All Blacks - New Coach Selection
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan Other than SA, I'm far from convinced there is a gap.
Genuinely think there's now a very big gap in self-belief, handling pressure and closing out games.
That said, If we can get back to the sort of discipline and self-belief we had in RWC, then that gap pretty much disappears. Actually think the skills and cattle are there - and probably better than they were in 2023.
I believe gaps in belief etc can be closed pretty quickly , at various times we witnessed teams do it to us when we were front runners
These basic problems should be relatively easy to remedy
- Select better. BB should be done, he's cooked. Pick a bruiser in the back row instead of 2 small guys to go with our show pony
- Improve tactics. We lacked a decent plan last season. Aimless kicking and constantly trying high risk low benefit moves put us under massive pressure and expose our defence unnecessarily
- Get everyone on the same page
If we do just those things we will be at least 10 points better per game
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@canefan Did he not play them in France and just lose by a point - somewhat unluckily as I recall?
There were two shockers in his tenure (England and SA) - but, if we're to assume he was fucking hopeless as a coach then there's very little ground to be made up by his successor on anyone except SA.
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan Did he not play them in France and just lose by a point - somewhat unluckily as I recall?
There were two shockers in his tenure (England and SA) - but, if we're to assume he was fucking hopeless as a coach then there's very little ground to be made up by his successor on anyone except SA.
If he started DMac at 10 instead of reverting to fucking BB we would have pumped France. Early dominance that BB was unable to turn in to points. France got belief and got back in to the game
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@canefan who's this big bruiser gonna be?
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan who's this big bruiser gonna be?
That's a very tough question. Part of the problem was our obsession with going wide instead of playing more direct. If we tighten that up a bit perhaps the the back row will be more successful at keeping position and recycling the ball
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan who's this big bruiser gonna be?
That's a very tough question. Part of the problem was our obsession with going wide instead of playing more direct. If we tighten that up a bit perhaps the the back row will be more successful at keeping position and recycling the ball
@canefan therein lies part of our problem, that do extend beyond Razors time, we have tended to steer away from big bruisers...sure we have a few running around but none are on the cusp, Parker is closest but he doesnt use his size.
It is the same with 10, the obsession with BB over the past few years has seen very little development behind him and Dmac, that we have talents like Love, Jacomb, Reihana, but all very untested where they are only really finding thier.feet at super.
Development has been pretty poor in multiple positions, coupled with lack of direction or style of play has really bought us back into the pack.
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The All Blacks had just two really impressive matches last year; the win over France Baby squad in Wellington 43-16 and the win over the Boks at Eden Park. Both were the only games when Wayne Smith got involved in the training week.
Now that Smith's gone, we need an equivalent rugby mind involved in the setup - Rennie, Schmidt, or Brown, come closest to that in my opinion, and only Rennie is available.
We needed Schmidt to manage our brilliant WC run in 2023 and still lost the final (albeit by a single point and 14 men). World Cups can be notoriously fickle & often the best side doesn't even win it.
If we are to have a hope of winning in 2027, we need a technical mind such as Rennie (at the very least in an advisory role).
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The All Blacks had just two really impressive matches last year; the win over France Baby squad in Wellington 43-16 and the win over the Boks at Eden Park. Both were the only games when Wayne Smith got involved in the training week.
Now that Smith's gone, we need an equivalent rugby mind involved in the setup - Rennie, Schmidt, or Brown, come closest to that in my opinion, and only Rennie is available.
We needed Schmidt to manage our brilliant WC run in 2023 and still lost the final (albeit by a single point and 14 men). World Cups can be notoriously fickle & often the best side doesn't even win it.
If we are to have a hope of winning in 2027, we need a technical mind such as Rennie (at the very least in an advisory role).
-
The All Blacks had just two really impressive matches last year; the win over France Baby squad in Wellington 43-16 and the win over the Boks at Eden Park. Both were the only games when Wayne Smith got involved in the training week.
Now that Smith's gone, we need an equivalent rugby mind involved in the setup - Rennie, Schmidt, or Brown, come closest to that in my opinion, and only Rennie is available.
We needed Schmidt to manage our brilliant WC run in 2023 and still lost the final (albeit by a single point and 14 men). World Cups can be notoriously fickle & often the best side doesn't even win it.
If we are to have a hope of winning in 2027, we need a technical mind such as Rennie (at the very least in an advisory role).
