All Blacks 2026
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I have been thinking about the issues with support that has been flagged with Papali’i.
I think it transcends issues around who is and who isn't the top coach.
It is about perceptions, personal or otherwise about what a responsible enployer should be doing for him as an employee.
Papali’i is an NZR employee. Employers are required under legislation to provide a safe workplace. Safe is subjective. Can be both mental and physical.
It may be that Papali’i just doesn't see NZR as an employer he can trust. Meaning it doesn't matter who the top coach is. He has been burnt.
Players in different generations weren't afforded the same rights as modern guys who are employees.
Just a different train of thought around the support angle.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2026:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2026:
Also the other problem is of course, there are only so many spots in ABs, so there will always be quite a few players that we will consider unlucky to make it.
This. Hoskins was unlucky, and it’s sad that Dalton is leaving, but there’s no way he was good enough to be ABs captain. Unfortunately, for every George Bridge and Simon Parker there will be others who miss out. But very few have been snubbed were/could have been top-line ABs.
Really ? They can't all be McCaws and Fitzpatricks......
Rueben Thorne and Taine Randell spring to mind. Sam Cane and Scott Barrett too. I don't thing DP suffers in comparison to them.
( not that we'll ever know )
This is by no means an attack on Papali’i but he has been very ineffective at international level, in my opinion. I question Scooter as captain, but he is (or at least has been) an international standard player.
Mo’unga and Sevu Reece are arguably two of the greatest Super players… but internationally they have both been very average. Good at best.
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2026:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2026:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2026:
Also the other problem is of course, there are only so many spots in ABs, so there will always be quite a few players that we will consider unlucky to make it.
This. Hoskins was unlucky, and it’s sad that Dalton is leaving, but there’s no way he was good enough to be ABs captain. Unfortunately, for every George Bridge and Simon Parker there will be others who miss out. But very few have been snubbed were/could have been top-line ABs.
Really ? They can't all be McCaws and Fitzpatricks......
Rueben Thorne and Taine Randell spring to mind. Sam Cane and Scott Barrett too. I don't thing DP suffers in comparison to them.
( not that we'll ever know )
This is by no means an attack on Papali’i but he has been very ineffective at international level, in my opinion. I question Scooter as captain, but he is (or at least has been) an international standard player.
Mo’unga and Sevu Reece are arguably two of the greatest Super players… but internationally they have both been very average. Good at best.
Yeah I disagree. We dominated possesion when he played 7 in almost every game and our defense was more accurate too. These were the ingredients that were missing during the Robertson era wheb Papali'i didn't play.
I dont see us getting that with Savea, Kirifi or Lakai.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I think we can ignore the trolling that players got chances because they saw a few minutes. Plummer is one of the best examples to focus on, because he was literally chased away due to the previous coaching team's fixation on Mo'unga.
But even Mounga proves my point. he was an All Black, but went to Japan, to get more money, not because he didn't get so called support etc or any shit rumour things As I said, it's about money, and maybe a lifestyle change etc, and that's fine. All this shit about lack of support or the other rumours is just made up stuff, unless I actually hear Dalton say it. Funnily enough ,I take him as an honest guy.
Also the other problem is of course, there are only so many spots in ABs, so there will always be quite a few players that we will consider unlucky to make it.Its always been the way - get dropped and out of favour - the money in Nz pales to what you can earn overseas so lots of players have always left quite quickly once their ab careers seem to be over.
Rugby players finish up playing when they are 35 if they are lucky. That means they have to continue as they have 50 years of living to do (give or take).
When you stop playing, Another million in the bank will go a long way, especially if you arent skilled with another career choice
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2026:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I think we can ignore the trolling that players got chances because they saw a few minutes. Plummer is one of the best examples to focus on, because he was literally chased away due to the previous coaching team's fixation on Mo'unga.
But even Mounga proves my point. he was an All Black, but went to Japan, to get more money, not because he didn't get so called support etc or any shit rumour things As I said, it's about money, and maybe a lifestyle change etc, and that's fine. All this shit about lack of support or the other rumours is just made up stuff, unless I actually hear Dalton say it. Funnily enough ,I take him as an honest guy.
Also the other problem is of course, there are only so many spots in ABs, so there will always be quite a few players that we will consider unlucky to make it.Its always been the way - get dropped and out of favour - the money in Nz pales to what you can earn overseas so lots of players have always left quite quickly once their ab careers seem to be over.
