AB's 2016 in Review
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Areas of concern.
Propping depth and also finding ball running props. Rugby is moving towards props who can do their core roles of scrumaging, tackling as well as being effective ball carriers. Franks and Moody unfortunately don't fit this bill. Losing Faumaina is going to be a big loss as he's our only prop in the 23 that offers good go forward.
No 8 and No 6. Finding another world class No 8 and a world class No 6 has to be high on the priority list with Read being the only decent 8 that we have and Kaino operating on his last legs. We have plenty of blindsides around but none of them apart from perhaps Akira show signs of being near Kaino's quality. Perhaps given time, Squire could also be that man. For a country that has such a large PI and Maori population, I am surprised that we don't seem to be able to produce that massive ball carrying lossie in the mould of Billy Vunipola, Picamoles etc. The last real big guy that showed promise but never quite delivered was Lauaki.
I think we are doing ok in pretty much every other position so all in all, it's not such a bad situation to be in. Hopefully we get a great crop of u20s next year that can provide us with a few quality ABs going forward. This current AB team is built around the great u20s sides of 2009-2011 but the step down in quality over the last few years has been noticeable. These things tend to be cyclical however so I wouldn't be surprised if we get a gun team again in the next couple of years.
@akan004 I don't think there's much point looking for ball running props if that's not the game plan we are going with. Even with Faumuina on the field, he's not being used to carry a lot of ball anyway.
Right now they want props that are rock solid at set piece - scrums and lineout - can tackle and hit the line hard, ones that don't lose the ball in contact, and can make the short pass.
Our 4 front line props all do that stuff at a pretty high level.
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@akan004 I don't think there's much point looking for ball running props if that's not the game plan we are going with. Even with Faumuina on the field, he's not being used to carry a lot of ball anyway.
Right now they want props that are rock solid at set piece - scrums and lineout - can tackle and hit the line hard, ones that don't lose the ball in contact, and can make the short pass.
Our 4 front line props all do that stuff at a pretty high level.
@ACT-Crusader said in AB's 2016 in Review:
Our 4 front line props all do that stuff at a pretty high level.
One might say "at an AB level"
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Interesting for next year:
All Blacks coach Steve Hansen confirms pre-season 'well-being camp'
"We're going to have a camp in January, not so much a rugby camp but a strength and conditioning camp, a well-being camp - let's call it that - which will be great.@Stargazer said in AB's 2016 in Review:
Interesting for next year:
All Blacks coach Steve Hansen confirms pre-season 'well-being camp'
"We're going to have a camp in January, not so much a rugby camp but a strength and conditioning camp, a well-being camp - let's call it that - which will be great.Or outside code talk, the checking in on Savea to see how fat he's got, camp.
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He's still got a few work-ons at scrum time, but improved last year - hopefully he has a massive year for the Chiefs
@gt12 It will be interesting to see how Rennie uses his props. You would expect Laulala and Hames to be the starters, with Moil and Graham to provide impact off the bench. But knowing Rennie there will be rotation. Moli is a big unit but still a kid.
As to the ABs, I think it's been good to have these difficult NH tests before the Lions series. Hansen has acknowledged that they have learned some valuable lessons. One of those lessons is obviously the breakdown, where SH teams tend to reload and get to their feet quickly if they can't win a turnover whereas NH teams really attack the ruck with bodies/hands.
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In the U20s, we'll see Marino Mikaele-Tu'u for his second year. There's a lot to like about this lad; he's a very big, powerful 8. He only got a few games for the Magpies (because they wanted him to play with the U19s), but if he gets a full NPC season next year, we'll be able to see whether he's really as good as he showed during the JWC. Hope the Canes will pick him up next year.
Edit: added this photo to show he's big
@Stargazer said in AB's 2016 in Review:
In the U20s, we'll see Marino Mikaele-Tu'u for his second year. There's a lot to like about this lad; he's a very big, powerful 8. He only got a few games for the Magpies (because they wanted him to play with the U19s), but if he gets a full NPC season next year, we'll be able to see whether he's really as good as he showed during the JWC. Hope the Canes will pick him up next year.
Edit: added this photo to show he's big
It's the hair.