-
The All Blacks had just two really impressive matches last year; the win over France Baby squad in Wellington 43-16 and the win over the Boks at Eden Park. Both were the only games when Wayne Smith got involved in the training week.
Now that Smith's gone, we need an equivalent rugby mind involved in the setup - Rennie, Schmidt, or Brown, come closest to that in my opinion, and only Rennie is available.
We needed Schmidt to manage our brilliant WC run in 2023 and still lost the final (albeit by a single point and 14 men). World Cups can be notoriously fickle & often the best side doesn't even win it.
If we are to have a hope of winning in 2027, we need a technical mind such as Rennie (at the very least in an advisory role).
@restofit said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The All Blacks had just two really impressive matches last year; the win over France Baby squad in Wellington 43-16 and the win over the Boks at Eden Park. Both were the only games when Wayne Smith got involved in the training week.
For me that's a clear case of correlation for the simple reason I don't believe such clarity and tactical focus can result from attendance at a couple of sessions.
Now that Smith's gone, we need an equivalent rugby mind involved in the setup - Rennie, Schmidt, or Brown, come closest to that in my opinion, and only Rennie is available.
We needed Schmidt to manage our brilliant WC run in 2023 and still lost the final (albeit by a single point and 14 men). World Cups can be notoriously fickle & often the best side doesn't even win it.
If we are to have a hope of winning in 2027, we need a technical mind such as Rennie (at the very least in an advisory role).
If your head coach can't provide the technical direction, then you definitely need well credentialed assistants. Competent but willing (and able) to articulate to the wider coaching group and players what opportunities they see.
I think the All Blacks would be immeasurably better off if they selected better, rewarded form, and had clarity at halftime.
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@restofit said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The All Blacks had just two really impressive matches last year; the win over France Baby squad in Wellington 43-16 and the win over the Boks at Eden Park. Both were the only games when Wayne Smith got involved in the training week.
For me that's a clear case of correlation for the simple reason I don't believe such clarity and tactical focus can result from attendance at a couple of sessions.
Now that Smith's gone, we need an equivalent rugby mind involved in the setup - Rennie, Schmidt, or Brown, come closest to that in my opinion, and only Rennie is available.
We needed Schmidt to manage our brilliant WC run in 2023 and still lost the final (albeit by a single point and 14 men). World Cups can be notoriously fickle & often the best side doesn't even win it.
If we are to have a hope of winning in 2027, we need a technical mind such as Rennie (at the very least in an advisory role).
If your head coach can't provide the technical direction, then you definitely need well credentialed assistants. Competent but willing (and able) to articulate to the wider coaching group and players what opportunities they see.
I think the All Blacks would be immeasurably better off if they selected better, rewarded form, and had clarity at halftime.
@antipodean said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@restofit said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The All Blacks had just two really impressive matches last year; the win over France Baby squad in Wellington 43-16 and the win over the Boks at Eden Park. Both were the only games when Wayne Smith got involved in the training week.
For me that's a clear case of correlation for the simple reason I don't believe such clarity and tactical focus can result from attendance at a couple of sessions.
Now that Smith's gone, we need an equivalent rugby mind involved in the setup - Rennie, Schmidt, or Brown, come closest to that in my opinion, and only Rennie is available.
We needed Schmidt to manage our brilliant WC run in 2023 and still lost the final (albeit by a single point and 14 men). World Cups can be notoriously fickle & often the best side doesn't even win it.
If we are to have a hope of winning in 2027, we need a technical mind such as Rennie (at the very least in an advisory role).
If your head coach can't provide the technical direction, then you definitely need well credentialed assistants. Competent but willing (and able) to articulate to the wider coaching group and players what opportunities they see.
I think the All Blacks would be immeasurably better off if they selected better, rewarded form, and had clarity at halftime.
If your head coach can't provide the technical direction, you need a new head coach.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@restofit said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The All Blacks had just two really impressive matches last year; the win over France Baby squad in Wellington 43-16 and the win over the Boks at Eden Park. Both were the only games when Wayne Smith got involved in the training week.
For me that's a clear case of correlation for the simple reason I don't believe such clarity and tactical focus can result from attendance at a couple of sessions.
Now that Smith's gone, we need an equivalent rugby mind involved in the setup - Rennie, Schmidt, or Brown, come closest to that in my opinion, and only Rennie is available.
