B&I Lions 2017
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@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
There were also some pundit selections in the Sunday Times (firewalled I think) which included one from Stephen Jones who demonstrated his complete lack of selection ability having players out of position and a large contingent of Welsh.
Edit: found a post on another website with a photo of the selections
There's some odd selections in amongst all that. Sort of "I like this bloke and he has to be in the team but there's someone else I can't leave out, so I'll put him in somewhere". How many are picking Itoje as a 6 based primarily on his zero appearances there at international level and few at club level? It's not as if we don't have some bloody good 6s as it is.
@Catogrande said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
There were also some pundit selections in the Sunday Times (firewalled I think) which included one from Stephen Jones who demonstrated his complete lack of selection ability having players out of position and a large contingent of Welsh.
Edit: found a post on another website with a photo of the selections
There's some odd selections in amongst all that. Sort of "I like this bloke and he has to be in the team but there's someone else I can't leave out, so I'll put him in somewhere". How many are picking Itoje as a 6 based primarily on his zero appearances there at international level and few at club level? It's not as if we don't have some bloody good 6s as it is.
Is that the same Luke Charteris who couldn't make the Welsh starring line up that lost 3-0 to NZ this year?
Maybe he was playing within himself to give AB fans a false sense of superiority.
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@infidel I think super rugby will have them well and truly warmed up,but on saying that,if you think back to their first test against Wales this yea,they were very rusty for 65 minutes..!
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It's not an issue of the players being rusty, it is usually that the coaches have changed the playbooks and tweaked the structures so the players have a lot to absorb and get used to in a short period of time.
Shag & Co are well aware of this and it is probably one of the reasons behind the camp earlier in the year. Get some homework in place as much as possible then try and make it gel in the time they have pre-game.
From the schedule it looks like the ABs will have a 2 week camp pre the first test.
Another note of interest is the MAB game in the middle of this. With ABs & MABs taken out of circulation the Chiefs and Highlanders could be well weakened.
Chiefs could be without DMac, Cruden, Hames, Lowe, Weber, BBBR, Cane, ALB, Laulala, TKB, Ngatai, Messam, Harris, Elliot -
Tew confirmed some details yesterday:
- There will be no warm-up test for the ABs prior to the 1st test vs Lions (no time in Super rugby schedule)
- The Blues and Crusaders will have their ABs available.
- Highlanders, Chiefs and Hurricanes will be AB-free unless players are released for game-time.
Also, a fourth match will be added to the 2017 EOYT but it won't be England - it could even be a game against a club side.
@Bovidae said in B&I Lions 2017:
Also, a fourth match will be added to the 2017 EOYT but it won't be England - it could even be a game against a club side.
I know Racing tried to get the ABs to play a club game to open their new stadium & were told "yup, no worries, that'll be €2m"
And that was the end of the discussion.
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@Bovidae said in B&I Lions 2017:
Also, a fourth match will be added to the 2017 EOYT but it won't be England - it could even be a game against a club side.
I know Racing tried to get the ABs to play a club game to open their new stadium & were told "yup, no worries, that'll be €2m"
And that was the end of the discussion.
@gollum I don't see the issue...you want the best, you pay for it. Shit ain't free and the added cost and risk of injury.
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Knew that Neil Francis would be the pundit in question before opening it. Luckily his team is more even handed..
The former Ireland forward also picked his test team to face the All Blacks, which featured nine Irishmen: 15 Rob Kearney, 14 George North, 13 Jonathan Joseph, 12 Robbie Henshaw, 11 Stuart Hogg, 10 Johnny Sexton, 9 Conor Murray; 8 Billy Vunipola, 7 Sam Warburton, 6 Sean O'Brien, 5 Iain Henderson, 4 Maro Itoje, 3 Tadhg Furling, 2 Rory Best, 1 Jack McGrath.
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It's not an issue of the players being rusty, it is usually that the coaches have changed the playbooks and tweaked the structures so the players have a lot to absorb and get used to in a short period of time.
Shag & Co are well aware of this and it is probably one of the reasons behind the camp earlier in the year. Get some homework in place as much as possible then try and make it gel in the time they have pre-game.
From the schedule it looks like the ABs will have a 2 week camp pre the first test.
Another note of interest is the MAB game in the middle of this. With ABs & MABs taken out of circulation the Chiefs and Highlanders could be well weakened.
Chiefs could be without DMac, Cruden, Hames, Lowe, Weber, BBBR, Cane, ALB, Laulala, TKB, Ngatai, Messam, Harris, Elliot@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
Another note of interest is the MAB game in the middle of this. With ABs & MABs taken out of circulation the Chiefs and Highlanders could be well weakened.
