B&I Lions 2017
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Just to prove there are a couple of journalists worth their salt up here, this was a well written piece in the Guardian today. Murray comes across well and touches on Foley, the two games against NZ and the Lions tour this summer.
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Knew that Neil Francis would be the pundit in question before opening it. Luckily his team is more even handed..
The former Ireland forward also picked his test team to face the All Blacks, which featured nine Irishmen: 15 Rob Kearney, 14 George North, 13 Jonathan Joseph, 12 Robbie Henshaw, 11 Stuart Hogg, 10 Johnny Sexton, 9 Conor Murray; 8 Billy Vunipola, 7 Sam Warburton, 6 Sean O'Brien, 5 Iain Henderson, 4 Maro Itoje, 3 Tadhg Furling, 2 Rory Best, 1 Jack McGrath.
@Margin_Walker said in B&I Lions 2017:
Knew that Neil Francis would be the pundit in question before opening it. Luckily his team is more even handed..
The former Ireland forward also picked his test team to face the All Blacks, which featured nine Irishmen: 15 Rob Kearney, 14 George North, 13 Jonathan Joseph, 12 Robbie Henshaw, 11 Stuart Hogg, 10 Johnny Sexton, 9 Conor Murray; 8 Billy Vunipola, 7 Sam Warburton, 6 Sean O'Brien, 5 Iain Henderson, 4 Maro Itoje, 3 Tadhg Furling, 2 Rory Best, 1 Jack McGrath.The problem for the Lions is that, apart from Kearney, it's hardly a controversial selection that Francis has picked there. All of those Irish players have genuine claims. So it is meritorious, but it's core still got comfortably beat by the All Blacks when they decided to turn up in Dublin.
The Lions will have to be better than Ireland. Forget about Chicago. It will come down to how good England really are. They need to pound their 6N opponents and then go on to form the heart of the Lions. If not it will be 3 zip again.
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@Margin_Walker said in B&I Lions 2017:
Knew that Neil Francis would be the pundit in question before opening it. Luckily his team is more even handed..
The former Ireland forward also picked his test team to face the All Blacks, which featured nine Irishmen: 15 Rob Kearney, 14 George North, 13 Jonathan Joseph, 12 Robbie Henshaw, 11 Stuart Hogg, 10 Johnny Sexton, 9 Conor Murray; 8 Billy Vunipola, 7 Sam Warburton, 6 Sean O'Brien, 5 Iain Henderson, 4 Maro Itoje, 3 Tadhg Furling, 2 Rory Best, 1 Jack McGrath.The problem for the Lions is that, apart from Kearney, it's hardly a controversial selection that Francis has picked there. All of those Irish players have genuine claims. So it is meritorious, but it's core still got comfortably beat by the All Blacks when they decided to turn up in Dublin.
The Lions will have to be better than Ireland. Forget about Chicago. It will come down to how good England really are. They need to pound their 6N opponents and then go on to form the heart of the Lions. If not it will be 3 zip again.
For sure, but then we know from the start that the ABs are rightly big favourites, especially over three games. As you say the 6N will have a huge impact on selection. For what it's worth, I like Henderson, but I think he needs a good 6N to get on the plane, let alone the 15 for the first test. Lock is probably where the Lions are strongest, with hooker probably the weakest imo.
I also see Sexton struggling to make it, as he seems to be made of glass these days. The tour will very heavy attrition wise before we even get to the first test and he's certainly not the most durable player likely to be heading down there.
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For sure, but then we know from the start that the ABs are rightly big favourites, especially over three games. As you say the 6N will have a huge impact on selection. For what it's worth, I like Henderson, but I think he needs a good 6N to get on the plane, let alone the 15 for the first test. Lock is probably where the Lions are strongest, with hooker probably the weakest imo.
I also see Sexton struggling to make it, as he seems to be made of glass these days. The tour will very heavy attrition wise before we even get to the first test and he's certainly not the most durable player likely to be heading down there.
@Margin_Walker BILs wise, sexton is our stand out 10. He's been there, done that and has the pedigree. If fit he will be the starting 10 bar some serious up-kick from elsewhere. Yeah, he's injury prone but let's see how this in=s managed over the next few months.