Rugby players finish up playing when they are 35 if they are lucky. That means they have to continue as they have 50 years of living to do (give or take).
When you stop playing, Another million in the bank will go a long way, especially if you arent skilled with another career choice
Yep exactly, noone is getting at Dalton for taking guaranteed money, just a fact.
I don't know who has read Anton Olivers book , he did after his first season at France after 2003 WC. He said as soon as he put on boots for Toulon , he knew he was never going to extend his contract, as he realised he was there only for money. As he described it when the day he stopped playing for the ABs, the music died!
I understand for many that play the game now, that's all they have ever done, and perhaps the pull of jersey isn't as it was.
That is what whoever takes over as coach should make a priority, a desire to wear the jersey and what it means should be first thing drummed into heads.
I know you and I have kind of discussed this elsewhere Grubs, and both agree the jersey and fern on it need to be the main reason you want to be an AB, not what you can earn. You should earn good many doing it, but shouldn't be what drives you to be an AB. -
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2026:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I think we can ignore the trolling that players got chances because they saw a few minutes. Plummer is one of the best examples to focus on, because he was literally chased away due to the previous coaching team's fixation on Mo'unga.
But even Mounga proves my point. he was an All Black, but went to Japan, to get more money, not because he didn't get so called support etc or any shit rumour things As I said, it's about money, and maybe a lifestyle change etc, and that's fine. All this shit about lack of support or the other rumours is just made up stuff, unless I actually hear Dalton say it. Funnily enough ,I take him as an honest guy.
Also the other problem is of course, there are only so many spots in ABs, so there will always be quite a few players that we will consider unlucky to make it.Its always been the way - get dropped and out of favour - the money in Nz pales to what you can earn overseas so lots of players have always left quite quickly once their ab careers seem to be over.
Rugby players finish up playing when they are 35 if they are lucky. That means they have to continue as they have 50 years of living to do (give or take).
When you stop playing, Another million in the bank will go a long way, especially if you arent skilled with another career choice
Yep exactly, noone is getting at Dalton for taking guaranteed money, just a fact.
I don't know who has read Anton Olivers book , he did after his first season at France after 2003 WC. He said as soon as he put on boots for Toulon , he knew he was never going to extend his contract, as he realised he was there only for money. As he described it when the day he stopped playing for the ABs, the music died!
I understand for many that play the game now, that's all they have ever done, and perhaps the pull of jersey isn't as it was.
That is what whoever takes over as coach should make a priority, a desire to wear the jersey and what it means should be first thing drummed into heads.
I know you and I have kind of discussed this elsewhere Grubs, and both agree the jersey and fern on it need to be the main reason you want to be an AB, not what you can earn. You should earn good many doing it, but shouldn't be what drives you to be an AB.@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2026:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I think we can ignore the trolling that players got chances because they saw a few minutes. Plummer is one of the best examples to focus on, because he was literally chased away due to the previous coaching team's fixation on Mo'unga.
But even Mounga proves my point. he was an All Black, but went to Japan, to get more money, not because he didn't get so called support etc or any shit rumour things As I said, it's about money, and maybe a lifestyle change etc, and that's fine. All this shit about lack of support or the other rumours is just made up stuff, unless I actually hear Dalton say it. Funnily enough ,I take him as an honest guy.
Also the other problem is of course, there are only so many spots in ABs, so there will always be quite a few players that we will consider unlucky to make it.Its always been the way - get dropped and out of favour - the money in Nz pales to what you can earn overseas so lots of players have always left quite quickly once their ab careers seem to be over.
Rugby players finish up playing when they are 35 if they are lucky. That means they have to continue as they have 50 years of living to do (give or take).
When you stop playing, Another million in the bank will go a long way, especially if you arent skilled with another career choice
Yep exactly, noone is getting at Dalton for taking guaranteed money, just a fact.
I don't know who has read Anton Olivers book , he did after his first season at France after 2003 WC. He said as soon as he put on boots for Toulon , he knew he was never going to extend his contract, as he realised he was there only for money. As he described it when the day he stopped playing for the ABs, the music died!
I understand for many that play the game now, that's all they have ever done, and perhaps the pull of jersey isn't as it was.
