All Blacks - New Coach Selection
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@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The new group come in at a considerable disadvantage. Right now I see us behind SA, France and England in the race for RWC27
Seems like a bit of catstrophising.
Under Razor's tenure we played each of England and France four times and won three against each.
Two of those games we won against England were after terrible performances when we limped home. England hammered us out of sight in the most recent game at Twickenham. And they didn't get out of third gear.
The wins against France were against France C when most of their superstars at home. And they were unconvincing wins.
And then there was losing to Argentina home and away too.
We are not going to forget for a long time how woeful the performances were under Robertson's tenure.
The question is - is there a significant gap between us and England/France?
We beat full strength England three times and lost badly once. If - as you're saying - Razor was a terrible coach, then as long as we get someone good to replace him, I'd say there's not really any gap to overcome. To reinforce my point, England got beaten by Scotland this morning.
Same deal with France. We played them at full strength on their turf and lost by a point.
We are IMO neck-and-neck with these guys.
This is the thing.
When we get our shit together we can be as good as any AB team. RWC2023 against Ireland and the final, Ellis Park in 2022 and, to keep @reprobate happy, Eden park last year.
Genuinely think the on-field headspace thing is the issue, Gone backwards badly on that in the last 2 years. Get that right and anything's possible.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The new group come in at a considerable disadvantage. Right now I see us behind SA, France and England in the race for RWC27
Seems like a bit of catstrophising.
Under Razor's tenure we played each of England and France four times and won three against each.
Two of those games we won against England were after terrible performances when we limped home. England hammered us out of sight in the most recent game at Twickenham. And they didn't get out of third gear.
The wins against France were against France C when most of their superstars at home. And they were unconvincing wins.
And then there was losing to Argentina home and away too.
We are not going to forget for a long time how woeful the performances were under Robertson's tenure.
The question is - is there a significant gap between us and England/France?
We beat full strength England three times and lost badly once. If - as you're saying - Razor was a terrible coach, then as long as we get someone good to replace him, I'd say there's not really any gap to overcome. To reinforce my point, England got beaten by Scotland this morning.
Same deal with France. We played them at full strength on their turf and lost by a point.
We are IMO neck-and-neck with these guys.
This is the thing.
When we get our shit together we can be as good as any AB team. RWC2023 against Ireland and the final, Ellis Park in 2022 and, to keep @reprobate happy, Eden park last year.
Genuinely think the on-field headspace thing is the issue, Gone backwards badly on that in the last 2 years. Get that right and anything's possible.
There have been patches where we have looked good for sure - for me the first half of Boks 1 in 2024 is one where they really struggled to stay with us. Then we went to shit so badly that we lost the game...
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@Victor-Meldrew Biggest issue for me for the All Blacks is at 10. Do we have players there remotely as good as our main opponents?
Jalibert was superb for France today. So classy. They also have Ntamack. The Saffas have Sacha. England have Ford and the Smiths.
DMac looks good in patches but can't drive a Test for 80 minutes. BB is well past his best. Love is unproven. Mounga is good going forward but is a sieve in defence.
I think the new coach is going to have a massive job matching our opponents at First Five.
@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Victor-Meldrew Biggest issue for me for the All Blacks is at 10. Do we have players there remotely as good as our main opponents?
Jalibert was superb for France today. So classy. They also have Ntamack. The Saffas have Sacha. England have Ford and the Smiths.
DMac looks good in patches but can't drive a Test for 80 minutes. BB is well past his best. Love is unproven. Mounga is good going forward but is a sieve in defence.
I think the new coach is going to have a massive job matching our opponents at First Five.
I don't. The players you named have all looked imperious behind dominating forwards. It's what they do when it's an arm wrestle that counts.
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@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Victor-Meldrew Biggest issue for me for the All Blacks is at 10. Do we have players there remotely as good as our main opponents?
Jalibert was superb for France today. So classy. They also have Ntamack. The Saffas have Sacha. England have Ford and the Smiths.
DMac looks good in patches but can't drive a Test for 80 minutes. BB is well past his best. Love is unproven. Mounga is good going forward but is a sieve in defence.
I think the new coach is going to have a massive job matching our opponents at First Five.
I don't. The players you named have all looked imperious behind dominating forwards. It's what they do when it's an arm wrestle that counts.
@antipodean yeah we have the structure of a really good side, but we lacked the gameplan and leadership to change things when it wasnt working (this may or may not be a reflection on SB) but then what do you revert to if the game plan and/or style isnt very clear?
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Here’s an idea. Why don’t we wait to see who performs well in Super and deserves selection?
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Here’s an idea. Why don’t we wait to see who performs well in Super and deserves selection?
we talking about the coach still?
Jokes aside, Super isn't Test. Similar, but success no longer necessarily transfers - they have quite different requirements.
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@Victor-Meldrew Biggest issue for me for the All Blacks is at 10. Do we have players there remotely as good as our main opponents?
Jalibert was superb for France today. So classy. They also have Ntamack. The Saffas have Sacha. England have Ford and the Smiths.
DMac looks good in patches but can't drive a Test for 80 minutes. BB is well past his best. Love is unproven. Mounga is good going forward but is a sieve in defence.
