Scott Robertson
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The more stories that come out about Scott Robertson, the more baffling it is he made it so far and had so much lower-level success. It feels increasingly like he benefited from a perfect storm of advantages - structures, players, timing - rather than coaching ability.
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in Scott Robertson:
The more stories that come out about Scott Robertson, the more baffling it is he made it so far and had so much lower-level success. It feels increasingly like he benefited from a perfect storm of advantages - structures, players, timing - rather than coaching ability.
Think he also benefitted from being in a uni-environment (is that a word?) when he won his 7 SR titles in a row with the Crusaders. Defeat is a great tutor and he didn't have many of those.
Add in that he was a charismatic public figure, gave great presentations to NZR and you can see why NZR placed so much faith in him.
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@canefan said in Scott Robertson:
@zedsdeadbaby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Great backgrounder - I think it portrays Razor as sadly out of his depth - and perhaps at the end he realised it too.
These reports might cause some test nations to pause at the thought of signing Razor on as coach
Be a bit of a waste if that happened. Needs to start again away from NZ to get his mojo back. Coaching a smaller Union or as an assistant somewhere could be just what he needs.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Scott Robertson:
@canefan said in Scott Robertson:
@zedsdeadbaby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Great backgrounder - I think it portrays Razor as sadly out of his depth - and perhaps at the end he realised it too.
These reports might cause some test nations to pause at the thought of signing Razor on as coach
Be a bit of a waste if that happened. Needs to start again away from NZ to get his mojo back. Coaching a smaller Union or as an assistant somewhere could be just what he needs.
Or an overseas club
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@reprobate yeah we will probably never know, maybe he (and others) tried to speak to Razor about it but was ignored or brushed off?
One of the biggest things I learned is unless there's a shared view on the world you can't make changes. There's often discussion about whether there's even a problem, let alone how to start moving towards a solution. I have been told by people sometimes 'this is not a problem ', which works until reality intrudes
@nzzp said in Scott Robertson:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@reprobate yeah we will probably never know, maybe he (and others) tried to speak to Razor about it but was ignored or brushed off?
One of the biggest things I learned is unless there's a shared view on the world you can't make changes. There's often discussion about whether there's even a problem, let alone how to start moving towards a solution. I have been told by people sometimes 'this is not a problem ', which works until reality intrudes
Yup. Agree and definie a problem and you're 80% there to solving it.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Scott Robertson:
@canefan said in Scott Robertson:
@zedsdeadbaby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Great backgrounder - I think it portrays Razor as sadly out of his depth - and perhaps at the end he realised it too.
These reports might cause some test nations to pause at the thought of signing Razor on as coach
Be a bit of a waste if that happened. Needs to start again away from NZ to get his mojo back. Coaching a smaller Union or as an assistant somewhere could be just what he needs.
Or an overseas club
@canefan said in Scott Robertson:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Scott Robertson:
@canefan said in Scott Robertson:
@zedsdeadbaby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Great backgrounder - I think it portrays Razor as sadly out of his depth - and perhaps at the end he realised it too.
These reports might cause some test nations to pause at the thought of signing Razor on as coach
Be a bit of a waste if that happened. Needs to start again away from NZ to get his mojo back. Coaching a smaller Union or as an assistant somewhere could be just what he needs.
Or an overseas club
Maybe, but I think he needs Test experience. Who knows, he may come back after 2027 and have the complete tool-bag.
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Over-hyped and over-rated fraud. He must have known that he wasn't a very good coach and would be exposed hideously at the top level. The Emperor had no clothes. What an idiot!
No sympathy at all over his firing. Good riddance!
@sparky said in Scott Robertson:
Over-hyped and over-rated fraud. He must have known that he wasn't a very good coach and would be exposed hideously at the top level. The Emperor had no clothes. What an idiot!
No sympathy at all over his firing. Good riddance!
Think that's unfair. He was clearly a coaching superstar who wanted to step up to the next level but just couldn't manage it. Not his fault he wanted the top job and thought he could do it.