That is what whoever takes over as coach should make a priority, a desire to wear the jersey and what it means should be first thing drummed into heads.
I know you and I have kind of discussed this elsewhere Grubs, and both agree the jersey and fern on it need to be the main reason you want to be an AB, not what you can earn. You should earn good many doing it, but shouldn't be what drives you to be an AB.Its the Silverlight - Altrad - Adidas - Gallagher Insurance ABs thank you very much. ( Who play a minority of games in NZ so they can play in rugby metropolis like Baltimore instead )
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I have been thinking about the issues with support that has been flagged with Papali’i.
I think it transcends issues around who is and who isn't the top coach.
It is about perceptions, personal or otherwise about what a responsible enployer should be doing for him as an employee.
Papali’i is an NZR employee. Employers are required under legislation to provide a safe workplace. Safe is subjective. Can be both mental and physical.
It may be that Papali’i just doesn't see NZR as an employer he can trust. Meaning it doesn't matter who the top coach is. He has been burnt.
Players in different generations weren't afforded the same rights as modern guys who are employees.
Just a different train of thought around the support angle.
@SouthernMann said in All Blacks 2026:
I have been thinking about the issues with support that has been flagged with Papali’i.
I think it transcends issues around who is and who isn't the top coach.
It is about perceptions, personal or otherwise about what a responsible enployer should be doing for him as an employee.
Papali’i is an NZR employee. Employers are required under legislation to provide a safe workplace. Safe is subjective. Can be both mental and physical.
It may be that Papali’i just doesn't see NZR as an employer he can trust. Meaning it doesn't matter who the top coach is. He has been burnt.
Players in different generations weren't afforded the same rights as modern guys who are employees.
Just a different train of thought around the support angle.
I think this much closer to the crux of the issue.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
A steady player could have been exactly what the team needed to unlock what should’ve been a dangerous backline. Instead we were stuck with chip kicks and shit shovelling.
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The issue many people have isn’t just that certain players aren’t getting opportunities. It’s that the All Blacks have been struggling in key areas and there’s been little attempt to find alternatives. Let's use Beauden Barrett as an example. He's been the preferred choice at first five, but his performances have been declining for years and that trend is unlikely to reverse before the World Cup.
So what’s the better option: persist with Barrett and risk arriving at the tournament with him two years worse than he was in 2025 and ten years worse than the last time he was actually good, or invest meaningful game time in someone like Plummer or Love and see whether they can develop into genuine test-quality players by 2027?
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The issue many people have isn’t just that certain players aren’t getting opportunities. It’s that the All Blacks have been struggling in key areas and there’s been little attempt to find alternatives. Let's use Beauden Barrett as an example. He's been the preferred choice at first five, but his performances have been declining for years and that trend is unlikely to reverse before the World Cup.
So what’s the better option: persist with Barrett and risk arriving at the tournament with him two years worse than he was in 2025 and ten years worse than the last time he was actually good, or invest meaningful game time in someone like Plummer or Love and see whether they can develop into genuine test-quality players by 2027?
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2026:
The issue many people have isn’t just that certain players aren’t getting opportunities. It’s that the All Blacks have been struggling in key areas and there’s been little attempt to find alternatives. Let's use Beauden Barrett as an example. He's been the preferred choice at first five, but his performances have been declining for years and that trend is unlikely to reverse before the World Cup.
So what’s the better option: persist with Barrett and risk arriving at the tournament with him two years worse than he was in 2025 and ten years worse than the last time he was actually good, or invest meaningful game time in someone like Plummer or Love and see whether they can develop into genuine test-quality players by 2027?
Razor preferred to put it all on hold and wait for his golden boy to come home. The lack of courage is staggering to me even now
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@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards.
The thing is - Plummer didnt actually make a squad officially ever. He got brought in as injury cover and got 2 mins off the bench in a Bledisloe (and that was only cos Beaudie went down days before the test). That's it. He could not have stated his case more in the 2024 Blues season - he was in career best form and he still couldnt crack the AB main squad. He also knew Mounga was being chased so that was an additional player ahead of him in the pecking order going forward. It was a case of "if I cant crack the squad now i'm never going to crack it".
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I think Papalii would probably have been aware of some of the rumblings behind the scenes in regard to the current coaches - possibly more than anyone - but I don't think he necessarily would have foreseen them being out of a job now.