I think the new coach is going to have a massive job matching our opponents at First Five.
@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
DMac looks good in patches but can't drive a Test for 80 minutes. BB is well past his best. Love is unproven. Mounga is good going forward but is a sieve in defence.
If Richie comes back as good as when he left, we'll be fine.
He's actually a pretty good defender - suffers the same problem as many little men, if their tackle position is compromised they're easily bumped off.
RWC tackle stats show:
Richie 75%
Handre Pollard 62%
Marcus Smith 47%We're in a significantly better position* than we were in 2011. When we had DC - Slade and Cruden who'd each started about two tests - and Beaver in the wilderness.
*Provided Richie hasn't faded.
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@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Here’s an idea. Why don’t we wait to see who performs well in Super and deserves selection?
we talking about the coach still?
Jokes aside, Super isn't Test. Similar, but success no longer necessarily transfers - they have quite different requirements.
@nzzp said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Here’s an idea. Why don’t we wait to see who performs well in Super and deserves selection?
we talking about the coach still?
Jokes aside, Super isn't Test. Similar, but success no longer necessarily transfers - they have quite different requirements.
its true....but how else to we work out who "might" make the step up, guess, its different but we have to give the people playing well in super first shot to step up
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Here’s an idea. Why don’t we wait to see who performs well in Super and deserves selection?
generally yes....but also im not sure we have the time to start completely from scratch
I think we need to use a combination, new young people showing the right stuff in super rugby deserve a shot.....incumbents cant use previous glory to keep their spot and more specifically they need to show they can still leanr new tricks
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@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Here’s an idea. Why don’t we wait to see who performs well in Super and deserves selection?
we talking about the coach still?
Jokes aside, Super isn't Test. Similar, but success no longer necessarily transfers - they have quite different requirements.
@nzzp said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Here’s an idea. Why don’t we wait to see who performs well in Super and deserves selection?
we talking about the coach still?
Jokes aside, Super isn't Test. Similar, but success no longer necessarily transfers - they have quite different requirements.
Nah, I was talking about the players here.
People calling for Ruben Love and DMac to do X and Y.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Here’s an idea. Why don’t we wait to see who performs well in Super and deserves selection?
we talking about the coach still?
Jokes aside, Super isn't Test. Similar, but success no longer necessarily transfers - they have quite different requirements.
its true....but how else to we work out who "might" make the step up, guess, its different but we have to give the people playing well in super first shot to step up
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Here’s an idea. Why don’t we wait to see who performs well in Super and deserves selection?
generally yes....but also im not sure we have the time to start completely from scratch
I think we need to use a combination, new young people showing the right stuff in super rugby deserve a shot.....incumbents cant use previous glory to keep their spot and more specifically they need to show they can still leanr new tricks
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Here’s an idea. Why don’t we wait to see who performs well in Super and deserves selection?
generally yes....but also im not sure we have the time to start completely from scratch
I think we need to use a combination, new young people showing the right stuff in super rugby deserve a shot.....incumbents cant use previous glory to keep their spot and more specifically they need to show they can still leanr new tricks
It depends how long ago that previous glory was. I don’t want to hear any more “we’ve selected this guy because he has so much experience” when he hasn’t been any good for years.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Here’s an idea. Why don’t we wait to see who performs well in Super and deserves selection?
generally yes....but also im not sure we have the time to start completely from scratch
I think we need to use a combination, new young people showing the right stuff in super rugby deserve a shot.....incumbents cant use previous glory to keep their spot and more specifically they need to show they can still leanr new tricks
It depends how long ago that previous glory was. I don’t want to hear any more “we’ve selected this guy because he has so much experience” when he hasn’t been any good for years.
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Here’s an idea. Why don’t we wait to see who performs well in Super and deserves selection?
generally yes....but also im not sure we have the time to start completely from scratch
I think we need to use a combination, new young people showing the right stuff in super rugby deserve a shot.....incumbents cant use previous glory to keep their spot and more specifically they need to show they can still leanr new tricks
It depends how long ago that previous glory was. I don’t want to hear any more “we’ve selected this guy because he has so much experience” when he hasn’t been any good for years.
thats what im saying, "cant" use previous glory, bacially if youve have a decent shot at international and either never stepped up or have fallen back then you actually have some x's next your name to have to clear where as new people have a clean slate
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Geez I have forgotten about the new coach announcement. lol think I must be getting immune to even thinking about it, there been so many whispers on here etc that I am just figuring someone will tell us when ready.
Just even listening to fellas down golf club etc were having a discussion last week ,even that kind of petered out. If 3 were interviewed as one rumour said etc, was Gatland the 3rd one etc?
A couple lauhed and said surely not as he did bugger all with Chiefs last time, but is still the most successful Wales have had , Then Joseph, he took Japan to QFs of WC, and of course Rennie who won a couple of Super titles , but at international level had worst record of any Wallaby coach when he stepped up to test level.
Lol I don't even get into discussions anymore as I see so many points for and against them all, I as confused as everyone seems to be.