NZR are the culprits here. Should have taken a cold, hard unemotional look rather than jumping on the "In Scott we trust" bandwagon. Their handling of both Foster and Robertson has been an object lesson in shithouse management.
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At least NZR haven't pulled a Starmer and said Razor lied to them
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@sparky said in Scott Robertson:
Over-hyped and over-rated fraud. He must have known that he wasn't a very good coach and would be exposed hideously at the top level. The Emperor had no clothes. What an idiot!
No sympathy at all over his firing. Good riddance!
Think that's unfair. He was clearly a coaching superstar who wanted to step up to the next level but just couldn't manage it. Not his fault he wanted the top job and thought he could do it.
NZR are the culprits here. Should have taken a cold, hard unemotional look rather than jumping on the "In Scott we trust" bandwagon. Their handling of both Foster and Robertson has been an object lesson in shithouse management.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Scott Robertson:
@sparky said in Scott Robertson:
Over-hyped and over-rated fraud. He must have known that he wasn't a very good coach and would be exposed hideously at the top level. The Emperor had no clothes. What an idiot!
No sympathy at all over his firing. Good riddance!
Think that's unfair. He was clearly a coaching superstar who wanted to step up to the next level but just couldn't manage it. Not his fault he wanted the top job and thought he could do it.
NZR are the culprits here. Should have taken a cold, hard unemotional look rather than jumping on the "In Scott we trust" bandwagon. Their handling of both Foster and Robertson has been an object lesson in shithouse management.
The weird part is that given how he performed in the job it's surprising that he would have wanted it in the first place.
He never really took any chances or risks in the job, does not appear to have been up to par in the man management stakes, does not really appear to have a clear vision of what he was trying to achieve..... What would have made him think he was up to the task?
He should have stayed in his comfort zone or been an assistant for the ABs where he might have been useful in adding a bit of fun and levity to the camp. It's all so very odd.
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Re-read the article and this struck me
"It is understood that Robertson was starting to feel like a scapegoat."
That's 100% down to NZR. Same thing happened to Foster and it's just corrosive.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Scott Robertson:
Re-read the article and this struck me
"It is understood that Robertson was starting to feel like a scapegoat."
That's 100% down to NZR. Same thing happened to Foster and it's just corrosive.
A scapegoat for the failings of his coaching and man management?
It's called responsibility.
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@sparky said in Scott Robertson:
Over-hyped and over-rated fraud. He must have known that he wasn't a very good coach and would be exposed hideously at the top level. The Emperor had no clothes. What an idiot!
No sympathy at all over his firing. Good riddance!
Think that's unfair. He was clearly a coaching superstar who wanted to step up to the next level but just couldn't manage it. Not his fault he wanted the top job and thought he could do it.
NZR are the culprits here. Should have taken a cold, hard unemotional look rather than jumping on the "In Scott we trust" bandwagon. Their handling of both Foster and Robertson has been an object lesson in shithouse management.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Scott Robertson:
@sparky said in Scott Robertson:
Over-hyped and over-rated fraud. He must have known that he wasn't a very good coach and would be exposed hideously at the top level. The Emperor had no clothes. What an idiot!
No sympathy at all over his firing. Good riddance!
Think that's unfair. He was clearly a coaching superstar who wanted to step up to the next level but just couldn't manage it. Not his fault he wanted the top job and thought he could do it.
NZR are the culprits here. Should have taken a cold, hard unemotional look rather than jumping on the "In Scott we trust" bandwagon. Their handling of both Foster and Robertson has been an object lesson in shithouse management.
A post to bookmark for the next time some piston wristed gibbon accuses you of being anti-Robertson.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@restofit said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@gt12 Well maybe it's because being a top level assistant requires someone who is comfortable in their technical 'hands on' coaching ability, and Razor is not?
It's never been clear to me how you can be an effective HC at the international level if you can't also be an effective assistant coach at that level.
If you don't have sufficient coaching ability to play at that level, at least for one specific aspect of the role, I can't see how you should be able to manage a team of people doing those jobs.