We needed Schmidt to manage our brilliant WC run in 2023 and still lost the final (albeit by a single point and 14 men). World Cups can be notoriously fickle & often the best side doesn't even win it.
If we are to have a hope of winning in 2027, we need a technical mind such as Rennie (at the very least in an advisory role).
If your head coach can't provide the technical direction, then you definitely need well credentialed assistants. Competent but willing (and able) to articulate to the wider coaching group and players what opportunities they see.
I think the All Blacks would be immeasurably better off if they selected better, rewarded form, and had clarity at halftime.
If your head coach can't provide the technical direction, you need a new head coach.
@reprobate said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@antipodean said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@restofit said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The All Blacks had just two really impressive matches last year; the win over France Baby squad in Wellington 43-16 and the win over the Boks at Eden Park. Both were the only games when Wayne Smith got involved in the training week.
For me that's a clear case of correlation for the simple reason I don't believe such clarity and tactical focus can result from attendance at a couple of sessions.
Now that Smith's gone, we need an equivalent rugby mind involved in the setup - Rennie, Schmidt, or Brown, come closest to that in my opinion, and only Rennie is available.
We needed Schmidt to manage our brilliant WC run in 2023 and still lost the final (albeit by a single point and 14 men). World Cups can be notoriously fickle & often the best side doesn't even win it.
If we are to have a hope of winning in 2027, we need a technical mind such as Rennie (at the very least in an advisory role).
If your head coach can't provide the technical direction, then you definitely need well credentialed assistants. Competent but willing (and able) to articulate to the wider coaching group and players what opportunities they see.
I think the All Blacks would be immeasurably better off if they selected better, rewarded form, and had clarity at halftime.
If your head coach can't provide the technical direction, you need a new head coach.
Nah, they could be specialists in culture.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@antipodean said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@restofit said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The All Blacks had just two really impressive matches last year; the win over France Baby squad in Wellington 43-16 and the win over the Boks at Eden Park. Both were the only games when Wayne Smith got involved in the training week.
For me that's a clear case of correlation for the simple reason I don't believe such clarity and tactical focus can result from attendance at a couple of sessions.
Now that Smith's gone, we need an equivalent rugby mind involved in the setup - Rennie, Schmidt, or Brown, come closest to that in my opinion, and only Rennie is available.
We needed Schmidt to manage our brilliant WC run in 2023 and still lost the final (albeit by a single point and 14 men). World Cups can be notoriously fickle & often the best side doesn't even win it.
If we are to have a hope of winning in 2027, we need a technical mind such as Rennie (at the very least in an advisory role).
If your head coach can't provide the technical direction, then you definitely need well credentialed assistants. Competent but willing (and able) to articulate to the wider coaching group and players what opportunities they see.
I think the All Blacks would be immeasurably better off if they selected better, rewarded form, and had clarity at halftime.
If your head coach can't provide the technical direction, you need a new head coach.
Nah, they could be specialists in culture.
@antipodean said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@reprobate said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@antipodean said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@restofit said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The All Blacks had just two really impressive matches last year; the win over France Baby squad in Wellington 43-16 and the win over the Boks at Eden Park. Both were the only games when Wayne Smith got involved in the training week.
For me that's a clear case of correlation for the simple reason I don't believe such clarity and tactical focus can result from attendance at a couple of sessions.
Now that Smith's gone, we need an equivalent rugby mind involved in the setup - Rennie, Schmidt, or Brown, come closest to that in my opinion, and only Rennie is available.
We needed Schmidt to manage our brilliant WC run in 2023 and still lost the final (albeit by a single point and 14 men). World Cups can be notoriously fickle & often the best side doesn't even win it.
If we are to have a hope of winning in 2027, we need a technical mind such as Rennie (at the very least in an advisory role).
If your head coach can't provide the technical direction, then you definitely need well credentialed assistants. Competent but willing (and able) to articulate to the wider coaching group and players what opportunities they see.
I think the All Blacks would be immeasurably better off if they selected better, rewarded form, and had clarity at halftime.
If your head coach can't provide the technical direction, you need a new head coach.
Nah, they could be specialists in culture.
And so could I.
Edit: in an attempt to not be such a facetious fluffybunny.