Hooker we have some good options, though none in the same mould as Coles, bu we will be competitive and have depth. This is not a worry for me. The back row is an area that while we have individuals, I'm not sure we yet have a balance to compete. However the biggest problem I feel is that we are likely to be out-coached.
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@Margin_Walker BILs wise, sexton is our stand out 10. He's been there, done that and has the pedigree. If fit he will be the starting 10 bar some serious up-kick from elsewhere. Yeah, he's injury prone but let's see how this in=s managed over the next few months.
Hooker we have some good options, though none in the same mould as Coles, bu we will be competitive and have depth. This is not a worry for me. The back row is an area that while we have individuals, I'm not sure we yet have a balance to compete. However the biggest problem I feel is that we are likely to be out-coached.
I think the back row has real punch off the bench, start Vunipola, sub on Falatau for example. The way Haskell played v Aussie has huge impact value.
Agree re Sexton, he's been oustanding, but I don't expect him to be fit for the 2nd & 3rd tests. And maybe not the 1st.
George North has been stood down again this week after getting the all clear but then he saw the doctor midweek & they found that his head, is, as expected, not quite up to being used to tackle 16 stone blokes in the thigh.
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From Planet Rugby - 'Lions watch'
With the Champions Cup group stages over and on the eve of the Six Nations, now is the time to check who is making the plane to New Zealand for the Lions tour.
In a couple of weeks we’ll return to the laboratory to chart who has improved their chances and who has slipped down the pecking order, doing our best to help Warren Gatland settle on who should make his squad.
If a superstar player is missing, that is likely down to a major injury or suspension rather than preference. And matching the 2013 squad, we have gone with 16 backs and 21 forwards.
Your feedback matters in this process, so let us know your thoughts in the comments below.
FULL-BACKS
Pack that suitcase: No change in the frontrunner here with Glasgow Warriors’ star Stuart Hogg still leading the way and set for a big Six Nations tournament. Liam Williams impressed for the Scarlets in the Champions Cup keeping him in contention, but is Leigh Halfpenny in danger? As good a goalkicker as Halfpenny is, he needs a big Six Nations with the following players under the spotlight over the next few weeks…
On standby: …such as Mike Brown and Rob Kearney. Brown has quietly impressed for Harlequins and remains England’s number one full-back going into the Six Nations.
Best make other plans: Alex Goode, Tiernan O’Halloran
WINGS
Pack that suitcase: Plenty of change on the wings. Tommy Seymour narrowly missed out in our last edition but now has to make the plane, and maybe even start in New Zealand after his recent efforts for the Warriors. Simon Zebo as well still makes the cut, and even with his recent hamstring injury Anthony Watson has looked good on his return from the jaw injury that kept him out of the November Tests. What about the fourth slot? George North’s concussion issues dominated the headlines since our first Lions watch and he needs a big Six Nations, but the class is still there.
On standby: A slip down the pecking order for Jonny May due to Seymour’s form while Tommy Bowe desperately needs minutes on the field. Jack Nowell has sparkled for Exeter and looks best placed out of this trio to crack his way into the category above.
Best make other plans: Alex Cuthbert, Marland Yarde, Andrew Trimble
CENTRES
Pack that suitcase: A slight change of approach here. Jonathan Joseph and Robbie Henshaw stay put but out go Owen Farrell (we’ll explain) and Jonathan Davies. Promoted are the in-form Scott Williams, whose efforts for the Scarlets have really caught the eye to the point that Davies has been left on the bench. And we can’t ignore Alex Dunbar either, another of those Glasgow backs currently at the top of their game.
On standby: Garry Ringrose and Huw Jones look poised for a breakout Six Nations but the starting Test combination from 2013 in Jamie Roberts and Jonathan Davies have a lot of work to do.