Amen, you can't. Which is why some of the comments earlier about the HC being the best man-manager while the best actual coaches should be assistants made me feel a little sick.
@reprobate said in Scott Robertson:
Amen, you can't. Which is why some of the comments earlier about the HC being the best man-manager while the best actual coaches should be assistants made me feel a little sick.
Haha
The assistant coach with the best man mangament skills makes the best head coach, is probably more like it. -
@Victor-Meldrew said in Scott Robertson:
@sparky said in Scott Robertson:
Over-hyped and over-rated fraud. He must have known that he wasn't a very good coach and would be exposed hideously at the top level. The Emperor had no clothes. What an idiot!
No sympathy at all over his firing. Good riddance!
Think that's unfair. He was clearly a coaching superstar who wanted to step up to the next level but just couldn't manage it. Not his fault he wanted the top job and thought he could do it.
NZR are the culprits here. Should have taken a cold, hard unemotional look rather than jumping on the "In Scott we trust" bandwagon. Their handling of both Foster and Robertson has been an object lesson in shithouse management.
The weird part is that given how he performed in the job it's surprising that he would have wanted it in the first place.
He never really took any chances or risks in the job, does not appear to have been up to par in the man management stakes, does not really appear to have a clear vision of what he was trying to achieve..... What would have made him think he was up to the task?
He should have stayed in his comfort zone or been an assistant for the ABs where he might have been useful in adding a bit of fun and levity to the camp. It's all so very odd.
@nonpartizan said in Scott Robertson:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Scott Robertson:
@sparky said in Scott Robertson:
Over-hyped and over-rated fraud. He must have known that he wasn't a very good coach and would be exposed hideously at the top level. The Emperor had no clothes. What an idiot!
No sympathy at all over his firing. Good riddance!
Think that's unfair. He was clearly a coaching superstar who wanted to step up to the next level but just couldn't manage it. Not his fault he wanted the top job and thought he could do it.
NZR are the culprits here. Should have taken a cold, hard unemotional look rather than jumping on the "In Scott we trust" bandwagon. Their handling of both Foster and Robertson has been an object lesson in shithouse management.
The weird part is that given how he performed in the job it's surprising that he would have wanted it in the first place.
He never really took any chances or risks in the job, does not appear to have been up to par in the man management stakes, does not really appear to have a clear vision of what he was trying to achieve..... What would have made him think he was up to the task?
He should have stayed in his comfort zone or been an assistant for the ABs where he might have been useful in adding a bit of fun and levity to the camp. It's all so very odd.
I actually agree with you, but a someone who has been bitten by the Hubris bug before, and hopefully learned from it, if you look at what he asked for, it makes sense.
He wanted 'his' quarterback and tried to transplant the strategies that worked for him with the Saders up to the next level. Which is dumb - it can't be that easy - but I think he knew that his way to success was to transplant across what had worked for him before.
If you think about it, in his mind when you are winning at a level down, it seems to make sense to you - and more importantly - every one in the media who can't get your cock out of their mouth. I see some people bagging the shit out of him here now who had his cock so far down their throats I can hardly imagine how they were still able to type. If you want to have some fun on this forum - on that point - search for "In Razor we trust"
On the other hand, to try to be fair, why wouldn't fans have expected the world? The multiple part cock-sucking series with Jim Kayes is a must watch for cringe viewing, but that's where we were - people literally thought he was some fucking guru. That raises a great question for him and his team as they approached the role - risolling almost everyone from the last regime - they thought they would show up and win. Why would we expect him to actually think that he would need to go up multiple levels in ability to be successful at the next level?
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Reading through that long piece in the Herald by Shayne Currie the insider quote that jumped out at me was the one saying that while Robertson had many qualities, “man management and communication” were not among them.
This is a bit like saying of an airline pilot, he was a lovely bloke and told some great stories - but being colour blind and an alcoholic really counted against him.
Others in the story are quoted as saying of Robertson that he appeared to cave under pressure, retreated into his shell and left all the hard talking to the assistants.
