All Blacks - New Coach Selection
-
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
More about having time to properly watch and analyse all the games while not being preoccupied with leading a team to glory.
Regardless, wouldn't hurt to have a bit of separation between Joseph and the Highlanders before he has to start selecting his team, just to minimise (perceptions of) bias.
Fortunately we aren't loaded with superstar talent. There won't be too many opportunities to accuse JJ of picking his boys.
We are only looking at
De Groot
Jim
TangitauAs guys likely guaranteed to make it
With
Withy
Howden
JRK
FakatavaThe outside chances.
@SouthernMann said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
More about having time to properly watch and analyse all the games while not being preoccupied with leading a team to glory.
Regardless, wouldn't hurt to have a bit of separation between Joseph and the Highlanders before he has to start selecting his team, just to minimise (perceptions of) bias.
Fortunately we aren't loaded with superstar talent. There won't be too many opportunities to accuse JJ of picking his boys.
We are only looking at
De Groot
Jim
TangitauAs guys likely guaranteed to make it
With
Withy
Howden
JRK
FakatavaThe outside chances.
Howden might have a good chance?
-
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
More about having time to properly watch and analyse all the games while not being preoccupied with leading a team to glory.
Regardless, wouldn't hurt to have a bit of separation between Joseph and the Highlanders before he has to start selecting his team, just to minimise (perceptions of) bias.
Fortunately we aren't loaded with superstar talent. There won't be too many opportunities to accuse JJ of picking his boys.
We are only looking at
De Groot
Jim
TangitauAs guys likely guaranteed to make it
With
Withy
Howden
JRK
FakatavaThe outside chances.
@SouthernMann said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
More about having time to properly watch and analyse all the games while not being preoccupied with leading a team to glory.
Regardless, wouldn't hurt to have a bit of separation between Joseph and the Highlanders before he has to start selecting his team, just to minimise (perceptions of) bias.
Fortunately we aren't loaded with superstar talent. There won't be too many opportunities to accuse JJ of picking his boys.
We are only looking at
De Groot
Jim
TangitauAs guys likely guaranteed to make it
With
Withy
Howden
JRK
FakatavaThe outside chances.
someone will always claim hes playing favs if more than a couple make it and point to the years not long ago where we had what...... one?
-
Liam Napier picks Rennie as his candidate.
How good is his sauce normally? I would think it is a bit dangerous to chose one and get it wrong, when you'll be attempting to work with them in the future.
He has always been highly regarded, though. Speaking at the Wairarapa Bush rugby sports award function, Sir Graham Henry bemoaned NZ Rugby letting Rennie go to the Wallabies, stating he should have been All Blacks coach instead of Ian Foster.
-
Henry's comments were pretty clear in 2020: https://www.rugby.com.au/news/2020/10/16/bledisloe-cup-graham-henry-says-dave-rennie-should-be-all-blacks-coach-not-ian-foster
But this Napier article, I am not sure if he is hinting at all that he thinks he know something or this is just his preference.
-
Liam Napier picks Rennie as his candidate.
How good is his sauce normally? I would think it is a bit dangerous to chose one and get it wrong, when you'll be attempting to work with them in the future.
He has always been highly regarded, though. Speaking at the Wairarapa Bush rugby sports award function, Sir Graham Henry bemoaned NZ Rugby letting Rennie go to the Wallabies, stating he should have been All Blacks coach instead of Ian Foster.
-
@gt12 Liam Napier has been saying who he prefers for the past few weeks.
I think his two points are strong.
- Rennie has the superior overall record.
- Rennie is a superior man manager to Joseph
@Frank said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@gt12 Liam Napier has been saying who he prefers for the past few weeks.
I think his two points are strong.
- Rennie has the superior overall record.
- Rennie is a superior man manager to Joseph
Actually at test rugby JJ's record is stronger as Rennie coached Wallabies to their worst ever record. Though I don't take lot of notice of that, and no idea of either's man management.
But Napier like any of us can select any points that works to push the case of who he prefers. -
@Frank said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@gt12 Liam Napier has been saying who he prefers for the past few weeks.
I think his two points are strong.
- Rennie has the superior overall record.
- Rennie is a superior man manager to Joseph
Actually at test rugby JJ's record is stronger as Rennie coached Wallabies to their worst ever record. Though I don't take lot of notice of that, and no idea of either's man management.
But Napier like any of us can select any points that works to push the case of who he prefers.@Dan54 said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Frank said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@gt12 Liam Napier has been saying who he prefers for the past few weeks.
I think his two points are strong.
- Rennie has the superior overall record.
- Rennie is a superior man manager to Joseph
Actually at test rugby JJ's record is stronger as Rennie coached Wallabies to their worst ever record. Though I don't take lot of notice of that, and no idea of either's man management.
But Napier like any of us can select any points that works to push the case of who he prefers.Rennie doesn't have the worst Aus record of the pro era (that's Jones 22%) Rennie's record is roughly same as Schmidt around 40%.
