Uber v Taxis
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Wouldn't be too worried about the car "sacrificing its passengers" if they're built to the same specs as a Tesla:
Tesla Model S driver walks away from crash with a truck at 'tremendous speed'
Earlier this week, the fact that the Tesla Model S broke the machine used to test the roof structure of...
Earlier this week, the fact that the Tesla Model S broke the machine used to test the roof structure of cars during a round of tests by US regulators came up again on social media despite having happened over 3 years ago. Coincidentally, a Model S owner put the roof to the test today in an unfortunate real world scenario when he crashed into a truck on the Autobahn in Germany.
The Model S lodged itself under the truck and despite the severity of the impact, the driver reportedly was able to get himself out of the car and walk to safety – though his injuries were described as “serious,” but not critical.
The vehicle crashed into a truck used to shield a construction site that a company was about to set up. The speed of the Tesla at the time of the impact was described as “tremendous” by a local news report, which is not uncommon on the German Autobahn where speed is mostly unrestricted.
The details of the circumstances of the crash are scarce based on the current reports, but the main theory is that the driver was unable to merge into the right lane soon enough to avoid the truck.
The Bruchsal fire brigade arrived and secured the scene quickly. They reached out to Tesla’s technical support to make sure to deal with the electric vehicle properly, but the battery pack appeared to be mostly intact and didn’t catch on fire, so they simply dug the car out from under the truck in order to tow it.
It resulted in some spectacular pictures of parts of the truck sitting on top of the Model S (pictures by EM via Badische Zeitung):
After the release of the Model S’ crash test results in 2013, Tesla announced that the vehicle broke the testing machine:
“Of note, during validation of Model S roof crush protection at an independent commercial facility, the testing machine failed at just above 4 g’s. While the exact number is uncertain due to Model S breaking the testing machine, what this means is that at least four additional fully loaded Model S vehicles could be placed on top of an owner’s car without the roof caving in. This is achieved primarily through a center (B) pillar reinforcement attached via aerospace grade bolts.”
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) gave the Tesla Model S a 5-star safety rating in each category.
While most of the news reports about Tesla crashes have revolved around the Autopilot, they are rarely about the cars’ passive safety features, which have been credited by owners involved in spectacular accidents for saving their lives.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Uber v Taxis:
Moral Dilemma of Self-Driving Cars: Which Lives to Save in a Crash
Would you ride in a self-driving car that has been programmed to sacrifice its passengers to save the lives of others, in the event of a serious accident?
Never bought into that line of thought. Nobody's going to program in software that counts passengers and makes a decision based on the number of casualties, they will just build code that will stop and evade as best as possible when confused. Exactly how it is now with human drivers.
And Hooroo, once the computers are driving the most dangerous drivers will be humans, and the computers will be the best at avoiding them too.
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@Kirwan said in Uber v Taxis:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Uber v Taxis:
Moral Dilemma of Self-Driving Cars: Which Lives to Save in a Crash
Would you ride in a self-driving car that has been programmed to sacrifice its passengers to save the lives of others, in the event of a serious accident?
And Hooroo, once the computers are driving the most dangerous drivers will be humans, and the computers will be the best at avoiding them too.
I completely agree that humans will be the most dangerous just as they are now. My concern would be in not having control in a situation where a dangerous human was driving towards me and I had no control on the outcome (Which I am assuming through probablilty that the auto driver would make a better decision)
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@Hooroo said in Uber v Taxis:
I completely agree that humans will be the most dangerous just as they are now. My concern would be in not having control in a situation where a dangerous human was driving towards me and I had no control on the outcome (Which I am assuming through probablilty that the auto driver would make a better decision)
Its a valid concern, too. Thing is, the computer is going to react faster than you and take the most probable safe outcome
I watched that video Tesla released of the full autonomous mode and I realised how nervous I was. This was out on suburban/rural roads, and there were people and other vehicles everywhere. Fucking hell I don't know if I could do that
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While the computer can predict the best outcome for you, it is basing on the other person being a rational person making an error.
What if the other person is doing something deliberately or just really dangerous, will it have the intuition to realize something isn't quite right...granted these will be a small number and a driver driving a car in similar scenario will likely be equally as buggared.
I am often driving between Whangarei and Auckland and thinking man I'd love to not be driving...but then some complete idiots coming the opposite direction or passing me in mental places and I think (in my mind) I feel better knowing I am in 'control'
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@Hooroo said in Uber v Taxis:
@Kirwan said in Uber v Taxis:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Uber v Taxis:
Moral Dilemma of Self-Driving Cars: Which Lives to Save in a Crash
Would you ride in a self-driving car that has been programmed to sacrifice its passengers to save the lives of others, in the event of a serious accident?
And Hooroo, once the computers are driving the most dangerous drivers will be humans, and the computers will be the best at avoiding them too.