Chiefs could be without DMac, Cruden, Hames, Lowe, Weber, BBBR, Cane, ALB, Laulala, TKB, Ngatai, Messam, Harris, ElliotA point I mentioned previously. I think more thought could have gone into the schedule so that the Chiefs and Maori didn't play so close together as a lot of players could be involved with both teams. Swapping the Blues and Chiefs game would have made sense to me.
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Tew confirmed some details yesterday:
- There will be no warm-up test for the ABs prior to the 1st test vs Lions (no time in Super rugby schedule)
- The Blues and Crusaders will have their ABs available.
- Highlanders, Chiefs and Hurricanes will be AB-free unless players are released for game-time.
Also, a fourth match will be added to the 2017 EOYT but it won't be England - it could even be a game against a club side.
@Bovidae said in B&I Lions 2017:
Tew confirmed some details yesterday:
- There will be no warm-up test for the ABs prior to the 1st test vs Lions (no time in Super rugby schedule)
No time?
The Blues have 22 days between their last Super Rugby game and the 1st test. 14 days between the Lions fixture and the 1st test.The Crusaders have 21 days between their last Super Rugby game and the 1st test. 11 days between the Lions fixture and the 1st test.
The Hurricanes have 21 days between their last Super Rugby game and the 1st test. Their Lions fixture is after the 1st test.
How is there not enough time to put together a squad/test with those three sides forming a majority of the squad? They should be playing a test on the weekend of the 17th while the Maori are playing the Lions.
Playing a test there makes infinitely more sense than the inconvenient Samoa test during a RWC year.
@Bovidae said in B&I Lions 2017:
Swapping the Blues and Chiefs game would have made sense to me.The would have required the Chiefs to play 3 games in 6 days.
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@Bovidae said in B&I Lions 2017:
Tew confirmed some details yesterday:
- There will be no warm-up test for the ABs prior to the 1st test vs Lions (no time in Super rugby schedule)
No time?
The Blues have 22 days between their last Super Rugby game and the 1st test. 14 days between the Lions fixture and the 1st test.The Crusaders have 21 days between their last Super Rugby game and the 1st test. 11 days between the Lions fixture and the 1st test.
The Hurricanes have 21 days between their last Super Rugby game and the 1st test. Their Lions fixture is after the 1st test.
How is there not enough time to put together a squad/test with those three sides forming a majority of the squad? They should be playing a test on the weekend of the 17th while the Maori are playing the Lions.
Playing a test there makes infinitely more sense than the inconvenient Samoa test during a RWC year.
@Bovidae said in B&I Lions 2017:
Swapping the Blues and Chiefs game would have made sense to me.The would have required the Chiefs to play 3 games in 6 days.
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Knew that Neil Francis would be the pundit in question before opening it. Luckily his team is more even handed..
The former Ireland forward also picked his test team to face the All Blacks, which featured nine Irishmen: 15 Rob Kearney, 14 George North, 13 Jonathan Joseph, 12 Robbie Henshaw, 11 Stuart Hogg, 10 Johnny Sexton, 9 Conor Murray; 8 Billy Vunipola, 7 Sam Warburton, 6 Sean O'Brien, 5 Iain Henderson, 4 Maro Itoje, 3 Tadhg Furling, 2 Rory Best, 1 Jack McGrath.
@Margin_Walker said in B&I Lions 2017:
Knew that Neil Francis would be the pundit in question before opening it. Luckily his team is more even handed..
The former Ireland forward also picked his test team to face the All Blacks, which featured nine Irishmen: 15 Rob Kearney,Hahaha fuck me. I stopped reading there.
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@infidel said in B&I Lions 2017:
Any AB fans a little nervous about no warm up test? I am
Not really. I'd be more concerned about lack of preparation time.
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I think we are a strong chance to get stuffed game one when we are always shit.
Then by game 2 we will be up to speed & half the Lions will have gone home injured, Sexton will be sitting in the stands with an ice pack on his shoulder, North will not know what his own name is having played concussed & it'll be 25 point margins to us from there on
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That scenario massively over rates the ability of the Lions to come together. Pulling all those systems, egos, and rivalries together while trying to appease a rabid supporter base is a massive task. We're knocking the rust off, they're creating a new team.
And their coach's rugby is turgid shit.
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That scenario massively over rates the ability of the Lions to come together. Pulling all those systems, egos, and rivalries together while trying to appease a rabid supporter base is a massive task. We're knocking the rust off, they're creating a new team.
And their coach's rugby is turgid shit.
@mariner4life said in B&I Lions 2017:
That scenario massively over rates the ability of the Lions to come together. Pulling all those systems, egos, and rivalries together while trying to appease a rabid supporter base is a massive task. We're knocking the rust off, they're creating a new team.