What I'm trying to say here, is that the role is still that of a rugby coach. It doesn't really matter that it is the ABs, one of the best and most prestigious rugby teams in the world, it is still a rugby team. There is not the same difference as there would be in other occupations, where if you are at the top of the biggest organisation you have multiple middle tiers of management because your organisation has 10000 employees. It is still 15 blokes running out to start the game. Sure you have more resources and can afford some specialist assistants, but it is still a relatively small tree you are at the top of and you need to know your shit, not be some generalist manager of people/culture (these people really shouldn't exist at all, but in my opinion are absolutely untenable in a relatively small organisation). -
@reprobate said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@antipodean said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@restofit said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The All Blacks had just two really impressive matches last year; the win over France Baby squad in Wellington 43-16 and the win over the Boks at Eden Park. Both were the only games when Wayne Smith got involved in the training week.
For me that's a clear case of correlation for the simple reason I don't believe such clarity and tactical focus can result from attendance at a couple of sessions.
Now that Smith's gone, we need an equivalent rugby mind involved in the setup - Rennie, Schmidt, or Brown, come closest to that in my opinion, and only Rennie is available.
We needed Schmidt to manage our brilliant WC run in 2023 and still lost the final (albeit by a single point and 14 men). World Cups can be notoriously fickle & often the best side doesn't even win it.
If we are to have a hope of winning in 2027, we need a technical mind such as Rennie (at the very least in an advisory role).
If your head coach can't provide the technical direction, then you definitely need well credentialed assistants. Competent but willing (and able) to articulate to the wider coaching group and players what opportunities they see.
I think the All Blacks would be immeasurably better off if they selected better, rewarded form, and had clarity at halftime.
If your head coach can't provide the technical direction, you need a new head coach.
Nah, they could be specialists in culture.
@antipodean said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@reprobate said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@antipodean said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@restofit said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The All Blacks had just two really impressive matches last year; the win over France Baby squad in Wellington 43-16 and the win over the Boks at Eden Park. Both were the only games when Wayne Smith got involved in the training week.
For me that's a clear case of correlation for the simple reason I don't believe such clarity and tactical focus can result from attendance at a couple of sessions.
Now that Smith's gone, we need an equivalent rugby mind involved in the setup - Rennie, Schmidt, or Brown, come closest to that in my opinion, and only Rennie is available.
We needed Schmidt to manage our brilliant WC run in 2023 and still lost the final (albeit by a single point and 14 men). World Cups can be notoriously fickle & often the best side doesn't even win it.
If we are to have a hope of winning in 2027, we need a technical mind such as Rennie (at the very least in an advisory role).
If your head coach can't provide the technical direction, then you definitely need well credentialed assistants. Competent but willing (and able) to articulate to the wider coaching group and players what opportunities they see.
I think the All Blacks would be immeasurably better off if they selected better, rewarded form, and had clarity at halftime.
If your head coach can't provide the technical direction, you need a new head coach.
Nah, they could be specialists in culture.
and "vibes".
Maybe we are getting too fixated by culture, instead of seeing it as a key factor in winning.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@reprobate said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@antipodean said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@restofit said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The All Blacks had just two really impressive matches last year; the win over France Baby squad in Wellington 43-16 and the win over the Boks at Eden Park. Both were the only games when Wayne Smith got involved in the training week.
For me that's a clear case of correlation for the simple reason I don't believe such clarity and tactical focus can result from attendance at a couple of sessions.
Now that Smith's gone, we need an equivalent rugby mind involved in the setup - Rennie, Schmidt, or Brown, come closest to that in my opinion, and only Rennie is available.
We needed Schmidt to manage our brilliant WC run in 2023 and still lost the final (albeit by a single point and 14 men). World Cups can be notoriously fickle & often the best side doesn't even win it.
If we are to have a hope of winning in 2027, we need a technical mind such as Rennie (at the very least in an advisory role).
If your head coach can't provide the technical direction, then you definitely need well credentialed assistants. Competent but willing (and able) to articulate to the wider coaching group and players what opportunities they see.
I think the All Blacks would be immeasurably better off if they selected better, rewarded form, and had clarity at halftime.
If your head coach can't provide the technical direction, you need a new head coach.
Nah, they could be specialists in culture.
and "vibes".
Maybe we are getting too fixated by culture, instead of seeing it as a key factor in winning.
@Victor-Meldrew well winning will make it much easier, losses, adversity and challenges will let you see how good the coach/leader is, or isnt...
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@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The new group come in at a considerable disadvantage. Right now I see us behind SA, France and England in the race for RWC27
Seems like a bit of catstrophising.