Show a photo next to Ardie standing on his head so we get a real gauge
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Thanks @Chris-B and @Stargazer i fogot Hames and Riccitelli
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@Stargazer said in AB's 2016 in Review:
In the U20s, we'll see Marino Mikaele-Tu'u for his second year. There's a lot to like about this lad; he's a very big, powerful 8. He only got a few games for the Magpies (because they wanted him to play with the U19s), but if he gets a full NPC season next year, we'll be able to see whether he's really as good as he showed during the JWC. Hope the Canes will pick him up next year.
Edit: added this photo to show he's big
It's the hair.
Show a photo next to Ardie standing on his head so we get a real gauge
@booboo said in AB's 2016 in Review:
@Stargazer said in AB's 2016 in Review:
In the U20s, we'll see Marino Mikaele-Tu'u for his second year. There's a lot to like about this lad; he's a very big, powerful 8. He only got a few games for the Magpies (because they wanted him to play with the U19s), but if he gets a full NPC season next year, we'll be able to see whether he's really as good as he showed during the JWC. Hope the Canes will pick him up next year.
Edit: added this photo to show he's big
It's the hair.
Show a photo next to Ardie standing on his head so we get a real gauge
LOL, he is 1.92m according to his Magpies profile. That's only 1cm smaller than Kieran Read (All Blacks & Crusaders profile). Ardie is 1.90m according to his All Blacks profile or 1.88m according to his Hurricanes profile (does the hair explain the difference?). So Mikaele-Tu'u is definitely taller than Savea, regardless of the hair. Once that photo exists, I'll post it ...
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@Stargazer said in AB's 2016 in Review:
Interesting for next year:
All Blacks coach Steve Hansen confirms pre-season 'well-being camp'
"We're going to have a camp in January, not so much a rugby camp but a strength and conditioning camp, a well-being camp - let's call it that - which will be great.Or outside code talk, the checking in on Savea to see how fat he's got, camp.
@MajorRage said in AB's 2016 in Review:
@Stargazer said in AB's 2016 in Review:
Interesting for next year:
All Blacks coach Steve Hansen confirms pre-season 'well-being camp'
"We're going to have a camp in January, not so much a rugby camp but a strength and conditioning camp, a well-being camp - let's call it that - which will be great.Or outside code talk, the checking in on Savea to see how fat he's got, camp.
Trouble is he was skinny during the EYOT, but still shit
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@Chris-B. said in AB's 2016 in Review:
I think propping depth is only a concern on the tighthead side - and I think it's our biggest concern - though Ofa seems to be making progress and Laulala will hopefully return and improve.
Loosehead we've got Moody, Crockett, Hames, Paulasi Manu and quite a few others who look quite promising.
I really like Hames - he really tries to dominate his opponent, where Crockett and Moody to an extent seem more happy just with parity. Won't surprise me to see Hames or Manu go past both in the next 12 months.
I assume they'll be looking at Reggie Goodes as well.
@Stargazer said in AB's 2016 in Review:
@Chris-B. said in AB's 2016 in Review:
I think propping depth is only a concern on the tighthead side - and I think it's our biggest concern - though Ofa seems to be making progress and Laulala will hopefully return and improve.
Loosehead we've got Moody, Crockett, Hames, Paulasi Manu and quite a few others who look quite promising.
I really like Hames - he really tries to dominate his opponent, where Crockett and Moody to an extent seem more happy just with parity. Won't surprise me to see Hames or Manu go past both in the next 12 months.
I assume they'll be looking at Reggie Goodes as well.
Hummm, Goodes did not look like a potential AB on the BaaBaas tour. He is a good SR player but his size is a major weakness at the international level. I can't see him compete against big men like Furlong and Atonio.
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@Chris-B. Laulala seemed to go alright before being injured. (I think he's tighthead)
If he comes back as strong and dominate then I think our propping concerns are eliminated
@Hooroo said in AB's 2016 in Review:
@Chris-B. Laulala seemed to go alright before being injured. (I think he's tighthead)
If he comes back as strong and dominate then I think our propping concerns are eliminated
Laulala is definitely a TH prop, and IMO is the 2nd best in NZ after Franks. It's a shame he was injured for this season because I think he would have provided great coverage for Owen. It's amazing to think that if he'd stayed in CHCH this year they'd have had 4 x props, 3 x locks and a hooker in the ABs tight five on the EOYT.