Not being selected probably prompted him to think more about financial security and his future, and the guaranteed big bucks of France vs the uncertainty here seems to have weighed large on him. I don't think this is solely down to his non-selection.
If he was a starting incumbent, I find it hard to see him making this choice - but we can't pretend that a guy who at no stage in his All Blacks career has been factually the number one openside flanker, was guaranteed to be that, even under new coaches - and he would be aware of that.
He might not be popular on here, but we are in a bit of a bubble - Ardie Savea is still viewed by many not only as an openside, but also our best one, and potentially our captain. You can debate the merits of that, but Papalii has chosen financial security - and I think his comments elude to that.
Has been hard done by? Yes.
Would he be leaving at this juncture if he was active member of the All Blacks matchday squad? Probably Not
Has he chosen financial security? Also yes. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards.
The thing is - Plummer didnt actually make a squad officially ever. He got brought in as injury cover and got 2 mins off the bench in a Bledisloe (and that was only cos Beaudie went down days before the test). That's it. He could not have stated his case more in the 2024 Blues season - he was in career best form and he still couldnt crack the AB main squad. He also knew Mounga was being chased so that was an additional player ahead of him in the pecking order going forward. It was a case of "if I cant crack the squad now i'm never going to crack it".
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards.
The thing is - Plummer didnt actually make a squad officially ever. He got brought in as injury cover and got 2 mins off the bench in a Bledisloe (and that was only cos Beaudie went down days before the test). That's it. He could not have stated his case more in the 2024 Blues season - he was in career best form and he still couldnt crack the AB main squad. He also knew Mounga was being chased so that was an additional player ahead of him in the pecking order going forward. It was a case of "if I cant crack the squad now i'm never going to crack it".
One good season. One season as starting 10 in a Super side.
I would have picked him - but he could most definitely have stated his case more, by doing it for more than a dozen games. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards.
The thing is - Plummer didnt actually make a squad officially ever. He got brought in as injury cover and got 2 mins off the bench in a Bledisloe (and that was only cos Beaudie went down days before the test). That's it. He could not have stated his case more in the 2024 Blues season - he was in career best form and he still couldnt crack the AB main squad. He also knew Mounga was being chased so that was an additional player ahead of him in the pecking order going forward. It was a case of "if I cant crack the squad now i'm never going to crack it".
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2026:
The thing is - Plummer didnt actually make a squad officially ever. He got brought in as injury cover and got 2 mins off the bench in a Bledisloe (and that was only cos Beaudie went down days before the test). That's it. He could not have stated his case more in the 2024 Blues season - he was in career best form and he still couldnt crack the AB main squad. He also knew Mounga was being chased so that was an additional player ahead of him in the pecking order going forward. It was a case of "if I cant crack the squad now i'm never going to crack it".
and that 2 mins would have added a bit to the contract he got
no doubt making AB is a nationist thing; but also a nice overseas contract fattener for a player
making AB for a player nowdays, probably about 50/50 nationist/business in my reckoningif dalton hadn't yet made AB, he'd still be here, for sure, to try and get the AB stamp
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2026:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I think we can ignore the trolling that players got chances because they saw a few minutes. Plummer is one of the best examples to focus on, because he was literally chased away due to the previous coaching team's fixation on Mo'unga.
But even Mounga proves my point. he was an All Black, but went to Japan, to get more money, not because he didn't get so called support etc or any shit rumour things As I said, it's about money, and maybe a lifestyle change etc, and that's fine. All this shit about lack of support or the other rumours is just made up stuff, unless I actually hear Dalton say it. Funnily enough ,I take him as an honest guy.
Also the other problem is of course, there are only so many spots in ABs, so there will always be quite a few players that we will consider unlucky to make it.Its always been the way - get dropped and out of favour - the money in Nz pales to what you can earn overseas so lots of players have always left quite quickly once their ab careers seem to be over.
Rugby players finish up playing when they are 35 if they are lucky. That means they have to continue as they have 50 years of living to do (give or take).
When you stop playing, Another million in the bank will go a long way, especially if you arent skilled with another career choice
Yep exactly, noone is getting at Dalton for taking guaranteed money, just a fact.