That’s what it looked like from the outside to me as well. I know there’s a school out there among the Crusaders rusted-ons that this was all a fiendish plot by Ardie Savea, but Captain Kirk and co would not have turned the stun guns to kill if the problem was just a clash of personalities.
The early departure of MacDonald, the largely unexplained resignation of Jason Holland and Robertson’s own appallingly incomprehensible public utterances tell you he was melting under the pressure, perhaps understandable given the hype he had to live up to. In short, he just wasn’t up to the job.
The manner and timing of his departure is clearly not ideal, but does anyone really think things were salvageable given the clearly toxic internal culture and resulting pissweak on-field performances?
@His-Bobness said in Scott Robertson:
and Robertson’s own appallingly incomprehensible public utterances tell you he was melting under the pressure
while watching those utterances . . . I was thinking this guy needs a hug . . . and i'm not a huggy type at all!
others were probably thinking the same thing -
@nonpartizan said in Scott Robertson:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Scott Robertson:
@sparky said in Scott Robertson:
Over-hyped and over-rated fraud. He must have known that he wasn't a very good coach and would be exposed hideously at the top level. The Emperor had no clothes. What an idiot!
No sympathy at all over his firing. Good riddance!
Think that's unfair. He was clearly a coaching superstar who wanted to step up to the next level but just couldn't manage it. Not his fault he wanted the top job and thought he could do it.
NZR are the culprits here. Should have taken a cold, hard unemotional look rather than jumping on the "In Scott we trust" bandwagon. Their handling of both Foster and Robertson has been an object lesson in shithouse management.
The weird part is that given how he performed in the job it's surprising that he would have wanted it in the first place.
He never really took any chances or risks in the job, does not appear to have been up to par in the man management stakes, does not really appear to have a clear vision of what he was trying to achieve..... What would have made him think he was up to the task?
He should have stayed in his comfort zone or been an assistant for the ABs where he might have been useful in adding a bit of fun and levity to the camp. It's all so very odd.
I actually agree with you, but a someone who has been bitten by the Hubris bug before, and hopefully learned from it, if you look at what he asked for, it makes sense.
He wanted 'his' quarterback and tried to transplant the strategies that worked for him with the Saders up to the next level. Which is dumb - it can't be that easy - but I think he knew that his way to success was to transplant across what had worked for him before.
If you think about it, in his mind when you are winning at a level down, it seems to make sense to you - and more importantly - every one in the media who can't get your cock out of their mouth. I see some people bagging the shit out of him here now who had his cock so far down their throats I can hardly imagine how they were still able to type. If you want to have some fun on this forum - on that point - search for "In Razor we trust"
On the other hand, to try to be fair, why wouldn't fans have expected the world? The multiple part cock-sucking series with Jim Kayes is a must watch for cringe viewing, but that's where we were - people literally thought he was some fucking guru. That raises a great question for him and his team as they approached the role - risolling almost everyone from the last regime - they thought they would show up and win. Why would we expect him to actually think that he would need to go up multiple levels in ability to be successful at the next level?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@taniwharugby I've seen shit performances,thru the years - individually and by the team as a whole.
But I've never seen an AB team simply give up like they did against SA in Wellington last year. Absolute low point.
I agree, and funnily enough I saw 2 test teams give up this year, other one was the Boks against Wallabies at Ellis Park, just have no idea why either happened .
I agree not a high point of year, and yet I thought the English test worried me more , we looked lost whole test.@Dan54 said in Scott Robertson:
I thought the English test worried me more , we looked lost whole test.
Yep, I actually stopped watching that game when we were 12 in front. Had already seen enough.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Scott Robertson:
Re-read the article and this struck me
"It is understood that Robertson was starting to feel like a scapegoat."
That's 100% down to NZR. Same thing happened to Foster and it's just corrosive.
A scapegoat for the failings of his coaching and man management?
It's called responsibility.
@antipodean said in Scott Robertson:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Scott Robertson:
Re-read the article and this struck me
"It is understood that Robertson was starting to feel like a scapegoat."
