All Blacks v Ireland II
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I watched the game again last night, mostly without interruption, from the point of Barrett's try to the game clincher (from about 15 mins to 66 mins).
We got severely smacked in the possession stakes, especially early in the third quarter, thanks to some dumb exit plays and being panicky with the ball. I heard the comms say it was 88% possession to the irish in the first 10-12 mins of the 2nd half.
There was a definite sense in the third quarter that we were not contesting at ruck and maul time, to avoid sanction. I'm not sure what the penalty count was in that quarter but other than Fekitoa's idiocy (about 48 mins in) our discipline improved substantially from the second quarter.
When Jackson kicked a penalty to take it to 14-9 (about 58 mins or so), there was an avalanche of subs. Ireland replaced tight forwards and we brought on TJP and AC for AS and JS. AC straight away did his short kickoff which BBBR brilliantly retrieved by getting his feet over the Irish 10m line and reaching back for it. We actually played really well from here in the eight minutes or so leading up to the game clincher, with some improved passing interchanges and the Dagg to Cruden dropped pass opportunity being a sign that the Irish intensity had dropped.
In hindsight, we were in control of the final 22 mins of the match. It certainly petered out after Fekitoa's 2nd try.
The tactical change to sub the inside backs (though Barrett was outstanding at 10), plus the improvement in our discipline, plus the continued powerhouse defence, had a big bearing on the game.
It was an Irish comms feed through YouTube (very basic graphics). I thought the commentators (who didn't mention each other by name) were a little pro-Irish but were mostly talking up the intensity and speed of the game. I though the brutality of the tackling was very 6 Nations.
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Ah now there are more level headed reactions in fairness:
http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-missed-chances-all-blacks-3092438-Nov2016/
http://www.the42.ie/ireland-all-blacks-aviva-match-report-2016-3090747-Nov2016/
I'd also point out that there cannot be any question that NZ have a discipline issue at the moment. 12-4 was the penalty count in Chicago. 14-4 in Dublin. 3 yellow cards across both Tests to 0. 2 citings to 0. And the citing commissioner apparently referred 12 incidents in the game on Saturday back to the teams. 11 of those to NZ. While I don't like the whinging and the moaning it's pretty clear there is a discipline issue there that can't be ignored.
@molloyjh said in Ireland II:
Ah now there are more level headed reactions in fairness:
http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-missed-chances-all-blacks-3092438-Nov2016/
http://www.the42.ie/ireland-all-blacks-aviva-match-report-2016-3090747-Nov2016/
I'd also point out that there cannot be any question that NZ have a discipline issue at the moment. 12-4 was the penalty count in Chicago. 14-4 in Dublin. 3 yellow cards across both Tests to 0. 2 citings to 0. And the citing commissioner apparently referred 12 incidents in the game on Saturday back to the teams. 11 of those to NZ. While I don't like the whinging and the moaning it's pretty clear there is a discipline issue there that can't be ignored.
The Test on the weekend was a one-sided joke from the refereeing. There should have been at least one yellow card for Ireland and Aaron Smith should never have been penalised. Ireland had carte blanche at the ruck and how you get a scrum for being the last man in defence knocking a pass down is beyond baffling.
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@molloyjh said in Ireland II:
Ah now there are more level headed reactions in fairness:
http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-missed-chances-all-blacks-3092438-Nov2016/
http://www.the42.ie/ireland-all-blacks-aviva-match-report-2016-3090747-Nov2016/
I'd also point out that there cannot be any question that NZ have a discipline issue at the moment. 12-4 was the penalty count in Chicago. 14-4 in Dublin. 3 yellow cards across both Tests to 0. 2 citings to 0. And the citing commissioner apparently referred 12 incidents in the game on Saturday back to the teams. 11 of those to NZ. While I don't like the whinging and the moaning it's pretty clear there is a discipline issue there that can't be ignored.
The Test on the weekend was a one-sided joke from the refereeing. There should have been at least one yellow card for Ireland and Aaron Smith should never have been penalised. Ireland had carte blanche at the ruck and how you get a scrum for being the last man in defence knocking a pass down is beyond baffling.