I don't know who has read Anton Olivers book , he did after his first season at France after 2003 WC. He said as soon as he put on boots for Toulon , he knew he was never going to extend his contract, as he realised he was there only for money. As he described it when the day he stopped playing for the ABs, the music died!
I understand for many that play the game now, that's all they have ever done, and perhaps the pull of jersey isn't as it was.
That is what whoever takes over as coach should make a priority, a desire to wear the jersey and what it means should be first thing drummed into heads.
I know you and I have kind of discussed this elsewhere Grubs, and both agree the jersey and fern on it need to be the main reason you want to be an AB, not what you can earn. You should earn good many doing it, but shouldn't be what drives you to be an AB.Its the Silverlight - Altrad - Adidas - Gallagher Insurance ABs thank you very much. ( Who play a minority of games in NZ so they can play in rugby metropolis like Baltimore instead )
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2026:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I think we can ignore the trolling that players got chances because they saw a few minutes. Plummer is one of the best examples to focus on, because he was literally chased away due to the previous coaching team's fixation on Mo'unga.
But even Mounga proves my point. he was an All Black, but went to Japan, to get more money, not because he didn't get so called support etc or any shit rumour things As I said, it's about money, and maybe a lifestyle change etc, and that's fine. All this shit about lack of support or the other rumours is just made up stuff, unless I actually hear Dalton say it. Funnily enough ,I take him as an honest guy.
Also the other problem is of course, there are only so many spots in ABs, so there will always be quite a few players that we will consider unlucky to make it.Its always been the way - get dropped and out of favour - the money in Nz pales to what you can earn overseas so lots of players have always left quite quickly once their ab careers seem to be over.
Rugby players finish up playing when they are 35 if they are lucky. That means they have to continue as they have 50 years of living to do (give or take).
When you stop playing, Another million in the bank will go a long way, especially if you arent skilled with another career choice
Yep exactly, noone is getting at Dalton for taking guaranteed money, just a fact.
I don't know who has read Anton Olivers book , he did after his first season at France after 2003 WC. He said as soon as he put on boots for Toulon , he knew he was never going to extend his contract, as he realised he was there only for money. As he described it when the day he stopped playing for the ABs, the music died!
I understand for many that play the game now, that's all they have ever done, and perhaps the pull of jersey isn't as it was.
That is what whoever takes over as coach should make a priority, a desire to wear the jersey and what it means should be first thing drummed into heads.
I know you and I have kind of discussed this elsewhere Grubs, and both agree the jersey and fern on it need to be the main reason you want to be an AB, not what you can earn. You should earn good many doing it, but shouldn't be what drives you to be an AB.Its the Silverlight - Altrad - Adidas - Gallagher Insurance ABs thank you very much. ( Who play a minority of games in NZ so they can play in rugby metropolis like Baltimore instead )
It's been a long time since they (or any sports team) haven't had a name on playing gear (apart from WC). As long as it black with silver fern, I want it to be the what is important to players.
-
@SouthernMann said in All Blacks 2026:
The thinking around Casey should be part of the evolution of how we view players. As a hybrid player, he is probably best suited to the no20 jersey.
May start in Super. His future in international footy can be split across the 7/8 role as an 25/30 minute impact player.
Neat. Another one. We have far too many of these at the moment, we need really fucking good specialists.
Edit. I see @taniwharugby got to this well ahead of me. There must be a name for this.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@SouthernMann said in All Blacks 2026:
The thinking around Casey should be part of the evolution of how we view players. As a hybrid player, he is probably best suited to the no20 jersey.
May start in Super. His future in international footy can be split across the 7/8 role as an 25/30 minute impact player.
Neat. Another one. We have far too many of these at the moment, we need really fucking good specialists.
Edit. I see @taniwharugby got to this well ahead of me. There must be a name for this.
Can't think of one
-
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@SouthernMann said in All Blacks 2026:
The thinking around Casey should be part of the evolution of how we view players. As a hybrid player, he is probably best suited to the no20 jersey.
May start in Super. His future in international footy can be split across the 7/8 role as an 25/30 minute impact player.
Neat. Another one. We have far too many of these at the moment, we need really fucking good specialists.
Edit. I see @taniwharugby got to this well ahead of me. There must be a name for this.
Can't think of one
@booboo said in All Blacks 2026:
Edit. I see @taniwharugby got to this well ahead of me. There must be a name for this.