You're also got to remember Dave essentially built the entire spine of Schmidt's Wallabies - all their most valuable players Bell, Valetini, Frost, Ikitau, McReight, Wilson, McDermott, T.Wright, etc.. were all developed by Rennie (he blooded them all very early, Bell was just 20 years old on debut) after Wallabies lost almost all their senior players post-2019.
Rennie had the biggest rebuild job in Wallabies history, combined with Covid destroying Australian rugby financially (to the point where the game was on the brink of having to revert back to amateur status) I can't think of any Wallabies coach who was subject to worse circumstances than Rennie.
-
I think the idea that it takes New Zealand Rugby the best part of two months to pick between the two blokes they were almost certainly considering when they made the call to sack Robertson probably hasn't received enough heat.
They should have identified their candidates, and carried out interviews and a full process within two weeks. It isn't like they didn't know who was available when they made the call. I could understand if there was a delay due to a contracting issue, but the leaks are that they are carrying out a process of some description with Rennie this week. Makes you wonder what they were actually doing in the three weeks after Robertson was sacked.
-
after the last two selection processes I was hoping that there would be no journalists pushing a candidate . Robertson's cheerleaders (not talking posters here) have been silent
@ploughboy said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
after the last two selection processes I was hoping that there would be no journalists pushing a candidate . Robertson's cheerleaders (not talking posters here) have been silent
Journalists have to give opinions.
They are are under no duty to be silent. -
@ploughboy said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
after the last two selection processes I was hoping that there would be no journalists pushing a candidate . Robertson's cheerleaders (not talking posters here) have been silent
Journalists have to give opinions.
They are are under no duty to be silent.@Frank said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
after the last two selection processes I was hoping that there would be no journalists pushing a candidate . Robertson's cheerleaders (not talking posters here) have been silent
Journalists have to give opinions.
They are are under no duty to be silent.depends on the journalist. some are opinion writers and some report. generally our sports journalist are reporters
any way the point was making was that I hoping we wouldn't have a situation like last time where reporters had a campaign for one coach. -
@Dan54 said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Frank said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@gt12 Liam Napier has been saying who he prefers for the past few weeks.
I think his two points are strong.
- Rennie has the superior overall record.
- Rennie is a superior man manager to Joseph
Actually at test rugby JJ's record is stronger as Rennie coached Wallabies to their worst ever record. Though I don't take lot of notice of that, and no idea of either's man management.
But Napier like any of us can select any points that works to push the case of who he prefers.Rennie doesn't have the worst Aus record of the pro era (that's Jones 22%) Rennie's record is roughly same as Schmidt around 40%.
You're also got to remember Dave essentially built the entire spine of Schmidt's Wallabies - all their most valuable players Bell, Valetini, Frost, Ikitau, McReight, Wilson, McDermott, T.Wright, etc.. were all developed by Rennie (he blooded them all very early, Bell was just 20 years old on debut) after Wallabies lost almost all their senior players post-2019.
Rennie had the biggest rebuild job in Wallabies history, combined with Covid destroying Australian rugby financially (to the point where the game was on the brink of having to revert back to amateur status) I can't think of any Wallabies coach who was subject to worse circumstances than Rennie.
@restofit said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Frank said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@gt12 Liam Napier has been saying who he prefers for the past few weeks.
I think his two points are strong.
- Rennie has the superior overall record.
- Rennie is a superior man manager to Joseph
Actually at test rugby JJ's record is stronger as Rennie coached Wallabies to their worst ever record. Though I don't take lot of notice of that, and no idea of either's man management.
But Napier like any of us can select any points that works to push the case of who he prefers.Rennie doesn't have the worst Aus record of the pro era (that's Jones 22%) Rennie's record is roughly same as Schmidt around 40%.
You're also got to remember Dave essentially built the entire spine of Schmidt's Wallabies - all their most valuable players Bell, Valetini, Frost, Ikitau, McReight, Wilson, McDermott, T.Wright, etc.. were all developed by Rennie (he blooded them all very early, Bell was just 20 years old on debut) after Wallabies lost almost all their senior players post-2019.
Rennie had the biggest rebuild job in Wallabies history, combined with Covid destroying Australian rugby financially (to the point where the game was on the brink of having to revert back to amateur status) I can't think of any Wallabies coach who was subject to worse circumstances than Rennie.
Mate I not against Rennie by any means and think he was shafted in Wallabies, but what I meant you can make anything work with your argument when pushing for a coach. I keep forgetting that Jones even coached Wallabies to be honest when thinking of coaching records. I would be stoked with either Joseph ar Rennie, as long as they kick some arse and remind every player the Black jersey is everything.
-
I think the idea that it takes New Zealand Rugby the best part of two months to pick between the two blokes they were almost certainly considering when they made the call to sack Robertson probably hasn't received enough heat.
They should have identified their candidates, and carried out interviews and a full process within two weeks. It isn't like they didn't know who was available when they made the call. I could understand if there was a delay due to a contracting issue, but the leaks are that they are carrying out a process of some description with Rennie this week. Makes you wonder what they were actually doing in the three weeks after Robertson was sacked.
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
I think the idea that it takes New Zealand Rugby the best part of two months to pick between the two blokes they were almost certainly considering when they made the call to sack Robertson probably hasn't received enough heat.
