B&I Lions 2017
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I think the issue with Hartley is they see him as a good player if he's starting, but not a good tourist as 3rd choice. IE Owens or Best are ahead of him to start & George far better off the bench, so then its "would Hartley be a good 3rd string tourist?" and the feeling is no, no he wouldn't. Whereas Owens would take it OK & turn up for the dirt trackers.
A lot of Lions tours have turned to custard mid-week because the 3rd string guys are used to being the big cheese & toss their toys.
Launchbury is unlucky, but you could point to the fact that but for injuries to Kruis & Robshaw he wouldn't have started a single 6 Nations game so it sort of reverts. And in terms of the game to disrupt the AB's Lawes probably showed more for England in the 6 Nations.
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@raznomore I'd say just not quite good enough anymore, plus all the disciplinary baggage.
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On Hartley I don't think that's the case at all. By all accounts he's a good bloke off the pitch, humble etc. He'd be absolutely fine as a dirt tracker, can't remember him moaning too much about periods of non selection. Even for Northampton where he's been out of favour at various points.
For me, he's not going because he's not one of the three best hookers in Britain and Ireland at the moment. He starts for England because he's captain and there's not a huge amount of leadership experience. That's less of an issue with this squad
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@KiwiMurph said in B&I Lions 2017:
So who would be the favourite to captain the midweekers?
Best, Jones and O'Mahony are captains. Maybe one of these three.
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@Pot-Hale said in B&I Lions 2017:
@KiwiMurph said in B&I Lions 2017:
So who would be the favourite to captain the midweekers?
Best, Jones and O'Mahony are captains. Maybe one of these three.
Not that I think you're wrong but Best and Jones have been touted by many as test starters.
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@Catogrande I'd have O'Mahony in the Test XV. All 3 of those would be either starting or on the bench for me.
Ben Young has captained Leicester before I think. Could be an option? We're actually quite light on midweek leaders.
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Are either of the Irish locks known as good leaders? Both very good players likely to be victims of the depth in that position.
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@SimonAdd_2 O'Mahoney is certainly good enough but it is a position of great depth. You could easily make a case for SOB, Warburton, Stander, itoje, Henderson or Moriarty over O'Mahoney as a 6.
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@SimonAdd_2 said in B&I Lions 2017:
Are either of the Irish locks known as good leaders? Both very good players likely to be victims of the depth in that position.
Only one lock in Henderson and not a leader in my view.
O'Mahony would be a great midweek leader. Gnarly, snarly, tough, perma-Munster bitter, uncompromising and slightly mad.
Oh and he can play rugby too, apparently.
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Oops!
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@Pot-Hale
There's going to be some shut for that. -
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@booboo said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Pot-Hale said in B&I Lions 2017:
Oops!
Was always the British Lions
It was the British Isles actually. Then, they got tagged as the Lions by some journos back in the 40s/50s and were dubbed the British Lions. Then the Irish boys said something along the lines of 'feck this for a haircut, I'm not standing for God Save the Queen again before a Lions match, change the feckin name to reflect the two countries or we're staying home with mammy" so they did, and they all lived happily ever after.
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IRFU tweeted BT Sport and England Rugby with something along the lines of " I don't think you've quite got the hang of Irish Rugby yet there lads"
After a short silence whilst BT Sport graphic designers studied their geography books, consulted their atlases, read up on recent Irish history, talked to David Attenborough, they managed to find the missing 26 counties and add them back in.
Phew! Crisis averted.
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@MN5 Genuine question. How many Scots do you think have been hard done by?
I honestly can't name too many.
W P Nel - dunno how his injury situation is though - cough, Warburton, cough.
Gray bros - Lock is a position of strength and I think they've suffered the backlash of the England match.
Russell - I would have taken him over Biggar and would have it a close call between him and Ford.Anyone else?
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@Catogrande said in B&I Lions 2017:
@MN5 Genuine question. How many Scots do you think have been hard done by?
I honestly can't name too many.
W P Nel - dunno how his injury situation is though - cough, Warburton, cough.
Gray bros - Lock is a position of strength and I think they've suffered the backlash of the England match.
Russell - I would have taken him over Biggar and would have it a close call between him and Ford.Anyone else?
Watson, Laidlaw and Dunbar were probably names mentioned. Even Visser.
I reckon 6-7 woulda been realistic. They beat both Ireland and Wales this year afterall.
All the butthurt fans are thrilled in one sense though cos it means the squad to Australia will be strong.