Best make other plans: Henry Slade, Jared Payne, Elliot Daly, Rory Scannell
FLY-HALVES
Pack that suitcase: The form of Williams and Dunbar means Owen Farrell goes as a fly-half – his day job with Saracens – but who else should be the other number ten? The answer for now, his lack of a match-winning drop goal aside against Munster, is Scotland’s Finn Russell, who is playing with a real swagger in recent weeks.
On standby: George Ford’s goalkicking is a problem here but he is the next in line just ahead of Paddy Jackson. Fitness continues to be an issue for Jonathan Sexton, and what about Dan Biggar too? So much to choose from here.
Best make other plans: Joey Carbery, Sam Davies, Duncan Weir, Danny Cipriani
SCRUM-HALVES
Pack that suitcase: No change here with Conor Murray the clear starter but Leicester’s disastrous form has certainly dented Ben Youngs’ claims, although he will start for England in the Six Nations. Greig Laidlaw still seems like the perfect midweek captain but his place may come under threat as the Six Nations progresses.
On standby: Gareth Davies is pushing Rhys Webb for Wales while Glasgow’s Henry Pyrgos also deserves to be considered.
Best make other plans: Ali Price, Kieran Marmion, Luke McGrath
NUMBER EIGHTS
Pack that suitcase: Injuries have kept Billy Vunipola and Taulupe Faletau sidelined, with Vunipola missing the Six Nations, but bar an exceptional Six Nations from Jamie Heaslip any change here still seems unlikely.
On standby: Heaslip’s form was good recently for Leinster in Europe and he had a fantastic November for Ireland, while he also offers lots of experience. Nathan Hughes meanwhile will be under the spotlight replacing Vunipola throughout the upcoming Six Nations. Ross Moriarty also is on the radar.
Best make other plans: Josh Strauss, Ryan Wilson, Ben Morgan
FLANKERS
Pack that suitcase: Justin Tipuric and CJ Stander will certainly tour, but injuries elsewhere have led to this section being re-examined. Tipuric by the way is yet to miss a tackle for the Ospreys or Wales since the last Six Nations, a phenomenal record. Sam Warburton is no longer Wales captain and therefore unlikely to lead the Lions either, which means his selection will depend solely on performances. We’re expecting a response. That leaves two open slots. Chris Robshaw’s injury has come at the worst time while Sean O’Brien, much like Sexton, needs to stay consistently fit. For now we’re going with Josh van der Flier in that fifth spot.
On standby: Tom Wood is now vital for England in the Six Nations and could push his case, with James Haskell still on the comeback trail. Peter O’Mahony it has to be said is not far away either, while John Hardie returns to action this weekend. Robshaw’s Six Nations-ending injury feels like a hammerblow to his hopes.
Best make other plans: Thomas Young, Teimana Harrison, Hamish Watson
LOCKS
Pack that suitcase: Two names are leading the way for the Lions Test lock spots on current form in Jonny Gray and potential captain Alun Wyn Jones. Maro Itoje is right up there alongside them and can show off his abilities as a blindside flanker this weekend against France. For the other two spaces at lock there are plenty of candidates. Devin Toner and George Kruis hang on for now, but it is a tight race.
On standby: Luke Charteris is a favourite of Gatland’s so should be considered, while Jake Ball has arguably been the form lock in Wales. Joe Launchbury’s power and good form for Wasps might sway the argument and Courtney Lawes too is back to his best. Meanwhile, Tim Swinson has been outstanding for Glasgow of late and is pushing hard for more starts for Scotland.
Best make other plans: Richie Gray, Donnacha Ryan, Iain Henderson
PROPS
Pack that suitcase: Mako Vunipola‘s injury is a setback but he would still be our starter narrowly over Jack McGrath, while Tadgh Furlong is in pole position at tighthead. Zander Fagerson is now the Scottish frontrunner after WP Nel’s neck injury, with Dan Cole also on the plane. That leaves a loosehead spot up for grabs… for now it belongs to Joe Marler.
On standby: Nel will be considered but the severity of his neck surgery is yet to be revealed. Cian Healy remains a good option while Rob Evans, benched for the Six Nations opener with Italy, and Samson Lee have work to do.