That's 100% down to NZR. Same thing happened to Foster and it's just corrosive.
A scapegoat for the failings of his coaching and man management?
It's called responsibility.
Get that. But if he felt that way then NZR clearly didn't communicate their concerns - and have history. They were his employer.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Scott Robertson:
@sparky said in Scott Robertson:
Over-hyped and over-rated fraud. He must have known that he wasn't a very good coach and would be exposed hideously at the top level. The Emperor had no clothes. What an idiot!
No sympathy at all over his firing. Good riddance!
Think that's unfair. He was clearly a coaching superstar who wanted to step up to the next level but just couldn't manage it. Not his fault he wanted the top job and thought he could do it.
NZR are the culprits here. Should have taken a cold, hard unemotional look rather than jumping on the "In Scott we trust" bandwagon. Their handling of both Foster and Robertson has been an object lesson in shithouse management.
A post to bookmark for the next time some piston wristed gibbon accuses you of being anti-Robertson.
@gt12 said in Scott Robertson:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Scott Robertson:
@sparky said in Scott Robertson:
Over-hyped and over-rated fraud. He must have known that he wasn't a very good coach and would be exposed hideously at the top level. The Emperor had no clothes. What an idiot!
No sympathy at all over his firing. Good riddance!
Think that's unfair. He was clearly a coaching superstar who wanted to step up to the next level but just couldn't manage it. Not his fault he wanted the top job and thought he could do it.
NZR are the culprits here. Should have taken a cold, hard unemotional look rather than jumping on the "In Scott we trust" bandwagon. Their handling of both Foster and Robertson has been an object lesson in shithouse management.
A post to bookmark for the next time some piston wristed gibbon accuses you of being anti-Robertson.
Just call things as I see them.
Took the piss out of Foster's rotundness and Robertson's fondness for PowerPoint. Looking forward to see what the next coach offers...
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Over-hyped and over-rated fraud. He must have known that he wasn't a very good coach and would be exposed hideously at the top level. The Emperor had no clothes. What an idiot!
No sympathy at all over his firing. Good riddance!
@sparky said in Scott Robertson:
Over-hyped and over-rated fraud. He must have known that he wasn't a very good coach and would be exposed hideously at the top level. The Emperor had no clothes. What an idiot!
No sympathy at all over his firing. Good riddance!
I’m sorry but that’s an absolutely pathetic reaction and comment. Not a very good coach? No one can question his success at a domestic level. Won a super rugby title in South Africa, undefeated
super rugby season?If you look at the squads he had over the years he was completely responsible for growing most of those players. Completely out coached any super coach he came up against. His game planes against the Blues and Chiefs squads over the past few years completely dismantled them and he was clearly a better coach than McMillan, Crotter, McDonald, Joseph etc.
He shouldn’t have had the ABs coaching job and he was out of his depth. But calling him a fraud and an idiot is a neurotic, witch hunter style comment.
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The more we hear the more the parting of ways was the correct call, even if it leaves us in this mess.
It will be tough for a new coach coming in now, but they do hold a good.hand for negotiating a contract, I hope though that both they and NZR can see the bigger picture and include good kpis and review process with options to extend or part ways.
@taniwharugby said in Scott Robertson:
The more we hear the more the parting of ways was the correct call, even if it leaves us in this mess.
Yes it was the correct call.
I would have done it, but did not think NZR would have the balls.
Thought the situation needed to get worse, before NZR would be forced into some drastic action.Sometimes a change just has to be made, a situation has developed to point where the only realistic course of action is to just blow it up.
Bring someone in with a clean slate, see what you can salvage, and move forward.
Happens in all walks-of-life, politics/commerce/sports.Seen a zillion teams change coaches in my time, but the Robertson implosion is one of the most bizarre I have witnessed.
An impressive CV, starting with a lot of good will, and ending in 24 months, with concerns about his well-being!
Incredible.
If there was nothing else going on in his life, then he just simply wasn't up to it.