I think they'll be OK game 1 as they will be able to play some good country combos - eg the Irish at 9 & 10, and Gatland will have decided his starting 15 before getting on the plane, so they'll have trained as a unit pre the first test.
Its when the injuries kick in & they have no country combos available & guys who were not even training with the first team step up - so have no on tour combo either, that the wheels fall off.
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Just to prove there are a couple of journalists worth their salt up here, this was a well written piece in the Guardian today. Murray comes across well and touches on Foley, the two games against NZ and the Lions tour this summer.
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Knew that Neil Francis would be the pundit in question before opening it. Luckily his team is more even handed..
The former Ireland forward also picked his test team to face the All Blacks, which featured nine Irishmen: 15 Rob Kearney, 14 George North, 13 Jonathan Joseph, 12 Robbie Henshaw, 11 Stuart Hogg, 10 Johnny Sexton, 9 Conor Murray; 8 Billy Vunipola, 7 Sam Warburton, 6 Sean O'Brien, 5 Iain Henderson, 4 Maro Itoje, 3 Tadhg Furling, 2 Rory Best, 1 Jack McGrath.
@Margin_Walker said in B&I Lions 2017:
Knew that Neil Francis would be the pundit in question before opening it. Luckily his team is more even handed..
The former Ireland forward also picked his test team to face the All Blacks, which featured nine Irishmen: 15 Rob Kearney, 14 George North, 13 Jonathan Joseph, 12 Robbie Henshaw, 11 Stuart Hogg, 10 Johnny Sexton, 9 Conor Murray; 8 Billy Vunipola, 7 Sam Warburton, 6 Sean O'Brien, 5 Iain Henderson, 4 Maro Itoje, 3 Tadhg Furling, 2 Rory Best, 1 Jack McGrath.The problem for the Lions is that, apart from Kearney, it's hardly a controversial selection that Francis has picked there. All of those Irish players have genuine claims. So it is meritorious, but it's core still got comfortably beat by the All Blacks when they decided to turn up in Dublin.
The Lions will have to be better than Ireland. Forget about Chicago. It will come down to how good England really are. They need to pound their 6N opponents and then go on to form the heart of the Lions. If not it will be 3 zip again.
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@Margin_Walker said in B&I Lions 2017:
Knew that Neil Francis would be the pundit in question before opening it. Luckily his team is more even handed..
The former Ireland forward also picked his test team to face the All Blacks, which featured nine Irishmen: 15 Rob Kearney, 14 George North, 13 Jonathan Joseph, 12 Robbie Henshaw, 11 Stuart Hogg, 10 Johnny Sexton, 9 Conor Murray; 8 Billy Vunipola, 7 Sam Warburton, 6 Sean O'Brien, 5 Iain Henderson, 4 Maro Itoje, 3 Tadhg Furling, 2 Rory Best, 1 Jack McGrath.The problem for the Lions is that, apart from Kearney, it's hardly a controversial selection that Francis has picked there. All of those Irish players have genuine claims. So it is meritorious, but it's core still got comfortably beat by the All Blacks when they decided to turn up in Dublin.
The Lions will have to be better than Ireland. Forget about Chicago. It will come down to how good England really are. They need to pound their 6N opponents and then go on to form the heart of the Lions. If not it will be 3 zip again.
For sure, but then we know from the start that the ABs are rightly big favourites, especially over three games. As you say the 6N will have a huge impact on selection. For what it's worth, I like Henderson, but I think he needs a good 6N to get on the plane, let alone the 15 for the first test. Lock is probably where the Lions are strongest, with hooker probably the weakest imo.
I also see Sexton struggling to make it, as he seems to be made of glass these days. The tour will very heavy attrition wise before we even get to the first test and he's certainly not the most durable player likely to be heading down there.
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For sure, but then we know from the start that the ABs are rightly big favourites, especially over three games. As you say the 6N will have a huge impact on selection. For what it's worth, I like Henderson, but I think he needs a good 6N to get on the plane, let alone the 15 for the first test. Lock is probably where the Lions are strongest, with hooker probably the weakest imo.
I also see Sexton struggling to make it, as he seems to be made of glass these days. The tour will very heavy attrition wise before we even get to the first test and he's certainly not the most durable player likely to be heading down there.
@Margin_Walker BILs wise, sexton is our stand out 10. He's been there, done that and has the pedigree. If fit he will be the starting 10 bar some serious up-kick from elsewhere. Yeah, he's injury prone but let's see how this in=s managed over the next few months.
Hooker we have some good options, though none in the same mould as Coles, bu we will be competitive and have depth. This is not a worry for me. The back row is an area that while we have individuals, I'm not sure we yet have a balance to compete. However the biggest problem I feel is that we are likely to be out-coached.