@antipodean
Fuck imagine if an All Black did that knockdown and only a scrum resulted...
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@Milk good from EOS, good analysis, rational thought. I'm giving the usually excellent journo the benefit of the doubt that he is only drawing discussion on the ref rantings that have been going on.
@mariner4life said in Ireland II:
@Milk good from EOS, good analysis, rational thought. I'm giving the usually excellent journo the benefit of the doubt that he is only drawing discussion on the ref rantings that have been going on.
Well, he's certainly trying his best. I think it slipped a bit when he used the number of citing submissions as evidence of our playing style. That said, perhaps I'm being blinkered in ignoring that as evidence.
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@booboo said in Ireland II:
@Billy-Tell said in Ireland II:
The good news is we have Wayne Barnes this week.
Oh good.
C'mon, you know you love his headmaster approach, mixed with a dose of conviviality ("well done Kieran, bien joué Pascal") spiced up with some schoolboy French "lâchez sept", a no interference approach to the breakdown, and his ability to find an arcane law written in small print from 1906 to pull out at a crucial moment.
@Billy-Tell said in Ireland II:
@booboo said in Ireland II:
@Billy-Tell said in Ireland II:
The good news is we have Wayne Barnes this week.
Oh good.
C'mon, you know you love his headmaster approach, mixed with a dose of conviviality ("well done Kieran, bien joué Pascal") spiced up with some schoolboy French "lâchez sept", a no interference approach to the breakdown, and his ability to find an arcane law written in small print from 1906 to pull out at a crucial moment.
I'd be happy if he learned what a forward pass was.
I'm still bemused by his call in Auckland this year. Insane.
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@molloyjh said in Ireland II:
Ah now there are more level headed reactions in fairness:
http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-missed-chances-all-blacks-3092438-Nov2016/
http://www.the42.ie/ireland-all-blacks-aviva-match-report-2016-3090747-Nov2016/
I'd also point out that there cannot be any question that NZ have a discipline issue at the moment. 12-4 was the penalty count in Chicago. 14-4 in Dublin. 3 yellow cards across both Tests to 0. 2 citings to 0. And the citing commissioner apparently referred 12 incidents in the game on Saturday back to the teams. 11 of those to NZ. While I don't like the whinging and the moaning it's pretty clear there is a discipline issue there that can't be ignored.
The Test on the weekend was a one-sided joke from the refereeing. There should have been at least one yellow card for Ireland and Aaron Smith should never have been penalised. Ireland had carte blanche at the ruck and how you get a scrum for being the last man in defence knocking a pass down is beyond baffling.
@antipodean said in Ireland II:
@molloyjh said in Ireland II:
Ah now there are more level headed reactions in fairness:
http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-missed-chances-all-blacks-3092438-Nov2016/
http://www.the42.ie/ireland-all-blacks-aviva-match-report-2016-3090747-Nov2016/
I'd also point out that there cannot be any question that NZ have a discipline issue at the moment. 12-4 was the penalty count in Chicago. 14-4 in Dublin. 3 yellow cards across both Tests to 0. 2 citings to 0. And the citing commissioner apparently referred 12 incidents in the game on Saturday back to the teams. 11 of those to NZ. While I don't like the whinging and the moaning it's pretty clear there is a discipline issue there that can't be ignored.
The Test on the weekend was a one-sided joke from the refereeing.
There should have been at least one yellow card for Ireland and Aaron Smith should never have been penalised. Ireland had carte blanche at the ruck and how you get a scrum for being the last man in defence knocking a pass down is beyond baffling.Agreed. How the fuck were Ireland not playing against 8 men for the rest of the match....?
It's beyond incomprehensible comprehension.
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@antipodean said in Ireland II:
@molloyjh said in Ireland II:
Ah now there are more level headed reactions in fairness:
http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-missed-chances-all-blacks-3092438-Nov2016/
http://www.the42.ie/ireland-all-blacks-aviva-match-report-2016-3090747-Nov2016/
I'd also point out that there cannot be any question that NZ have a discipline issue at the moment. 12-4 was the penalty count in Chicago. 14-4 in Dublin. 3 yellow cards across both Tests to 0. 2 citings to 0. And the citing commissioner apparently referred 12 incidents in the game on Saturday back to the teams. 11 of those to NZ. While I don't like the whinging and the moaning it's pretty clear there is a discipline issue there that can't be ignored.
