BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?)

Stargazer

Second-five Williams is a virtual certainty to start at No12 ...

I don't even think that's true. He had a very mixed game against Samoa. His defence is a problem. He can be good at offloading on attack, but that counts for nothing if he can't make his tackles. It will all depend on how things go during training, their game plan and how fit Crotty is, who hasn't been out for that long at all. I'd say all 12-13 combinations are still open.

pakman

@Stargazer said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):

@taniwharugby
Second-five Williams is a virtual certainty to start at No12 ...
I don't even think that's true. He had a very mixed game against Samoa. His defence is a problem. He can be good at offloading on attack, but that counts for nothing if he can't make his tackles. It will all depend on how things go during training, their game plan and how fit Crotty is, who hasn't been out for that long at all. I'd say all 12-13 combinations are still open.

I don't see SBW at 13. In terms of a first exposure to the Lions rush there is a case for Crotty at 12 to be BB's extra pair of eyes, a combo which works well. What is lost is the crash ball, hence the joy at Laumape. Could be compensated for by Bus standing in a type of dual 12 position and running a hard line. If Crotty on bench and ABs get ten or more up I expect him to see game time late in second half.

Bones

I really don't see any evidence of Williams being better at "crash" ball than Crotty. Myth.

MN5

@Bones said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):

I really don't see any evidence of Williams being better at "crash" ball than Crotty. Myth.

He's SBW. He's the greatest sportsman to play any kind of sports. Get with the picture bro.

taniwharugby

@Bones yeah was interesting the article infers SBW is the lock for 12, and Crotty/ALB at 13, whereas IMO, 12/13 pick themselves if one is over his rib injury...Crotty/ALB

Bones

@MN5 said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):

@Bones said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):

I really don't see any evidence of Williams being better at "crash" ball than Crotty. Myth.

He's SBW. He's the greatest sportsman to play any kind of sports. Get with the picture bro.

Cheers bro. No cricket/movie/music threads?

MN5

@Bones said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):

@MN5 said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):

@Bones said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):

I really don't see any evidence of Williams being better at "crash" ball than Crotty. Myth.

He's SBW. He's the greatest sportsman to play any kind of sports. Get with the picture bro.

Cheers bro. No cricket/movie/music threads?

Or Craft beer threads. Fuck the fern sux

No Quarter

I disagree with just about everything in that article. I think 12 is a contest between Crotty and SBW, with ALB a lock. And I'd be very surprised if they took the unproven Naholo over Dagg for the first test, given Dagg's superior positional play, work under the high ball and kicking game.

gt12

@No-Quarter said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):

I disagree with just about everything in that article. I think 12 is a contest between Crotty and SBW, with ALB a lock. And I'd be very surprised if they took the unproven Naholo over Dagg for the first test, given Dagg's superior positional play, work under the high ball and kicking game.

Didn't even read it, but I agree with you

reprobate

in my opinion crotty has the best defence of the 3, and makes the least errors, so he is in. SBW easily the most errors, so he's out: ALB's offloading game is as good, and he fucks up less.
the best rugby SBW ever played was at the chiefs where he was just running hard and straight and focusing on retaining possession - if offloads came they came. right now he's playing more like he was at the crusaders, looking to do too much every time and coughing the ball up too often. should be an easy fix, but i'd like to see it happen before picking him.

gt12

@reprobate

The best SBW played was when he was running off Cruden's shoulder. That's one reason to put him on the bench.

Right now, I'd probably start him though. It's risky, but I think he played great for the Blues. Bring that for the ABs and we're in good shape.

kiwiinmelb

This test is shaping as a classic ,
I think it's fair to say now we have a genuine challenge on our hands , the lions have a bit of grit about them

antipodean

@kiwiinmelb said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):

This test is shaping as a classic ,
I think it's fair to say now we have a genuine challenge on our hands , the lions have a bit of grit about them

Quality players across the field who now have time together to cement a gameplan they're executing exceptionally well.

This series is promising to be excellent.

Billy Tell

My fellow forum users. Please take a moment to remember this day, 20th June 1987

pukunui

@reprobate said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):

in my opinion crotty has the best defence of the 3, and makes the least errors, so he is in. SBW easily the most errors, so he's out: ALB's offloading game is as good, and he fucks up less.
the best rugby SBW ever played was at the chiefs where he was just running hard and straight and focusing on retaining possession - if offloads came they came. right now he's playing more like he was at the crusaders, looking to do too much every time and coughing the ball up too often. should be an easy fix, but i'd like to see it happen before picking him.