Best make other plans: Nicky Smith, Tomas Francis, Kyle Sinckler
HOOKERS
Pack that suitcase: Doubts continue to linger over the lineout work of Rory Best while Dylan Hartley pretty much defines the saying “not everyone’s cup of tea”. But, they remain the two frontrunners. Who then gets the nod as the third hooker? Ken Owens for now.
On standby: Jamie George and Ross Ford will be waiting by the phone but don’t rule out Niall Scannell either, the Munsterman who makes his Ireland debut this weekend.
Best make other plans: Sean Cronin, Fraser Brown, Scott Baldwin, Luke Cowan-Dickie
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The coaching team for the New Zealand Provincial Barbarians team for the Lions tour has been announced:
Head coach: Clayton McMillan (Bay of Plenty)
Assistant coaches: Roger Randle (Waikato) and Joe Maddock (Canterbury)
Manager: Chris Back (Wanganui)
Support staff: Jed Smethurst (Physio), Tim Hurst (Strength & Conditioning) and Conlin Locke (Doctor) (all Northland)They get one week of preparation with the players ... :thinking:
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by all accounts there will be a full house for that match, only GA tickets available, so hopefully upto 20k jammed into Okara again.
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by all accounts there will be a full house for that match, only GA tickets available, so hopefully upto 20k jammed into Okara again.
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@taniwharugby should be more than twenty surely. I'll be there with the wider whanau and other hangers on. Festival of rugby... Should be great
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So are we assuming that the NZ Provincial Barbarians team will be comprised of NPC players not playing Super rugby?
I'll be interested to see the squad they announce.
@Bovidae I wondered about that as well. This is not the 'regular' NZ Barbarians squad after all, but a provincial version, although I wouldn't have a problem with Super Rugby players being selected if they are not picked by their Super team or the (Maori) ABs.
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@nzzp just going by the estimated 20k that was at the RWC matches.
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So, after a couple of rounds of Super Rugby
TJP, BB, JS, RC, ??, NMS, BS
Res: AS, AC, ID
Midfield options:
- RC + ALB
- RC + RI
- SBW + RC
- RC + MF
- SBW + ALB
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So, after a couple of rounds of Super Rugby
TJP, BB, JS, RC, ??, NMS, BS
Res: AS, AC, ID
Midfield options:
- RC + ALB
- RC + RI
- SBW + RC
- RC + MF
- SBW + ALB
@Billy-Tell ALB was all class last year, surely he gets first crack...unless SBW sets the world on-fire when he fronts for the Blues?
BB combo with RC super important because they just looked to "get" each other and tbh, SBW has only ever looked amazeballs outside Aaron Cruden -
So, after a couple of rounds of Super Rugby
TJP, BB, JS, RC, ??, NMS, BS
Res: AS, AC, ID
Midfield options:
- RC + ALB
- RC + RI
- SBW + RC
- RC + MF
- SBW + ALB
Dagg on the right wing and ALB at centre. Conservative option to start with. Without much lead in the combinations could be rusty and need to minimise errors against the Lions pressure brand of rugby.
Can change it up for the 2nd test. It's a template which worked in 2005, would work again.
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We would want to present the Lions things they have not experienced before to throw them off their stride. This is where a player like NMS comes in. Evasion skills they have not had to defend against in the 6N. Dagg is great experience to have in the last half hour.
Aren't we getting a bit cocky to play them with only our backline though?
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I find it premature to even consider SBW in the starting line-up. He hasn't played XVs for more than a year; in 2016, he has had two serious injuries (knee and ankle) that kept him from playing, and he is over 30 years old. He has never been the incumbent 12 either. Crotty to start at least the first Lions game.
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I find it premature to even consider SBW in the starting line-up. He hasn't played XVs for more than a year; in 2016, he has had two serious injuries (knee and ankle) that kept him from playing, and he is over 30 years old. He has never been the incumbent 12 either. Crotty to start at least the first Lions game.
@Stargazer while I dont think he is an automatic, the coaches have always given him a shot when hes been fit, so if fit, he will be in the mix, although likely a bench option, but who knows.
Crotty-ALB would be the first option IMO