The Test on the weekend was a one-sided joke from the refereeing.
There should have been at least one yellow card for Ireland and Aaron Smith should never have been penalised. Ireland had carte blanche at the ruck and how you get a scrum for being the last man in defence knocking a pass down is beyond baffling.Agreed. How the fuck were Ireland not playing against 8 men for the rest of the match....?
It's beyond incomprehensible comprehension.
@Pot-Hale said in Ireland II:
@antipodean said in Ireland II:
@molloyjh said in Ireland II:
Ah now there are more level headed reactions in fairness:
http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-missed-chances-all-blacks-3092438-Nov2016/
http://www.the42.ie/ireland-all-blacks-aviva-match-report-2016-3090747-Nov2016/
I'd also point out that there cannot be any question that NZ have a discipline issue at the moment. 12-4 was the penalty count in Chicago. 14-4 in Dublin. 3 yellow cards across both Tests to 0. 2 citings to 0. And the citing commissioner apparently referred 12 incidents in the game on Saturday back to the teams. 11 of those to NZ. While I don't like the whinging and the moaning it's pretty clear there is a discipline issue there that can't be ignored.
The Test on the weekend was a one-sided joke from the refereeing.
There should have been at least one yellow card for Ireland and Aaron Smith should never have been penalised. Ireland had carte blanche at the ruck and how you get a scrum for being the last man in defence knocking a pass down is beyond baffling.Agreed. How the fuck were Ireland not playing against 8 men for the rest of the match....?
It's beyond incomprehensible comprehension.
You were your attack was so narrow...
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Thanks for posting that, those 2 lads were very classy. EOS hit the nail on the head when he said watch everything with the other jersey on. It applies as much to us as the Irish I suppose, but what tends to get my goat about the Irish whinging is the large dose of hypocrisy that goes with it. We saw this with the Barrett try where the commentators did not even hint at a Sexton high tackle - if Barrett does that to Sexton as he's about to score... Now we have had a couple of very reasonable Irish posters on here recently, so I don't want to tar all and sundry with the same brush, and EOS was certainly very objective there.
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@Crucial I thought that was one of the worst lack of gamesmanship I have seen in a long time, right as we were taking the conversion. Who the fuck does Best think he is? It's not cricket with a referral system. It was piss poor and another reason why I,'ll be supporting the convicts this weekend (which pains me no end)
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While our discipline has been a major talking point , Someone else posted this on facebook , thought it was interesting , So i cut and paste it for here , Penalties and yellow cards
Wales in Auckland: NZ 8 - Wales 7
Wales in Wellington: NZ 10 – Wales 6
Wales in Dunedin: NZ 10 – Wales 6 (Sam Cane yellow card)
Australia in Sydney: NZ 9 – Aussie 8 (Kieran Read yellow card)
Australia in Wellington: Aussie 15 – NZ 12
Argentina in Hamilton: Pumas 14 – NZ 9
South Africa in Christchurch: NZ 10 – Boks 8
Argentina in Buenos Aires: NZ 12 – Pumas 5 (Joe Moody, Liam Squire yellow cards)
South Africa in Durban: Boks 10 – NZ 8 (Codie Taylor yellow card)
Australia in Auckland: NZ 11 – Aussie 10
Ireland in Chicago: NZ 12 – Ireland 4 (Joe Moody yellow card)
Italy in Rome: NZ 5 – Italy 4
Ireland in Dublin: NZ 14 – Ireland 4 (Aaron Smith, Malakai Fekitoa yellow cards)
Overall Penalty Count: NZ 130 – Opposition 101
Yellow Cards: NZ 8 – Opposition 2 -
Something which isn't being taken into account and I'd say would have a heavy bearing on slanted stats - NZ play out the advantage a lot. And I mean a lot. Be it a penalty advantage in our half that turns into a breakaway into the oppo half, or just a penalty 5 out that more often than not gets turned into a try.