I completely agree that humans will be the most dangerous just as they are now. My concern would be in not having control in a situation where a dangerous human was driving towards me and I had no control on the outcome (Which I am assuming through probablilty that the auto driver would make a better decision)
You'll have the ability to take over, I doubt they will be allowed on the roads for many years without a steering wheel or a driver ready to take over in the front.
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Not necessarily - the software won't care about the motivations or state of mind of the other party. It will look at the surrounds, determine the best probable outcome, and then take action.
And at some point in its evolution, it will take that action before a human driver is even aware something is wrong.
The strength of the software will be based on a constant feed of road conditions, probable outcomes in a given situation, ability to recognise new actions of human drivers and put that into the programming, etc.
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@taniwharugby said in Uber v Taxis:
While the computer can predict the best outcome for you, it is basing on the other person being a rational person making an error.
What if the other person is doing something deliberately or just really dangerous, will it have the intuition to realize something isn't quite right...granted these will be a small number and a driver driving a car in similar scenario will likely be equally as buggared.
I am often driving between Whangarei and Auckland and thinking man I'd love to not be driving...but then some complete idiots coming the opposite direction or passing me in mental places and I think (in my mind) I feel better knowing I am in 'control'
It won't care about rational, it will predict an outcome and try to avoid a crash. Like NTA says, it's will be aware of an issue well before you will.
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@Kirwan said in Uber v Taxis:
@taniwharugby said in Uber v Taxis:
While the computer can predict the best outcome for you, it is basing on the other person being a rational person making an error.
What if the other person is doing something deliberately or just really dangerous, will it have the intuition to realize something isn't quite right...granted these will be a small number and a driver driving a car in similar scenario will likely be equally as buggared.
I am often driving between Whangarei and Auckland and thinking man I'd love to not be driving...but then some complete idiots coming the opposite direction or passing me in mental places and I think (in my mind) I feel better knowing I am in 'control'
It won't care about rational, it will predict an outcome and try to avoid a crash. Like NTA says, it's will be aware of an issue well before you will.
Fully agreed, especially if all vehicles are on GPS as well.
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@Godder that's the point, they wont all be initially, so it will be working at a slight disadvantage in that the car being driven by a human, will still have the human error element.
How does it differentiate a car in the opposite side of the road as one that is in a dangerous passing move as opposed to one on the wrong side cos the driver is asleep or driving into oncoming traffic deliberately? (ie I can see if they are passing dangerously, and in most cases will be able to differentiate)
I'm all for it, but will be a boots and all, otherwise you still have the worst part of the equation involved - us.
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@taniwharugby said in Uber v Taxis:
@Godder that's the point, they wont all be initially, so it will be working at a slight disadvantage in that the car being driven by a human, will still have the human error element.
How does it differentiate a car in the opposite side of the road as one that is in a dangerous passing move as opposed to one on the wrong side cos the driver is asleep or driving into oncoming traffic deliberately? (ie I can see if they are passing dangerously, and in most cases will be able to differentiate)
I'm all for it, but will be a boots and all, otherwise you still have the worst part of the equation involved - us.
They also have to predict where cyclists are going to go, animals crossing the road, pedestrians, as well as the traffic and the path, etc. When you see how they visualise the data and predict what other elements are going to do, it's pretty amazing
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@NTA said in Uber v Taxis:
There was another one where they had three of the cameras in acquisition mode - boxing all the solid and moving objects in different colours.
You see the one with bikes coming from both directions and almost having a crash, the car goes "dunno what they are trying to do" and slows to a stop, until they move past. Was funny.
Love how the car goes off to park itself.
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Yeah there was one point where it stopped for some joggers, but that was part of the caution of the vehicle.
Some seriously complex shit going on there, particularly the multi-camera multi-acquisition. Its up there with the military stuff according to a mate of mine who occasionally goes off to central Australian rocket ranges to work with extremely clean-cut American gentlemen to work on software that he can't tell me a thing about
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There is a slower version of this here:
Tesla's Latest Autopilot Demo Shows Us What A Model S 'Sees' In Real Time - BGR
Tesla over the weekend released a pair of videos which demonstrate, in real time, what the company's Autopilot software 'sees' when it's driving without any…
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@Kirwan I guess being a non-nerd, unlike some on here, it is hard to really understand how adaptive the tech is and will be.
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@taniwharugby don't worry, I'm sure the first time I step into an AV I'll be shitting myself
But I trust the guys writing the software are at least 1 million times better than me at this, so it should be sweet.Contrast this to my wife, who won't even use cruise control....
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@taniwharugby said in Uber v Taxis:
@Kirwan I guess being a non-nerd, unlike some on here, it is hard to really understand how adaptive the tech is and will be.
It's pretty amazing what they have achieved so far. I'll be nervous as hell driving in one of these, still though.
Another good video is the blind guy being taken through drive through. Think of the applications for the elderly and disabled alone. Going to be life changing.
Might even get rid of car parks, or car ownership for a large portion of society. Just get your app and say you need a car for x number of people at a location and time, and it turns up.
Autopilot Full Self-Driving Hardware (Neighborhood Long)