Under Razor's tenure we played each of England and France four times and won three against each.
Two of those games we won against England were after terrible performances when we limped home. England hammered us out of sight in the most recent game at Twickenham. And they didn't get out of third gear.
The wins against France were against France C when most of their superstars at home. And they were unconvincing wins.
And then there was losing to Argentina home and away too.
We are not going to forget for a long time how woeful the performances were under Robertson's tenure.
@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The new group come in at a considerable disadvantage. Right now I see us behind SA, France and England in the race for RWC27
Seems like a bit of catstrophising.
Under Razor's tenure we played each of England and France four times and won three against each.
Two of those games we won against England were after terrible performances when we limped home. England hammered us out of sight in the most recent game at Twickenham. And they didn't get out of third gear.
The wins against France were against France C when most of their superstars at home. And they were unconvincing wins.
And then there was losing to Argentina home and away too.
We are not going to forget for a long time how woeful the performances were under Robertson's tenure.
The question is - is there a significant gap between us and England/France?
We beat full strength England three times and lost badly once. If - as you're saying - Razor was a terrible coach, then as long as we get someone good to replace him, I'd say there's not really any gap to overcome. To reinforce my point, England got beaten by Scotland this morning.
Same deal with France. We played them at full strength on their turf and lost by a point.
We are IMO neck-and-neck with these guys.
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@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The new group come in at a considerable disadvantage. Right now I see us behind SA, France and England in the race for RWC27
Seems like a bit of catstrophising.
Under Razor's tenure we played each of England and France four times and won three against each.
Two of those games we won against England were after terrible performances when we limped home. England hammered us out of sight in the most recent game at Twickenham. And they didn't get out of third gear.
The wins against France were against France C when most of their superstars at home. And they were unconvincing wins.
And then there was losing to Argentina home and away too.
We are not going to forget for a long time how woeful the performances were under Robertson's tenure.
The question is - is there a significant gap between us and England/France?
We beat full strength England three times and lost badly once. If - as you're saying - Razor was a terrible coach, then as long as we get someone good to replace him, I'd say there's not really any gap to overcome. To reinforce my point, England got beaten by Scotland this morning.
Same deal with France. We played them at full strength on their turf and lost by a point.
We are IMO neck-and-neck with these guys.
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
We are IMO neck-and-neck with these guys.
Were, maybe. Possibly slipped a little and who knows under the new coach?
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@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
We are IMO neck-and-neck with these guys.
Were, maybe. Possibly slipped a little and who knows under the new coach?
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
We are IMO neck-and-neck with these guys.
Were, maybe. Possibly slipped a little and who knows under the new coach?
If Razor had stayed, bearing in mind the fractures in the squad that didn't appear to be resolvable, we were only going to fall back. This way we have a chance to turn a page and get back
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@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The new group come in at a considerable disadvantage. Right now I see us behind SA, France and England in the race for RWC27
Seems like a bit of catstrophising.
Under Razor's tenure we played each of England and France four times and won three against each.
Two of those games we won against England were after terrible performances when we limped home. England hammered us out of sight in the most recent game at Twickenham. And they didn't get out of third gear.
The wins against France were against France C when most of their superstars at home. And they were unconvincing wins.
And then there was losing to Argentina home and away too.
We are not going to forget for a long time how woeful the performances were under Robertson's tenure.
The question is - is there a significant gap between us and England/France?
We beat full strength England three times and lost badly once. If - as you're saying - Razor was a terrible coach, then as long as we get someone good to replace him, I'd say there's not really any gap to overcome. To reinforce my point, England got beaten by Scotland this morning.
Same deal with France. We played them at full strength on their turf and lost by a point.
We are IMO neck-and-neck with these guys.
South Africa are the best in the world and then the French 2nd IMHO. The best performances under Robertson were the loses against the Boks in Ellis Park in 2024 and against France in 2024.
Then it's a toss-up between England and the All Blacks for 3rd/4th in the world. England recently won 12 in a row including slaughtering us at Twickenham so they are 3rd for me, even if the wheels fell off fkr them yesterday.
I think we are better than the rest of Tier 1 but (with the exception of Wales) they are snapping at our heals. Ireland seem to be slipping, Australia are bloody good with everyone available but can't cover injuries to key men, Italy are on the rise a bit, Scotland mercurial, Ireland are aging but still dangerous.