Agree with all this. SBW is a good player when he is performing but has had one good game since the World cup. If Crotty is good to go then i would have him at 12 and ALB at 13.

pukunui

@Billy-Tell said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):

My fellow forum users. Please take a moment to remember this day, 20th June 1987

I was only 2. So was SBW (just to keep it on topic)

Crucial

@kiwiinmelb said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):

This test is shaping as a classic ,
I think it's fair to say now we have a genuine challenge on our hands , the lions have a bit of grit about them

They certainly do except that it is a high risk gameplan they are following.
Obviously not high risk in the manner that they play but pinning your game on being perfect in defence while accumulating slowly runs a big risk of putting you in a bad position if you get behind on the scoreboard. It works well against second string super rugby sides that can't match the power for 80 but the ABs will absorb and repel then pounce on any sniff of a chance.

I'm not saying that it will be easy, I expect a close game but the whole AB game for a few years now has been to marry that same toughness in close and on D with an ability to switch in blink of an eye to the type of attack that the BIL will have trouble with.

Catogrande

@Crucial I fear you're right mate. We have seen a number of sides bring good defence v NZ and it can work to a degree but there have only been a limited number of times that it has proved ultimately successful.

Most NH Ferners have been saying all along that if the Lions are to succeed they will have to be able to score tries. We might get one win just on a smothering defence but not a three match series. We have to be able to switch from D to attack in an instant and we have shown little inclination to do that let alone ability.

Anyway back on topic. Who has furthered their case for the Lions after the Maori and Chiefs games?

The shadow test side (v Maori) mostly performed like the first stringers. The front row went well save Furlong's brainfart. I did like him getting schooled in ruck law from the fullback, I just wished he'd returned the favour after the full back dropped a high ball.

I feel Itoje did enough to keep AWJ on the bench. Kruis nailed on. Likewise SOB did enough to keep Warburton on the bench. Murray is nailed at 9. 10 is a conundrum. Farrell to my mind HAS to play but will it be at 10 or 12? I can see the merit of him playing outside Sexton (who has improved considerably) but it is a late call to change your game plan, so I feel the 12 & 13 combo we saw v the Maori will continue. Watson on one wing and likely North on the other but on form I'd go with Daly. If Farrell plays then I would consider Williams at full back but if no Farrell then Halfpenny has to play.

Guys that put their hands up v the Chiefs - Daly and Williams, possibly Lawes but I see him as fourth choice lock. Improvers, Henderson, Nowell, Haskell. Gone backwards, Laidlaw, Best, Marler (FFS sake, keep your hands in your pockets), Seymour.

The mystery man to me on tour so far is Tipuric. I reckon he could be the bloke to make a difference, but he won't get the chance.

MiketheSnow

@Catogrande said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):

@Crucial I fear you're right mate. We have seen a number of sides bring good defence v NZ and it can work to a degree but there have only been a limited number of times that it has proved ultimately successful.

Most NH Ferners have been saying all along that if the Lions are to succeed they will have to be able to score tries. We might get one win just on a smothering defence but not a three match series. We have to be able to switch from D to attack in an instant and we have shown little inclination to do that let alone ability.

Anyway back on topic. Who has furthered their case for the Lions after the Maori and Chiefs games?

The shadow test side (v Maori) mostly performed like the first stringers. The front row went well save Furlong's brainfart. I did like him getting schooled in ruck law from the fullback, I just wished he'd returned the favour after the full back dropped a high ball.

I feel Itoje did enough to keep AWJ on the bench. Kruis nailed on. Likewise SOB did enough to keep Warburton on the bench. Murray is nailed at 9. 10 is a conundrum. Farrell to my mind HAS to play but will it be at 10 or 12? I can see the merit of him playing outside Sexton (who has improved considerably) but it is a late call to change your game plan, so I feel the 12 & 13 combo we saw v the Maori will continue. Watson on one wing and likely North on the other but on form I'd go with Daly. If Farrell plays then I would consider Williams at full back but if no Farrell then Halfpenny has to play.

Guys that put their hands up v the Chiefs - Daly and Williams, possibly Lawes but I see him as fourth choice lock. Improvers, Henderson, Nowell, Haskell. Gone backwards, Laidlaw, Best, Marler (FFS sake, keep your hands in your pockets), Seymour.

The mystery man to me on tour so far is Tipuric. I reckon he could be the bloke to make a difference, but he won't get the chance.

Agree with most of that.

Halfpenny, Watson, Davies, Te'o, Daly, Farrell, Murray
Vunipola, George, Furlong, Kruis, Itoje, O'Mahoney, O'Brien, Faletau

But Gatland will pick North

Owens, Sinckler, McGrath, AWJ, Warburton
Webb, Sexton and Daly

Think Gatland will try to beat NZ the way he thinks h knows how. If that's unsuccessful, then expect to see a different style and team makeup for 2nd Test

MiketheSnow

Agree about Tipuric.
He'll be like Alan Bateman. Not played until it's too late, and then the uninitiated will say 'where's he been when we needed him?'

The Silver Fern

BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?)