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@MajorRage said in AB's 2016 in Review:
@Stargazer said in AB's 2016 in Review:
Interesting for next year:
All Blacks coach Steve Hansen confirms pre-season 'well-being camp'
"We're going to have a camp in January, not so much a rugby camp but a strength and conditioning camp, a well-being camp - let's call it that - which will be great.Or outside code talk, the checking in on Savea to see how fat he's got, camp.
Trouble is he was skinny during the EYOT, but still shit
@TeWaio said in AB's 2016 in Review:
@MajorRage said in AB's 2016 in Review:
@Stargazer said in AB's 2016 in Review:
Interesting for next year:
All Blacks coach Steve Hansen confirms pre-season 'well-being camp'
"We're going to have a camp in January, not so much a rugby camp but a strength and conditioning camp, a well-being camp - let's call it that - which will be great.Or outside code talk, the checking in on Savea to see how fat he's got, camp.
Trouble is he was skinny during the EYOT, but still shit
Nah.
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This post is deleted!
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NIgel Yealdens AB awards for 2016
http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/photos/sport/nigel-yaldens-2016-all-blacks-awards/
Forward of the Year: Dane Coles. The maturity with which he led the Hurricanes to their first Super Rugby title flowed into a more senior role with the All Blacks. While we will remember fondly some of the moments of skill and the 77 minutes off the bench he was never meant to be part of in Sydney, it’s his world class ability in a hooker's core role that shouldn't be ignored. The best in the world in his position.
Runners Up: Sam Whitelock & Brodie Retallick. Just prior to the Chicago test, Sky Sport commentary legend Grant Nisbett told me that today we would see just how important Whitelock and Retallick are to the All Blacks. Nisbo was on point as always, much in the same way this duo are whenever they take to the field.
Role Player of the Year - Forwards: Owen Franks. Week in, week out, this bloke does the business without fuss or fanfare. Franks is rarely bettered at scrum time, superb at the oft-overlooked skill of lineout lifting, shifts carcasses at the breakdown, defends strongly in tough ball running channels around rucks, carries strongly himself and has the most underappreciated set of hands of all the tight forwards.
Back of the Year: Beauden Barrett. Think back to where he was at the start of the year, then fast forward to the finish. You realise his growth and maturity has been as rapid as the man himself on a chip’n’chase. Super Rugby form led to the Rugby Championship, he earned the starting first five spot on performance and then just cut capers. Not perfect by any means, but his defensive and offensive efforts in Dublin and Paris reaffirmed the growth of Barrett in 2016.
Runners Up: Israel Dagg & Ben Smith. You couldn’t have one without the other as both benefited from the change made for the second Bledisloe Cup test. Dagg has revived his international career on the right wing while Smith has been his typically rock solid self in everything he does in his best position.
Role Player of the Year: Ryan Crotty is as reliable a player as there is in the All Blacks. He reads defenses well and is an accurate tackler. On offense he runs great lines, is more than willing to straighten up the attack and is sneaky quick. As he has done all through his All Black career, just went out and did his job with those around him benefiting.
Rookie of the Year: Anton Lienert-Brown. A 21 year old with the rugby sense of the 12 year test veteran, this young man is as good, if not better than when Wayne Smith gave me his take on how talented Lienert-Brown was as an 18 year old. It didn’t matter whether he was at second five or centre, he made great decisions with or without the ball and defensively rarely missed his target.
Rookie Runners Up: Liam Squire & Scott Barrett. Two big young men with massive motors and an unrelenting willingness to throw themselves at the opposition from first whistle to last; ready-made test match rugby players.
Individual Performance of the Year: Dane Coles vs South Africa in Christchurch. 7 days after playing his “worst game in the jersey”, Coles produced his best. Lineout throwing - his undoing the week prior - was pinpoint; he scrummed well but around the field he was quite superb. Whilst he did work in and around the ruck, it was out wide where he was of most influence, highlighted by a trio of final passes on tries that were simply sublime. -
Not a bad summary and hard to argue with any of those selections.
Preseason I don't think anyone was really thinking ALB, S. Barrett and Squire would even make the ABs.
There were some that mentioned S. Barrett last year as an outside chance, but that was more pie in the sky then anything else.
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Not a bad summary and hard to argue with any of those selections.
Preseason I don't think anyone was really thinking ALB, S. Barrett and Squire would even make the ABs.
There were some that mentioned S. Barrett last year as an outside chance, but that was more pie in the sky then anything else.
