniwha, one will be the captain and the other ~two will always be 5th locks, 3rd hookers, 3rd halfbacks... We have four this year.
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Ok like TR I'm clearly not following what you're trying to say. I don't know why it wouldn't be curious to have the most CM players but it is to have Northland players.
@Bones what he is saying is Moulds, Goodhue, Pryor and Nock are only there to appease the mighty Northland Cartels...
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Ok like TR I'm clearly not following what you're trying to say. I don't know why it wouldn't be curious to have the most CM players but it is to have Northland players.
@Bones said in Blues 2017:
Ok like TR I'm clearly not following what you're trying to say. I don't know why it wouldn't be curious to have the most CM players but it is to have Northland players.
With the Counties point I was just saying bias isn't the only thing at play. Players will often play for the most geographically convenient franchise if given the option - so that could be a reason we have a disproportionate number of Northland players each and every year for the past decade.
There are two explanations for the statistical anomaly that is Northland players at the Blues where we consistently select more than all other NZ franchises combined.
- Picked as part of a quota, or at the very least given the benefit of the doubt for fringe spots due to being part of a junior partner in the Blues.
- These players are in demand from other Franchises but opt to play for the Blues.
Having watched Northland over the past half decade you will have a tough case making #2.
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Kara Pryor was excellent for the Blues laat year, Goodhue and Nock are both highly rated youngsters and former NZ U20 starters. So that just leaves Moulds.
Im not sure what going back half a decade is worth - Tana has only been with the team a year, the CEO not much longer. Before that was Kirwan who had issues with selection all over the shop.
So once again the rumour of Dalton Papali'i having a Blues contract is false - I wonder who the next 7 off the rank is - given Gibson's injury history it's likely they'll need another 7.
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Kara Pryor was excellent for the Blues laat year, Goodhue and Nock are both highly rated youngsters and former NZ U20 starters. So that just leaves Moulds.
Im not sure what going back half a decade is worth - Tana has only been with the team a year, the CEO not much longer. Before that was Kirwan who had issues with selection all over the shop.
So once again the rumour of Dalton Papali'i having a Blues contract is false - I wonder who the next 7 off the rank is - given Gibson's injury history it's likely they'll need another 7.
@KiwiMurph said in Blues 2017:
So once again the rumour of Dalton Papali'i having a Blues contract is false - I wonder who the next 7 off the rank is - given Gibson's injury history it's likely they'll need another 7.
Maybe they see Murphy Taramai as cover?
Google says he played 7 in some of the Harbour pre-season matches
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@Bones said in Blues 2017:
Ok like TR I'm clearly not following what you're trying to say. I don't know why it wouldn't be curious to have the most CM players but it is to have Northland players.
With the Counties point I was just saying bias isn't the only thing at play. Players will often play for the most geographically convenient franchise if given the option - so that could be a reason we have a disproportionate number of Northland players each and every year for the past decade.
There are two explanations for the statistical anomaly that is Northland players at the Blues where we consistently select more than all other NZ franchises combined.
- Picked as part of a quota, or at the very least given the benefit of the doubt for fringe spots due to being part of a junior partner in the Blues.
- These players are in demand from other Franchises but opt to play for the Blues.
Having watched Northland over the past half decade you will have a tough case making #2.
@rotated Well considering that 3 other Northland players are in other SR squads it wouldn't be that hard to make a case for point 2.
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@Bones said in Blues 2017:
@rotated wouldn't that also make it curious if you have the most Auckland recruits? And the hurricanes have the most Wellington recruits...
I don't think it's curious at all. Even in an "open market" since the draft was turfed the provinces still are clearly biased towards players (and coaches for that matter) from their franchise partners. Geographic proximity certainly plays a part too - Blues consistently have more Counties players than other non-Chiefs unions for example as Counties got on this great run.
The risks of being myopic are different for the Crusaders deferring to Canterbury reps than the Blues having a quota from the historically poor Northland.
But it's pretty clear if you follow Blues squads dating back to the Toeava exclusion that we will never see a Blues squad without at least 2-3 Taniwha, one will be the captain and the other ~two will always be 5th locks, 3rd hookers, 3rd halfbacks... We have four this year.
@rotated said in Blues 2017:
@Bones said in Blues 2017:
@rotated wouldn't that also make it curious if you have the most Auckland recruits? And the hurricanes have the most Wellington recruits...
I don't think it's curious at all. Even in an "open market" since the draft was turfed the provinces still are clearly biased towards players (and coaches for that matter) from their franchise partners. Geographic proximity certainly plays a part too - Blues consistently have more Counties players than other non-Chiefs unions for example as Counties got on this great run.
The risks of being myopic are different for the Crusaders deferring to Canterbury reps than the Blues having a quota from the historically poor Northland.
but it's pretty clear if you follow Blues squads dating back to the Toeava exclusion that we will never see a Blues squad without at least 2-3 Taniwha, one will be the captain and the other ~two will always be 5th locks, 3rd hookers, 3rd halfbacks... We have four this year.