They should have identified their candidates, and carried out interviews and a full process within two weeks. It isn't like they didn't know who was available when they made the call. I could understand if there was a delay due to a contracting issue, but the leaks are that they are carrying out a process of some description with Rennie this week. Makes you wonder what they were actually doing in the three weeks after Robertson was sacked.
And imagine how many would be in forums/papers talking about rushed process etc. There is no way only 2 blokes should of been considered, and they seem to be looking at both coaches actually doing job, and talking to those involved with them. I say good take your time and get it right. The general rugby population in NZ would expect the job to be done properly.
-
@restofit said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Frank said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@gt12 Liam Napier has been saying who he prefers for the past few weeks.
I think his two points are strong.
- Rennie has the superior overall record.
- Rennie is a superior man manager to Joseph
Actually at test rugby JJ's record is stronger as Rennie coached Wallabies to their worst ever record. Though I don't take lot of notice of that, and no idea of either's man management.
But Napier like any of us can select any points that works to push the case of who he prefers.Rennie doesn't have the worst Aus record of the pro era (that's Jones 22%) Rennie's record is roughly same as Schmidt around 40%.
You're also got to remember Dave essentially built the entire spine of Schmidt's Wallabies - all their most valuable players Bell, Valetini, Frost, Ikitau, McReight, Wilson, McDermott, T.Wright, etc.. were all developed by Rennie (he blooded them all very early, Bell was just 20 years old on debut) after Wallabies lost almost all their senior players post-2019.
Rennie had the biggest rebuild job in Wallabies history, combined with Covid destroying Australian rugby financially (to the point where the game was on the brink of having to revert back to amateur status) I can't think of any Wallabies coach who was subject to worse circumstances than Rennie.
Mate I not against Rennie by any means and think he was shafted in Wallabies, but what I meant you can make anything work with your argument when pushing for a coach. I keep forgetting that Jones even coached Wallabies to be honest when thinking of coaching records. I would be stoked with either Joseph ar Rennie, as long as they kick some arse and remind every player the Black jersey is everything.
@Dan54 said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
the Black jersey is everything.
this is such outdated bullshit that absolutely will not resonate at all.
These guys know rugby as nothing else but their job. They're aren't rugby nuffies talking shit on the internet, they are young guys with a certain set of skills that allow them to make a good living. Did they once play for fun? yes. But they were in the pro pipeline since they were kids.
To them the Black jersey lets them play test rugby and be well remunerated while living in NZ, and most probably very little else.
"pashun!" doesn't win professional rugby games, plans, skills, and execution does.
-
I think the idea that it takes New Zealand Rugby the best part of two months to pick between the two blokes they were almost certainly considering when they made the call to sack Robertson probably hasn't received enough heat.
They should have identified their candidates, and carried out interviews and a full process within two weeks. It isn't like they didn't know who was available when they made the call. I could understand if there was a delay due to a contracting issue, but the leaks are that they are carrying out a process of some description with Rennie this week. Makes you wonder what they were actually doing in the three weeks after Robertson was sacked.
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
I think the idea that it takes New Zealand Rugby the best part of two months to pick between the two blokes
I am relaxed about it. Due diligence around top appointments takes time and so can contract negotiations.
-
That article hints that Joseph chased away some talented assistants, one of whom I'd really like to have back in NZ (Kenny Lynn).
My biggest issue with Joseph is that he never really did much with the Japanese team, so in terms of international experience - especially of which we care right now, such as identifying and bringing through young talent - Rennie has actually worked with a higher tier team and he was doing fantastic things with that young Wallaby group. He was properly screwed and good fucking job for taking on that role (sorry, I had to sneak in one shot).
-
That article hints that Joseph chased away some talented assistants, one of whom I'd really like to have back in NZ (Kenny Lynn).
My biggest issue with Joseph is that he never really did much with the Japanese team, so in terms of international experience - especially of which we care right now, such as identifying and bringing through young talent - Rennie has actually worked with a higher tier team and he was doing fantastic things with that young Wallaby group. He was properly screwed and good fucking job for taking on that role (sorry, I had to sneak in one shot).
@gt12 said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
That article hints that Joseph chased away some talented assistants, one of whom I'd really like to have back in NZ (Kenny Lynn).
My biggest issue with Joseph is that he never really did much with the Japanese team, so in terms of international experience - especially of which we care right now, such as identifying and bringing through young talent - Rennie has actually worked with a higher tier team and he was doing fantastic things with that young Wallaby group. He was properly screwed and good fucking job for taking on that role (sorry, I had to sneak in one shot).
I’m not sure it is fair to make an argument that Joseph didn’t do much (made a RWC QF), and to say Rennie did fantastic things.
As for the assistants. He didn’t get on with Tom Donnelly, but he sucked. He got on well with Kenny Lynn, but the offer to go to international rugby was too good. He has been mentioned to me as a possible Joseph Head Coach replacement. Dillon was let to go to bring in Kidwell, early days but looks a master stroke. Unsure on Flutey, but he was no great loss.