We even throwing players who should be picked into the coach discussion on the thread now. -
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Here’s an idea. Why don’t we wait to see who performs well in Super and deserves selection?
generally yes....but also im not sure we have the time to start completely from scratch
I think we need to use a combination, new young people showing the right stuff in super rugby deserve a shot.....incumbents cant use previous glory to keep their spot and more specifically they need to show they can still leanr new tricks
It depends how long ago that previous glory was. I don’t want to hear any more “we’ve selected this guy because he has so much experience” when he hasn’t been any good for years.
thats what im saying, "cant" use previous glory, bacially if youve have a decent shot at international and either never stepped up or have fallen back then you actually have some x's next your name to have to clear where as new people have a clean slate
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Here’s an idea. Why don’t we wait to see who performs well in Super and deserves selection?
generally yes....but also im not sure we have the time to start completely from scratch
I think we need to use a combination, new young people showing the right stuff in super rugby deserve a shot.....incumbents cant use previous glory to keep their spot and more specifically they need to show they can still leanr new tricks
It depends how long ago that previous glory was. I don’t want to hear any more “we’ve selected this guy because he has so much experience” when he hasn’t been any good for years.
thats what im saying, "cant" use previous glory, bacially if youve have a decent shot at international and either never stepped up or have fallen back then you actually have some x's next your name to have to clear where as new people have a clean slate
Sorry, I read that as 'can'. The missing apostrophe threw me.
Ma'a Nonu could have used previous glory when he didn't perform in Super. Beauden Barrett can't.
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If it is Joseph. The best mutual time to announce it may be during the Highlanders bye week. Which is the first weekend of April.
It gives him a solid run and makes a clean break at a time that won't be too disruptive for the team.
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@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Devlin going against the grain
So in other words he doesnt know shit
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Devlin going against the grain
So in other words he doesnt know shit
I hope he's actually right for once and he is going to Japan and that means that Rennie is still in play ....
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NZ Rugby announced on Monday that Chris Kinraid and Chris Brown have been appointed as NZ Rugby’s CFO and CCO, respectively.
Kirk's doing a fabulous job.
If you need a job done properly, hire a Chris to do it!
As usual, I can neither confirm nor deny that I am the new CCO for NZ Rugby - or the Performance Coach at Munster..
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@antipodean yeah we have the structure of a really good side, but we lacked the gameplan and leadership to change things when it wasnt working (this may or may not be a reflection on SB) but then what do you revert to if the game plan and/or style isnt very clear?
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@antipodean yeah we have the structure of a really good side, but we lacked the gameplan and leadership to change things when it wasnt working (this may or may not be a reflection on SB) but then what do you revert to if the game plan and/or style isnt very clear?
Our 10 was expected to do far too much, and it made them all look poor at times. And all that ball playing behind the advantage line was turgid. Time to revert back to KISS, keep it simple stupid
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NZ Rugby announced on Monday that Chris Kinraid and Chris Brown have been appointed as NZ Rugby’s CFO and CCO, respectively.
Kirk's doing a fabulous job.
If you need a job done properly, hire a Chris to do it!
As usual, I can neither confirm nor deny that I am the new CCO for NZ Rugby - or the Performance Coach at Munster..
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
NZ Rugby announced on Monday that Chris Kinraid and Chris Brown have been appointed as NZ Rugby’s CFO and CCO, respectively.
Kirk's doing a fabulous job.
If you need a job done properly, hire a Chris to do it!
As usual, I can neither confirm nor deny that I am the new CCO for NZ Rugby - or the Performance Coach at Munster..
Well your handle isn't Chris K....
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@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
NZ Rugby announced on Monday that Chris Kinraid and Chris Brown have been appointed as NZ Rugby’s CFO and CCO, respectively.
Kirk's doing a fabulous job.
If you need a job done properly, hire a Chris to do it!
As usual, I can neither confirm nor deny that I am the new CCO for NZ Rugby - or the Performance Coach at Munster..
Well your handle isn't Chris K....
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NZ Rugby announced on Monday that Chris Kinraid and Chris Brown have been appointed as NZ Rugby’s CFO and CCO, respectively.
Kirk's doing a fabulous job.
If you need a job done properly, hire a Chris to do it!
As usual, I can neither confirm nor deny that I am the new CCO for NZ Rugby - or the Performance Coach at Munster..
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
David Kirk's doing a fabulous job.
If you need a job done properly, hire a
ChrisDavid to do it!Corrected for consistency.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Here’s an idea. Why don’t we wait to see who performs well in Super and deserves selection?
we talking about the coach still?
Jokes aside, Super isn't Test. Similar, but success no longer necessarily transfers - they have quite different requirements.
Nah, I was talking about the players here.
People calling for Ruben Love and DMac to do X and Y.
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@nzzp said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Here’s an idea. Why don’t we wait to see who performs well in Super and deserves selection?
we talking about the coach still?
Jokes aside, Super isn't Test. Similar, but success no longer necessarily transfers - they have quite different requirements.
Nah, I was talking about the players here.
People calling for Ruben Love and DMac to do X and Y.
You mean the guys who should've been in the 23 based on last couple of year's Super?