Can't think of one
a sporting sciolism?
-
I think Papalii would probably have been aware of some of the rumblings behind the scenes in regard to the current coaches - possibly more than anyone - but I don't think he necessarily would have foreseen them being out of a job now.
Not being selected probably prompted him to think more about financial security and his future, and the guaranteed big bucks of France vs the uncertainty here seems to have weighed large on him. I don't think this is solely down to his non-selection.
If he was a starting incumbent, I find it hard to see him making this choice - but we can't pretend that a guy who at no stage in his All Blacks career has been factually the number one openside flanker, was guaranteed to be that, even under new coaches - and he would be aware of that.
He might not be popular on here, but we are in a bit of a bubble - Ardie Savea is still viewed by many not only as an openside, but also our best one, and potentially our captain. You can debate the merits of that, but Papalii has chosen financial security - and I think his comments elude to that.
Has been hard done by? Yes.
Would he be leaving at this juncture if he was active member of the All Blacks matchday squad? Probably Not
Has he chosen financial security? Also yes.@frugby said in All Blacks 2026:
If he was a starting incumbent, I find it hard to see him making this choice - but we can't pretend that a guy who at no stage in his All Blacks career has been factually the number one openside flanker, was guaranteed to be that, even under new coaches - and he would be aware of that.
He has been factually the number one openside since Cane retired, and there's a very strong argument to be made that he was the number one openside in Cane's last year or two. But of course that coincided with the anti-Blues brigade taking over. Akira was the number one blindside at that time, and Hoskins was the number one eight. By the end of that season there was some distance between them and the other loosies in NZ. I can't really overstate what an absolute fucking scandal it is that they have not been regulars for the ABs since then, and by fuck have the ABs suffered as a result.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2026:
If he was a starting incumbent, I find it hard to see him making this choice - but we can't pretend that a guy who at no stage in his All Blacks career has been factually the number one openside flanker, was guaranteed to be that, even under new coaches - and he would be aware of that.
He has been factually the number one openside since Cane retired, and there's a very strong argument to be made that he was the number one openside in Cane's last year or two. But of course that coincided with the anti-Blues brigade taking over. Akira was the number one blindside at that time, and Hoskins was the number one eight. By the end of that season there was some distance between them and the other loosies in NZ. I can't really overstate what an absolute fucking scandal it is that they have not been regulars for the ABs since then, and by fuck have the ABs suffered as a result.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2026:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2026:
If he was a starting incumbent, I find it hard to see him making this choice - but we can't pretend that a guy who at no stage in his All Blacks career has been factually the number one openside flanker, was guaranteed to be that, even under new coaches - and he would be aware of that.
He has been factually the number one openside since Cane retired, and there's a very strong argument to be made that he was the number one openside in Cane's last year or two. But of course that coincided with the anti-Blues brigade taking over. Akira was the number one blindside at that time, and Hoskins was the number one eight. By the end of that season there was some distance between them and the other loosies in NZ. I can't really overstate what an absolute fucking scandal it is that they have not been regulars for the ABs since then, and by fuck have the ABs suffered as a result.
Papalii hasn’t been factually number one. Factually number one is the first pick in the jersey. That isn’t even for debate.
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@SouthernMann said in All Blacks 2026:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2026:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:
Couldn't agree more .That exactly what I was saying, he's not going because of lak of support , or for the rumour etc, he going because the certainty of the money is what he wants.
I in no way have a problem with him for that.He's not exactly going to come out and talk about these reasons publicly - at least not yet
Young people these days. Not hard like the men of the 70s. They just got on and did what was needed!
Leaving the kids in the car while they went to the pub then driving home drunk was needed?
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@SouthernMann said in All Blacks 2026:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2026:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:
Couldn't agree more .That exactly what I was saying, he's not going because of lak of support , or for the rumour etc, he going because the certainty of the money is what he wants.
I in no way have a problem with him for that.He's not exactly going to come out and talk about these reasons publicly - at least not yet
Young people these days. Not hard like the men of the 70s. They just got on and did what was needed!
Leaving the kids in the car while they went to the pub then driving home drunk was needed?
You'd be amazed at what the hard men of the 60's and 70's got up to.. When I was growing up in Lower Hutt, there was an AB nearby well-known as a wife-beater.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