If NZ give away a penalty advantage, the opposition more often than not gets shutdown, so the penalty is awarded.
Edit: Actually, it'd be interesting to see how many of our tries this year were scored under penalty advantage.
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Something which isn't being taken into account and I'd say would have a heavy bearing on slanted stats - NZ play out the advantage a lot. And I mean a lot. Be it a penalty advantage in our half that turns into a breakaway into the oppo half, or just a penalty 5 out that more often than not gets turned into a try.
If NZ give away a penalty advantage, the opposition more often than not gets shutdown, so the penalty is awarded.
Edit: Actually, it'd be interesting to see how many of our tries this year were scored under penalty advantage.
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@Bones good point!
Although doesnt change the fact we are just thugs that play rugby!
@taniwharugby said in Ireland II:
@Bones good point!
Although doesnt change the fact we are just thugs that play rugby!
Not only that mate. Some of our players are fast. Reprehensible.
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While our discipline has been a major talking point , Someone else posted this on facebook , thought it was interesting , So i cut and paste it for here , Penalties and yellow cards
Wales in Auckland: NZ 8 - Wales 7
Wales in Wellington: NZ 10 – Wales 6
Wales in Dunedin: NZ 10 – Wales 6 (Sam Cane yellow card)
Australia in Sydney: NZ 9 – Aussie 8 (Kieran Read yellow card)
Australia in Wellington: Aussie 15 – NZ 12
Argentina in Hamilton: Pumas 14 – NZ 9
South Africa in Christchurch: NZ 10 – Boks 8
Argentina in Buenos Aires: NZ 12 – Pumas 5 (Joe Moody, Liam Squire yellow cards)
South Africa in Durban: Boks 10 – NZ 8 (Codie Taylor yellow card)
Australia in Auckland: NZ 11 – Aussie 10
Ireland in Chicago: NZ 12 – Ireland 4 (Joe Moody yellow card)
Italy in Rome: NZ 5 – Italy 4
Ireland in Dublin: NZ 14 – Ireland 4 (Aaron Smith, Malakai Fekitoa yellow cards)
Overall Penalty Count: NZ 130 – Opposition 101
Yellow Cards: NZ 8 – Opposition 2@kiwiinmelb said in Ireland II:
While our discipline has been a major talking point , Someone else posted this on facebook , thought it was interesting , So i cut and paste it for here , Penalties and yellow cards
Wales in Auckland: NZ 8 - Wales 7
Wales in Wellington: NZ 10 – Wales 6
Wales in Dunedin: NZ 10 – Wales 6 (Sam Cane yellow card)
Australia in Sydney: NZ 9 – Aussie 8 (Kieran Read yellow card)
Australia in Wellington: Aussie 15 – NZ 12
Argentina in Hamilton: Pumas 14 – NZ 9
South Africa in Christchurch: NZ 10 – Boks 8
Argentina in Buenos Aires: NZ 12 – Pumas 5 (Joe Moody, Liam Squire yellow cards)
South Africa in Durban: Boks 10 – NZ 8 (Codie Taylor yellow card)
Australia in Auckland: NZ 11 – Aussie 10
Ireland in Chicago: NZ 12 – Ireland 4 (Joe Moody yellow card)
Italy in Rome: NZ 5 – Italy 4
Ireland in Dublin: NZ 14 – Ireland 4 (Aaron Smith, Malakai Fekitoa yellow cards)
Overall Penalty Count: NZ 130 – Opposition 101
Yellow Cards: NZ 8 – Opposition 2Wonder which game Nigel Owens officiated??
Just saying
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@Kiwidom they call it icing the kicker in the NFL. Never seen a player do that before very disappointing from best.
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@mooshld Exactly. The decision had been made so he needed to just get on with it. Imagine if Read had of done that? We would be branded arrogant, bad sports and the crowd would have invaded the ground with lanterns and pitchforks...
@Kiwidom The thing that makes it worse is that he and his team clearly had no issue with it until they watched a replay. Umm how about not watching the replays and concentrate on how you are going to get over the try line.
If he had an issue immediately and raised it with the ref fine. But to let the crowd coerce you into asking the ref to check something is weak leadership.