@ACT-Crusader said in AB's 2016 in Review:
Not a bad summary and hard to argue with any of those selections.
Preseason I don't think anyone was really thinking ALB, S. Barrett and Squire would even make the ABs.
There were some that mentioned S. Barrett last year as an outside chance, but that was more pie in the sky then anything else.
Even three quarters of the way through Super Rugby only a handful of us were noticing ALB but even then its was just to say he looked like a good level headed player that could one day possibly press for higher honours. Talk about right place/right time. He used the confidence gained through regular play for the Chiefs after Ngatai was injured to grab his unexpected AB chance with both hands. The fact that he did it all without being overly spectacular points to him being a long term keeper.
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@Stargazer that would be wonderful.
@nostrildamus Yeah, I really hope he stays on after next year.
Interesting interview; reflecting on the 2016 season, the NZ "production line" & players being lured overseas or into NRL straight out of school, the NH-SH gap, the loss of coaches to the North, the "fatigue/travel factor", Eddie Jones, staying or not after the Lions tour (he doesn't answer the question).
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NIgel Yealdens AB awards for 2016
http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/photos/sport/nigel-yaldens-2016-all-blacks-awards/
Forward of the Year: Dane Coles. The maturity with which he led the Hurricanes to their first Super Rugby title flowed into a more senior role with the All Blacks. While we will remember fondly some of the moments of skill and the 77 minutes off the bench he was never meant to be part of in Sydney, it’s his world class ability in a hooker's core role that shouldn't be ignored. The best in the world in his position.
Runners Up: Sam Whitelock & Brodie Retallick. Just prior to the Chicago test, Sky Sport commentary legend Grant Nisbett told me that today we would see just how important Whitelock and Retallick are to the All Blacks. Nisbo was on point as always, much in the same way this duo are whenever they take to the field.
Role Player of the Year - Forwards: Owen Franks. Week in, week out, this bloke does the business without fuss or fanfare. Franks is rarely bettered at scrum time, superb at the oft-overlooked skill of lineout lifting, shifts carcasses at the breakdown, defends strongly in tough ball running channels around rucks, carries strongly himself and has the most underappreciated set of hands of all the tight forwards.
Back of the Year: Beauden Barrett. Think back to where he was at the start of the year, then fast forward to the finish. You realise his growth and maturity has been as rapid as the man himself on a chip’n’chase. Super Rugby form led to the Rugby Championship, he earned the starting first five spot on performance and then just cut capers. Not perfect by any means, but his defensive and offensive efforts in Dublin and Paris reaffirmed the growth of Barrett in 2016.
Runners Up: Israel Dagg & Ben Smith. You couldn’t have one without the other as both benefited from the change made for the second Bledisloe Cup test. Dagg has revived his international career on the right wing while Smith has been his typically rock solid self in everything he does in his best position.
Role Player of the Year: Ryan Crotty is as reliable a player as there is in the All Blacks. He reads defenses well and is an accurate tackler. On offense he runs great lines, is more than willing to straighten up the attack and is sneaky quick. As he has done all through his All Black career, just went out and did his job with those around him benefiting.
Rookie of the Year: Anton Lienert-Brown. A 21 year old with the rugby sense of the 12 year test veteran, this young man is as good, if not better than when Wayne Smith gave me his take on how talented Lienert-Brown was as an 18 year old. It didn’t matter whether he was at second five or centre, he made great decisions with or without the ball and defensively rarely missed his target.
Rookie Runners Up: Liam Squire & Scott Barrett. Two big young men with massive motors and an unrelenting willingness to throw themselves at the opposition from first whistle to last; ready-made test match rugby players.
Individual Performance of the Year: Dane Coles vs South Africa in Christchurch. 7 days after playing his “worst game in the jersey”, Coles produced his best. Lineout throwing - his undoing the week prior - was pinpoint; he scrummed well but around the field he was quite superb. Whilst he did work in and around the ruck, it was out wide where he was of most influence, highlighted by a trio of final passes on tries that were simply sublime.@taniwharugby said in AB's 2016 in Review:
Rookie of the Year: Anton Lienert-Brown. A 21 year old with the rugby sense of the 12 year test veteran, this young man is as good, if not better than when Wayne Smith gave me his take on how talented Lienert-Brown was as an 18 year old
Why am I not surprised?
Interesting infographic on allblack.com