A nice theory, but over the last 10 seasons....
Northland Blues ( E& OE)
2007 : Justin Collins (c), David Holwell.
2008: Justin Collins (c), Bronson Murray.
2009: Justin Collins, Rene Ranger.
2010: Rene Ranger, Lachie Munro.
2011: Jarred Payne (c), Lachie Munro.
2012: Rene Ranger, Lachie Munro, Dan Pryor, Cam Goodhue.
2013 Rene Ranger (c).
2014: -
2015: Daniel Bowden, Jack Ram, Michael Moulds (c)
2016: Kara Pryor, Mike Moulds (c), Namatahi Waa, Sam Nock, Jack Ram.Loose Forwards = 5, Inside Backs = 3, Outside backs = 2, Props = 2, Halfback =1, Hooker = 1, Locks = 0.
Captains not chosen on merit?.... you decide
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Ranger is an interesting one because defensively he is a beast at centre and is able to compete for the ball where he is one of the best in the world as a back.
However in attack he has looked lost there. I like him on the wing as his lack of passing game isn't too much of an issue.
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@Bones said in Blues 2017:
Ok like TR I'm clearly not following what you're trying to say. I don't know why it wouldn't be curious to have the most CM players but it is to have Northland players.
With the Counties point I was just saying bias isn't the only thing at play. Players will often play for the most geographically convenient franchise if given the option - so that could be a reason we have a disproportionate number of Northland players each and every year for the past decade.
There are two explanations for the statistical anomaly that is Northland players at the Blues where we consistently select more than all other NZ franchises combined.
- Picked as part of a quota, or at the very least given the benefit of the doubt for fringe spots due to being part of a junior partner in the Blues.
- These players are in demand from other Franchises but opt to play for the Blues.
Having watched Northland over the past half decade you will have a tough case making #2.
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@rotated said in Blues 2017:
@Bones said in Blues 2017:
@rotated wouldn't that also make it curious if you have the most Auckland recruits? And the hurricanes have the most Wellington recruits...
I don't think it's curious at all. Even in an "open market" since the draft was turfed the provinces still are clearly biased towards players (and coaches for that matter) from their franchise partners. Geographic proximity certainly plays a part too - Blues consistently have more Counties players than other non-Chiefs unions for example as Counties got on this great run.
The risks of being myopic are different for the Crusaders deferring to Canterbury reps than the Blues having a quota from the historically poor Northland.
but it's pretty clear if you follow Blues squads dating back to the Toeava exclusion that we will never see a Blues squad without at least 2-3 Taniwha, one will be the captain and the other ~two will always be 5th locks, 3rd hookers, 3rd halfbacks... We have four this year.
A nice theory, but over the last 10 seasons....
Northland Blues ( E& OE)
2007 : Justin Collins (c), David Holwell.
2008: Justin Collins (c), Bronson Murray.
2009: Justin Collins, Rene Ranger.
2010: Rene Ranger, Lachie Munro.
2011: Jarred Payne (c), Lachie Munro.
2012: Rene Ranger, Lachie Munro, Dan Pryor, Cam Goodhue.
2013 Rene Ranger (c).
2014: -
2015: Daniel Bowden, Jack Ram, Michael Moulds (c)
2016: Kara Pryor, Mike Moulds (c), Namatahi Waa, Sam Nock, Jack Ram.Loose Forwards = 5, Inside Backs = 3, Outside backs = 2, Props = 2, Halfback =1, Hooker = 1, Locks = 0.
Captains not chosen on merit?.... you decide -
@Pepe
A few adjustments to your stats Pepe, 2015 Matt Moulds was WTG 2016 Add in Jack Ram. Dan Bowden never actually took the field for Northland so you could actually leave him out of the stats, cheers.@Northlandallday
Thanks for the corrections (that's why I always slip the "E & OE" in).
But didn't Matt Moulds debut in 2015 vs the Stormers?
I'll leave Dan Bowden in the figures because he was contracted to and involved with the Northland squad (despite being injured). -
Kara Pryor was excellent for the Blues laat year, Goodhue and Nock are both highly rated youngsters and former NZ U20 starters. So that just leaves Moulds.
Im not sure what going back half a decade is worth - Tana has only been with the team a year, the CEO not much longer. Before that was Kirwan who had issues with selection all over the shop.
So once again the rumour of Dalton Papali'i having a Blues contract is false - I wonder who the next 7 off the rank is - given Gibson's injury history it's likely they'll need another 7.
@KiwiMurph I would guess Mat Mattich may be brought in. He must have been close to Taramai's spot in the squad as he was excellent for Northland this year (though often at number eight). He trained with the squad last season and played pre season I think.
